Topic: | ARDOR | Scalable Blockchain-as-a-Service Platform | Proof of Stake - page 187. (Read 395841 times)

I didnt mean that accountants and tax consultants will be made obsolete. I was just talking about the costs of making sure that account x holds amount y of token z. Take loyalty tokens as an example.

Here too loyalty tokens would be an example of a business form that works without anonymity and can benefit from the Ardor design. If you want anonymity combined with the possibility of a refund you would need an escrow.

Your first answer is quite easily countered: Bookeeping -and by that a type of bookkeeping that require specific legal FORMS-, is IMPOSED by the laws of every country. It isn't a private thing, like you imply. You have to present those filled forms and make formal declarations every quarter. That's separately and beyond the normal payroll that, in large companies, requires full departments to handle. I don't see how a child chain will have a positive impact given that, even if it were to simplify some tasks, scores of people would still be necessary to be able to present the quarterly results to the corresponding authorities. Maybe I am too close minded but it seems to me you are more referring to the ledger Al Capone had than to the payroll of, say, IBM, I don't know...

With respect to the buyer and seller, I thought the whole point of it was, precisely, to keep the anonymity on both ends otherwise why would them be in any way benefitial for any of them?

So people who want to sell NXT deserve to be stolen from? Exchanges deserve to keep the millions of ARDR tokens they get from the software for all those millions of NXT in sell orders? We are probably talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here. I still hope that exchanges understand that it is their responsibility to distribute ARDR tokens correctly to all of their clients, though.

Well the whole enchilada at this point is precisely debating -or trolling, if you prefer- the common sense merits of a projects and the possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world. Now, from that perspective, can you tell me again what would be the advantage of a bank using this, as oppose of the private networks they already use? will they eliminate one step in the chain of events from the window to the ledger? I just can't see it, sorry. How will security be improved -with respect to what the now have-, by using a "master network" (the Ardor main one) they have no control whatsoever over and that, regardless whatever it is pretended here or anywhere, is not just susceptible but even prone to outside and successful attacks? Please lets not forget that about a year or so NXT was successfully attacked (and robbed). How on earth is ANY mainstream enterprise ever going to trust their security -and funds- to a system that is constantly the object of thefts and security violation, even in the case of the top of the line, cutting edge technology (arguably), like ETH? How can a responsible, successful, CEO be convinced any of this is actually, practically, viable?

The answer that time will tell is simply not good enough. Enough time and we will all be bald. And dead.

The big advantage of child chains is that you dont have to take care of bookkeeping yourself anymore. This task is outsourced to ARDR stakers. Bookkeeping usually produces costs (including security costs) and therefore reduces profits. If the cost for paying ARDR stakers is lower than doing the bookkeping yourself, there is a clear benefit.


In your examples you assume that a token is used as medium of exchange between the seller and the buyer of a good. Why should the seller not be able to give back the token to the buyer, when the buyer is not satisfied with the product? The trade will happen under a certain legislation. If the buyer knows the identity of the seller he can just take legal action. If the seller is a machine the buyer should know exactly what he gets, because a machine cant do otherwise than it is programmed. But even in this case a refund would be possible - by the creator of the child chain. If he is a machine too, well, then the buyer doesnt expect a refund possibility in the first place. Maybe I am even discriminating machines by implying they are not capable of doing a refund...

What Smart Transactions in Ardor mean is just that the creator of a child chain can determine which ones of a predetermined set of transaction types will be possible in his chain. I dont see how this makes refunds impossible.

But you're not running a regular wallet when you use exchanges. That is custom code written by the exchange to display your balance. How can you expect the NXT foundation to write custom code for each exchange to display a projected Ardor distribution? No where is it stated that a "preview" of how much to expect is a requirement for a wallet, only that there will be a distribution that you will receive. The information needed to calculate the amount is widely posted everywhere for your current NXT holdings. If you want the preview functionality, then hold your NXT in a web or desktop wallet and not on an exchange. That is the official stance of the NXT foundation anyways, so I take that as keeping my funds by any other means is a risk. So if I want to guarantee my funds, I need to be holding them in a personal wallet and not on an exchange. I mean if you have your NXT posted up for sale, clearly you don't believe in the platform and are looking to exit, so why would you care about not receiving any Ardor tokens, unless you just want to dump to make a quick buck? After all the NXT is still needed to acquire the coins from the first child chain, so how can you expect to receive coins for that if you're selling them now?


From what I gather from everything, child chains represent a way for transactions and information to become specific to a particular organization. Whatever happens on one chain doesn't affect the other chains, and if a hack/fat finger/data entry error is made, only the child chain would need to fork to correct the issue vs the entire chain. Take the recent DAO smart contract exploit that took place on the ETH network. They had to fork the entire network in order to correct an issue with a faulty contract. Think of the ETH pools and solo miners as businesses that have adopted the "Smart Contracts" philosophy and have incorporated it into your infrastructure. Companies can spend millions to ensure they execute sound contracts, but joe schmoe off the street with enough programming language knowledge can create a smart contract with honest intentions, but lose millions in investors money. Programmers aren't perfect as much as we would like them to be, so if and when errors are made, would you want to fork an entire network and educate all those connected on how to upgrade, or only fork the portion of the network that contains the error? That to me is the benefit of child chains. As long as the core network remains in tack and separate from the core transactions of the child chains, then company A is safeguarded from the actions of company B. This also has the side effect of reducing bloat on the main chain so processing time can be focused on transactions and not data from every single user. Ardor will make use of both lite (processes transactions) and archive (maintains child chain data) nodes to secure the network. This allows for ease of entry to run a network node so that anybody can do it and the more that do, the stronger the network becomes.

Secondly Ardor isn't smart contracts they're smart transactions. If you read through this thread you would have seen the official stance on this matter. Here it is:


Banks have been a private system for years, so no one thinks that they will jump on a public chain where they have no control over security. I fully expect banks to adopt the ARDOR system, but it will most likely be in a private chain scenario where they create child chains for each branch so they can track the transactions independently in their own ledgers. Where ARDOR and supporters of the public chain will benefit from is the "publicity" from the banks making it known that NXT/Ardor technology is powering their operation. So banks removed from the equation, I think brokerage houses, mutual funds and other Wall Street type FinTech companies are more likely to use this technology, because it allows for the quick and fast transfer of funds from one account to another. A company creates their own token/child chain. Client comes in with a portfolio of X dollars and buys the tokens from the firm which are sold of any denomination of currency that the firm prefers. This allows the clients money to be moved around in a matter of seconds vs days that it could potentially take. I know for one when I sell a stock, there's a 3 day window before I can have my funds in hand to use. Wouldn't it be nice to cut this from 3 days to a day? The only reason it would take a day is determined how long it takes you to make it to the bank. This can be cut down even further if the bank is privately using the NXT/Ardor blockchain so the transaction can be handed from one chain to another, and the balance is almost immediately available on your debit card to use for whatever you need it for.

This is a portion of how I see NXT/Ardor being utilized in the wild. If you're just trolling I'm sure you will find some fault with what I've said, but at the end of the day the only thing that will really matter is the adoption once Ardor is released. Anything and everything can be said both positive and negative, but once the rubber meets the road, the proof one way or another will be in black and white and hard facts for everyone to see.

Thank you for the (failed) attempt at explaining these two things in layman's terms. The failed one is in pretending that "child chains" are somehow the answer that every business is looking for. I don't see anyone looking for these anywhere. Why would they? What is the pragmatic benefit of -let's say a bank, since you mention them- in having ready-made child chains? What's the advantage of them over, for instance, a data base? What other "key business problems" are or will be solved by child chains?

Now, as for the smart contracts... there's no way, no way in hell any bank will ever use a decentralized (as they are by definition) smart contract. For anything. Or (practically) any business at all. OK, look, the mother lode of the western economy, the KEY factor of its successes, all of them, is PRECISELY the possibility anyone has to return and be refunded when the purchase something they are not satisfied with when they try it. From Amazon -primary example- to practically anyone else -including food chains- this is the key base of their success. A Smart Contract, since it would be irreversible, has no place in such economy. At least no place that I can see from the real world perspective. But what do I know, right?

Ador will be also given out to NXT holdings in Poloniex?

I think the big draw is child chains, combined with Smart Transactions. Let's talk about both.

Child chains let anyone build their blockchain on years of top blockchain talent. That removes a huge hurdle to entry and let's people focus on biz development.

That's exactly what the [Suspicious link removed]munity needs. We've got the tech. We don't have the infrastructure.

Ardor makes it easy to build those businesses. The infrastructure will be done. All you'll have to do is launch your project.

Then Smart Transactions. Every Bank worth its salt is looking for template smart contracts to make them feasible for real business use.

Nxt already has them finished, and they're going to Ardor. All they're waiting for is a few case studies, which are in the works. Imagine the success when those case studies go public and coders see there's a better way to use Smart Contracts. And more importantly, when bankers see them!

There's lots of other things, but what matters is how these are useful for business. That's how Ardor will compete.

Ardor solves key business problems and opens the field to an exponentially larger group of savvy entrepreneurs and coders.

And really, that's what it's all about. Finally taking all this amazing R & D done in the [Suspicious link removed]munity, particularly the Nxt community, and taking them to the world. One business at a time.

Now, what will NEXT 2.0 have that can compete?

 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/280186

Granted it is a bit more complex but the MECHANICALS should have been distributed already and everyone should be having the same estimations that in the regular wallets... because, you DO know they are just regular wallets at the exchanges, right? I don't see how the little bit of more complexity in the distribution and estimations is a problem. The SNAPSHOTS are happening on those wallets (or the main wallet at least) just like in the rest of the wallets, so it is not a very complex problem to provide that by-the-hour- estimation to everyone holding NXT wherever they are holding it.

The distribution doesn't happen until Oct, so there's still plenty of time for the Devs to work this out. The ARDR in wallets is just an estimation of what to expect when distribution finally happens and is easier to apply the distribution model to than exchanges where there are many moving parts that need to be considered.

As per Richie Lai (Bittrex), regarding distribution of ARDR: "We are waiting for NXT to provide us with the MECHANICALS to proceed with the distribution..."

So, what's up devs? Distribution of ARDR, just like in the wallets, should have already been occurring in the exchanges. I figure a lawsuit would be in order, of course. At Bittrex alone, there are more than 8 million NXT in hundreds of accounts.

Fantastic to see so many new people showing interest in Nxt/Ardor

Joined last week, great people in there too for new users to the platform. After a week working with the core wallet I'm extremely impressed and I think NXT now is amazing, so Ardor should prove to be truly astonishing on launch.

The buy walls are just crazy

All we can say for sure right now is that the Nxt Foundation is in talks with dutch banks. But possible that banks like Barclay will watch out for Nxt's Smart Transactions as an easier and more secure way of using distributed ledger tech than Ethereum's Smart Contracts.


People who hold their NXT in active sell orders will consider legal action, if they dont get their ARDR tokens.

Did you know that you can mine NXT in the Lucky node lottery project?
Follow instructions in the link and turn your laptop into a money making machine. You don't wear off your computer, the computational requirements are so low, some people set it up on a solar powered Raspberry Pi.
Run it 24/7 or as often as you can while you work or play. Bandwidth requirements are quite low for modern ISP plans.

Mine NXT, get ARDR.

Now it comes with 3 extra rounds at 20:00, 0:00, 4:00 UTC for the daily total of 15 rounds!

Poloniex isnt clear about it and each exchange can decide by themselves what to do.

They are helping with the snapshots. How and when they will distribute the coins can also differ per exchange.

I think this is a good project .. I Watching and buy sone Nxt