Topic: [ARDR] Nxt: Ardor - масштабируемая ChildChain-платформа - page 254. (Read 1749770 times)

damelon [8:00 PM]
Welcome to the first Slack Q&A with the Core Devs.

[8:00]
Anyone can post their questions in here and they will do their best to answer

[8:00]
I would like to request of the devs that they say which question they are answering in their answer to avoid confusion

[8:01]
The Q&A will last for an hour :simple_smile:

[8:01]
OK, shoot :simple_smile:

cryptkeeper [8:01 PM]
Hi guys! I've read about 1.8 and wondered where we lost the 2FA feature. It seemed to me that Petko was quite far with the development for this.

jean-luc [8:02 PM]
it is not a simple feature, and it required account transfer to be implemented too

[8:02]
which turned out to be really complicated

[8:02]
so, after 2.0, if really needed

cryptkeeper [8:02 PM]
Account Transfer == Panic Button?

jean-luc [8:03 PM]
yes, in case an attacker got your password

cryptkeeper [8:03 PM]
OK, ack!

bcdev [8:04 PM]
Are you working on the project full-time, or do you have some other major sink of time [dayjob, etc]?

ludom [8:04 PM]
hi

jean-luc [8:04 PM]
I am full time
2  

riker [8:05 PM]
I'm still keeping my day job for 2-3 days a week

jabo38 [8:05 PM]
joined #general

ludom [8:06 PM]
Hi

martis [8:06 PM]
There was some roadmap for 1.8. Is 1.9 planned, and if yes, what features planed for 1.9?

jabo38 [8:06 PM]
hi everyone

jean-luc [8:06 PM]
to do an FNXT asset distribution, we would need a hardfork, so this would be 1.9

martis [8:07 PM]
so, 1.9 only for FNXT stuff?

ludom [8:07 PM]
What is the goal of the road map ? Much nxters don't understand the vision behind the announcements ?

jean-luc [8:08 PM]
there may be a few minor fixes that require hard fork too, to go into 1.9, other than that, don't know yet

altsheets [8:08 PM]
Thanks for (re)implementing the http://localhost:7876&modal=send_money_modal ... etc. - it was one of my wishes; great, thx.  
Will make it easy to link from any webpage into the local wallet.

nxter [8:08 PM]
Hi There. Is it planned somewhere in the development roadmap to enhance the asset exchange and add new features to it?

ludom [8:09 PM]
We were leader in the assets exchange but we lose our big advantage

jean-luc [8:09 PM]
anything that requires more work or a hard fork, after 2.0

[8:09]
for UI only enhancements, if riker has time...

gaycoinbummer [8:09 PM]
joined #general

websioux [8:09 PM]
hi

riker [8:10 PM]
We do have capacity for some UI features in case they make sense for 1.9. For 1.8 we are already introducing the desktop wallet which is a major enhancement which will probably breed more feature requests and ideas.

nxtswe [8:10 PM]
Hi!
There has been a few misunderstandings regarding the dividend feature and that it does not show up in the transaction list. Is there anything planned to make this more user friendly?

jean-luc [8:11 PM]
I suggested adding a more prominent "view ledger" link on the dashboard, under recent transactions

[8:11]
or even replacing the recent transactions with account ledger, or fit both

gaycoinbummer [8:11 PM]
great progress on nxt

nxtswe [8:11 PM]
sounds like a good idea to replace transactions with account ledger, that would solve it I think. thanx.

riker [8:12 PM]
The account ledger is not simple to read

jean-luc [8:12 PM]
I think one reason against that was that unconfirmed transactions would not show in account ledger

riker [8:12 PM]
The transaction list is more important for most users

jean-luc [8:12 PM]
and people expect to see them on top on the dashboard

killakem [8:12 PM]
Hi @jean-luc, @riker! I would first like to say, Thank You, for all the time and effort you guys dedicate to this project!! 2.0 is a very interesting concept indeed, I can fully understand the benefits and the effect it will have on nxt, which will of course be very positive. The main concern from people I have spoken with is assets, what protections will be in place to ensure the Asset markets don't have excessive downwards pressure from people selling assets for nxt.

altsheets [8:13 PM]
> account ledger is not simple to read
what about designing ICONS for each type of transaction on the account ledger?

riker [8:14 PM]
@killakem: I think that making predictions about asset prices a year from now is not something we can base design decisions upon. NXT 2.0 also brings some advantages to asset issuer in the form of being able to trade the same asset on multiple child chains.

jean-luc [8:15 PM]
also, such selling pressure will exist mostly before the snapshot, but after that, markets should come back to normal

riker [8:15 PM]
@altsheets: its all about priorities

jean-luc [8:16 PM]
and we have the idea of doing a continuous snapshot, over a period of even few months, to minimize market impact

ludom [8:17 PM]
When will be the snapshot?

cryptkeeper [8:17 PM]
I have another question about the 1.8 changes: one of the new features is a "Simple server side plugin framework". Sounds interesting, could you elaborate what can be done with it?

jean-luc [8:18 PM]
the poll suggested 1-4 months from now, but of course we need to get 1.8 out first and then plan the hard fork

[8:18]
so the start may be more like 2 months from now at least, since we need to allow people time before hard fork

[8:19]
the plugin framework is for doing simple things in java, without having to patch and recompile NRS every time

[8:19]
you can write your own class that does something when e.g. an account balance changes, and there are hooks to register this class with the NRS

ludom [8:20 PM]
I have a important question: how can the community help?

killakem [8:21 PM]
Thanks guys! @riker Thats a useful feature indeed, we could have a sidechain for TVE and trade the TVE asset on our sidechain as well!

riker [8:21 PM]
The community can help a lot, Wiki documentation, support site, promotion with anyone who is willing to talk to you (edited)

ludom [8:21 PM]
I have the feeling that the community is disconnected with the vision of the devs, how can we participate to the vision of future of Nxt

josenxt [8:21 PM]
Hi Devs, Thanks a lot for your job :smiley:
Do you already know how often the prunning process will take place in 2.0? I mean if it will take place everytime the blockchain reaches a certain size, or the 1st Monday of every month, or...

ludom [8:22 PM]
Much people ask me "what is the future of Nxt" and I can't anymore answer

[8:22]
Because I don't understand the roadmap

jean-luc [8:23 PM]
pruning will be configurable, just like it is now for prunable messages and cloud data, a node can decide to store everything forever

[8:23]
what the defaults should be, it is way to early to say

cryptkeeper [8:24 PM]
LOL - when the hard  disk is full, it's too late to prune :grinning: (edited)

jean-luc [8:25 PM]
one of the goals of 2.0, other than scalability, was to allow others to use the Nxt platform without necessarily using the NXT token itself, but still be a part of the same system, rather than starting their own cloned copy

nxter [8:26 PM]
Will aliases be global to all childchains?

riker [8:26 PM]
@ludom: I don't have a crystal ball, look at the blockchain usage trend https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=blockchain - usage of blockchain applications will explode soon. We need to keep in the forefront and we will find our niche
 
Google Trends - Web Search interest - Worldwide, 2004 - present
Explore Google Search trends with Google Trends.

ludom [8:27 PM]
And what is our niche ?

jean-luc [8:27 PM]
aliases, I don't think they should be global

[8:28]
but by default, when you are using the Nxt child chain, you will be seeing the aliases that exist on it

[8:28]
to query the value of an alias on another chain, you would need something like a prefix, e.g. BTC.aliasname

[8:29]
since nothing internally depends on aliases, I am not thinking about that now

riker [8:29 PM]
@ludom: I think that it can come from many different fronts AE, MS, Voting, phasing we have the best technology out there

ludom [8:29 PM]
But we are not leader

[8:30]
Because the fees are to high

riker [8:30 PM]
But we already voted about fees before 1.7 and the community decision was to leave them on 1 nxt (edited)

ludom [8:31 PM]
Yes

[8:31]
I came with a project of dedicated "voting system"

riker [8:32 PM]
Once we improve scalability we can reduce fees for the child chains

ludom [8:32 PM]
ok

come-from-beyond [8:32 PM]
joined #general

tosch [8:32 PM]
Hello guys! Thank you for the Q&A I am a bit late now and I hope I don't repeat questions. Actually I have many questions regarding childchains. And I will wait until more specs arrive. But kind of urgent for me to know how to continue with for example the mynxt.info website. How do you imagine such a service makes sense later? Taking the blockexplorer. Will I be able to display ALL childchains?

martis [8:32 PM]
can child chain creators decide on child chain fees?

cryptkeeper [8:33 PM]
I needed a while to understand the concept of Nxt 2.0, but now I think it's a great idea! :+1:
IMHO one aspect isn't yet fully explained: how the child chains get their tx included into the fNXT blocks and who must pay whom for this in which currency?

jean-luc [8:34 PM]
transaction senders pay fees in native child chain currency, then anyone who wants to step in (although by default it may be the block forger) can take those fees, and pay in fNXT to the forger instead

[8:34]
the min fee will be defined in fNXT

josenxt [8:35 PM]
How many transactions per second could NRS2.0 support?

[8:35]
Would there be room for even more optimization in tps?

jean-luc [8:36 PM]
@tosh, it should be possible to display all child chains, why not

tosch [8:37 PM]
cool. I thought maybe you are thinking about "private" vs "public" chains but there is no such thing?

cryptkeeper [8:37 PM]
So there are forgers on the child chain and forgers on the fNXT chain? And the child chain forgers take the tx for "their" currency and includes it in fNXT chain  for fNXT (or whatever it's called then)? (edited)

jean-luc [8:37 PM]
we can't have private chains, in the sense of content not visible, because all nodes need to validate all transactions

[8:38]
yes, although I wouldn't call them forgers, besides anyone could do it for the child chains, regardless of balance, as long as they are willing to pay that fNXT amount in exchange for the child token amount

riker [8:39 PM]
@josenxt: the scalability depends on the usage pattern. Our best case scenario are not many very active child chains. In this scenario we can reach great scaling improvement perhaps 50:1 over the current scaling. I think it's too early to tell. We can later improve this further for sure.

ludom [8:39 PM]
What about concurrence between childchains? If we reach the limit of TPS, some childchains will died because their transaction will not be validated?

jean-luc [8:40 PM]
those chains will have to pay more, to compete for inclusion in blocks

websioux [8:41 PM]
Big picture : shouldn't we try to become the reference of crypto framework for web designers ? or are we trying to find a hit with a sudden lucky feature ?

cryptkeeper [8:41 PM]
So if there is not much incentive to trade in "native currency" for fNXT, I guess the only "child chain forger" would be the creator of the child chain or some "operators".

tosch [8:41 PM]
There will be different sort of childchains right? Some will have simple send, some will have the Asset Exchange, DGS etc. Would it be possible to integrate new functionality like solidity from ethereum in such a childchain? Would it be possible to have a childchain with own rules as long as the transaction that comes into the block with fNXT is valid?

nxt3d_net [8:42 PM]
there is some news about the DGS ? thank you

beor [8:42 PM]
joined #general

jean-luc [8:42 PM]
yes, if you create a child chain and want to keep it running even if its token doesn't have real market value, such a creator would have to keep paying the fees himself

riker [8:43 PM]
@websioux: web designers ?

ludom [8:43 PM]
 Pinned a message. See all pinned items in this channel.
jean-luc
those chains will have to pay more, to compete for inclusion in blocks
March 20th at 8:40 PM

jean-luc [8:43 PM]
childchain with own rules, yes, but they must be a subset of what is possible

riker [8:43 PM]
@nxt3d_net: what are you missing ?

cryptkeeper [8:43 PM]
OK, I guess you have all the edge cases covered. But my head is spinning! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

websioux [8:43 PM]
@riker any business though the web

ludom [8:43 PM]
But if there is not enough TPS for all the chain, it'll be a problem

jean-luc [8:43 PM]
e.g., with no shuffling allowed, or with only some accounts permitted to issue assets

websioux [8:44 PM]
I should have say web business designer

riker [8:44 PM]
@websioux: I don't think we need to specialize on a specific feature. We need to provide the best tools for decentralized apps dev.

[8:45]
Specific projects can then specialize on their domain

martis [8:46 PM]
are there some plans to optimize and speed up blockchain download from scratch, if possible?

websioux [8:46 PM]
ok good if this is the goal, stay general

jean-luc [8:46 PM]
the block size limits are not set in stone, if the hardcoded limits are reached, we can think about changing them, if the practical CPU processing limits are reached, this is already quite a lot of transactions, I wouldn't worry that far in the future

ludom [8:46 PM]
The address of the childchains will be NXT-XXXX-XXXX-XXXXX ? Or they will have their own code ?

jean-luc [8:46 PM]
the secret phrase to public key to account number mapping doesn't change

[8:47]
so accounts will be global, and will be able to have balance on multiple chains

[8:47]
the NXT- is just a vanity prefix

come-from-beyond [8:47 PM]
Is it possible to create some kind of interface (similar to Java interfaces) that would allow to "attach" any platform as a sidechain? The interface is supposed to work in such a way that its complete implementation would be enough and Nxt core wouldn't need to know the nuances of the attached platform. If such an interface is possible, when could we get the documentation (ETA)?

nxt3d_net [8:47 PM]
@riker images, better listing... the firestorm bug relative to the wallet display into the virtual worlds was fixed and now we can fully use the wallet... but the thing that may interest the metaverse users is the marketplace in first... there is some dev on it? thank's

riker [8:48 PM]
@nxt3d_net: let's take it offline. PM me on the forum

jean-luc [8:48 PM]
attach an external platform? hm, not sure how exactly this could work...

brangdon [8:48 PM]
Do you think this is adequate to satisfy compliance requirements? If, eg, shuffling is not allowed on a business chain, but it still allowed on other chains the business's node is processing, won't the business still get into trouble if local law makes shuffling illegal? Are the businesses you've talked to happy with this?

jean-luc [8:49 PM]
what we call child chains are really transactions denominated in a different token, getting stored in their separate db schema, and optionally pruned differently, but they are still the basic Nxt transaction types

seccour [8:49 PM]
:squirrel:

come-from-beyond [8:50 PM]
Thx

riker [8:50 PM]
@brangdon: not every business will be able to use the public chain because of compliance issues

bcdev [8:51 PM]
Are there any plans for a scripting language a'la Bitcoin transaction scripts? (edited)

jean-luc [8:52 PM]
for such a business, a private clone will still be needed, but when based on 2.0 such clone will have the advantage of better scalability even if it runs a single child chain for that business only

riker [8:52 PM]
@bcdev: I don't think we should invest in scripting unless we find something very simple to implement. There are already several blockchains which specialized in this and we'll never catch up

martis [8:53 PM]
I'll repeat my question, as it was not answered: are there some plans to optimize and speed up blockchain download from scratch, if possible?

cryptkeeper [8:53 PM]
 Pinned a message. See all pinned items in this channel.
riker riker
@bcdev: I don't think we should invest in scripting unless we find something very simple to implement. There are already several blockchains which specialized in this and we'll never catch up

jean-luc [8:53 PM]
1.8 is already as optimized as I can make it

altsheets [8:54 PM]
what about offering the peerexplorer bootstrap download as a choice in the installer?

jean-luc [8:54 PM]
for 2.0, of course it should be faster, as there will be fewer data to download, but more importantly much less processing to do

riker [8:54 PM]
@martis: when we have pruning in 2.0 you'll need to download less data

altsheets [8:54 PM]
that IS fast

martis [8:54 PM]
ROGER :simple_smile:

jean-luc [8:55 PM]
not in the installer

[8:55]
and we need a replacement for peerexplorer anyway

damelon [8:55 PM]
We are already talking to crimi

evildave [8:56 PM]
Ummm....I may have reached a deal with Crimi to keep PE up.

damelon [8:56 PM]
Chances are good we can keep PE going :simple_smile:

evildave [8:56 PM]
And....it's time to start wrapping up this Q+A, guys

[8:57]
Shall we take one more question ?

nxter [8:57 PM]
what are the current estimated eta on 1,8   1.9  and 2.0?

altsheets [8:57 PM]
I have one more question:
Which of the ​*far future*​ ideas of the http://www.nxttechnologytree.com do you personally find most exciting?

riker [8:57 PM]
@nxter

[8:58]
@nxter: 1.8 is probably 2-3 weeks away. 1.9 several month. 2.0 not sure

nxt3d_net [8:59 PM]
thank you for this useful meeting and informations, i hope will be more Dev Q&A in the future :simple_smile:

riker [8:59 PM]
@altsheets: for me I get excited when users are using my code. I don't get attached to specific features

evildave [9:00 PM]
I think there will be,....thanks, everyone

riker [9:00 PM]
thanks everyone

martis [9:00 PM]
Thank you devs

evildave [9:00 PM]
Same time next week ?

Bas Wisselink [20:01]
@channel: We can get started with the second Q&A. Put your questions to the devs :simple_smile:
 
yassinnxt [20:01]
hi :simple_smile:
 
durerus [20:01]
How long will existing funds suffice for devs and tnnse?
 
Bas Wisselink [20:01]
@durerus: i can answer for TNNSE
 
[20:01]
The funds were meant for one year operations.
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:02]
Hi
 
Bas Wisselink [20:02]
I think that at current speed they might last longer, but 1 year was the mandate
 
Dave Pearce [20:02]
the CFC funds will cover about another 12-18 months at current burn rates
 
[20:03]
and that is all (pretty much) going on devs, bounties and central community resources
 
Lyaffe [20:04]
@knuckle: regarding shuffling, if you shuffle with 4 others and your account was known, now to track you someone would have to track 5 accounts
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:04]
Question : After the 2.0 fork, do you have some plan for public childchains?
 
Bas Wisselink [20:05]
Currently, CFC is paying stipends to Scripterron, several devs who do piece work (like Testdruif for his new client UI) and Riker monthly
 
[20:05]
CFC also pays for sites, certificates etc
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:05]
What about a specific childchain for voting system?
 
Lyaffe [20:06]
@ludom: you should be able to create a new child chain and limit it to only allow voting transactions
 
durerus [20:06]
What is devs' and tnnse's opinion on fnxt distribution? 1:1 or IPO?
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:07]
If I have some project for a child chain, but I have no technical skills for that, can we ask for help and how many it'll cost ?
 
[20:08]
(it could be me or other persons)
 
[20:08]
Do you think you can launch a help desk to launch childchains ?
 
Bas Wisselink [20:08]
@durerus: as far as I know (reading the forums) the distribution and IPO idea are seperate issues at this moment. The IPO was proposed by someone, but it was never an official proposal.
 
jean-luc [20:09]
it is too early to plan for help desk, of course when we get there support will have to deal with it too
 
[20:09]
at first we are likely to just have a few hardcoded child chains
 
Bas Wisselink [20:10]
I also want to stress that we as TNSSE are facilitating, and do not want to get involved in the decision. The only thing I can say is that I do think long term funding in general is an issue and that it needs to be addressed. As to the distribution scheme, that is up to the community.
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:10]
I understand that is early, but my question was more "do you want to develop the childchain businesses and projects?" or it's only a new feature that the people can use or not (it's not dev's problem)
 
jean-luc [20:11]
whether to do an IPO is not a developers' decision either
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:11]
What is this few hardcoded child chains ?
 
Dave Pearce [20:11]
My personal opinion on fNXT distro is that we need to keep discussing it, and figure out  a solution that benefits everyone. Nothing is yet set in stone
 
jean-luc [20:11]
I concur that funding is an issue, and IPO is one option to consider
 
[20:11]
we don't know yet
 
[20:11]
this is how software is developed
 
[20:12]
you can't have everything fully implemented at once
 
vanbreuk [20:12]
This is not strictly a question, but since everyone is here... a reminder that IPO/per NXT distribution are not necessarily mutually exclusive. You could distribute 1/2 fNXT supply to existing holders and expand through a partial IPO. But let us take back the topic in the forums, I don't want to derail the Q&A
 
durerus [20:13]
Will devs redistribute potential future income from IP rights to nxtholders by for example buying coins?
1  
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:13]
Nxt is for the moment the single childchain known for the 2.0 fork ?
 
Lyaffe [20:14]
@ludom: I believe the answer is yes. NXT is the only childchain planned for 2.0
 
Bas Wisselink [20:15]
@ludom: known yes, expected no
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:15]
But we can prepare an IPO for a second childchain, it could be a good idea
 
[20:16]
Yes Nxt can do everything, but it can be a good idea to launch a second public childchain to recrute new users and collect some fresh money
 
Lyaffe [20:16]
@durerus: I don't know. This is a theoretical question at the moment. Its not simple to monetize the IP
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:16]
For a specific proposition
 
Dave Pearce [20:17]
@durerus:  we (foundation/TNSSE) have discussed potential methods of feeding income based on IP licensing back into the community.  As riker says, it is tricky, but there will be  a way to do so, in that event. (edited)
 
petko [20:18]
https://nxtchat.slack.com/archives/general/p1459101902000817
So testdruif is reworkign the UI? That's interesting. Could you provide more details?
Bas Wisselink damelon
Currently, CFC is paying stipends to Scripterron, several devs who do piece work (like Testdruif for his new client UI) and Riker monthly
Today at 20:05
 
Testdruif [20:18]
I'm not reworking it
 
[20:18]
I'm just adding stuff here and there
 
jean-luc [20:19]
it is about adding enhancements
 
Bas Wisselink [20:19]
@lyaffe or @jean-luc should. CFC is just handling the request
 
petko [20:19]
aha ok
 
Bas Wisselink [20:19]
phrasing is so important. Sorry for the misunderstanding
 
durerus [20:20]
For how long will JL work for free as main dev?
 
jean-luc [20:20]
up to one more year
 
[20:20]
assuming nothing drastic happens
 
durerus [20:21]
So until 2.0?
 
jean-luc [20:21]
something like that
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:21]
Question for Nxt Foundation: what do you think about the crowdfunding of @nxtchina? What about intergrate her in the foundation?
 
durerus [20:21]
On what it depend for you to continue after that?
 
jean-luc [20:22]
if the NXT value increases, if I believe there is a very good chance that 2.0 will be a significant success, and so on
 
[20:22]
a lot can change in crypto for one year
 
Dave Pearce [20:24]
Allwelder/NxtChina is already pretty much on board with the Foundation activities.......still, don't see why not. Expansion of the Foundation could be a good thing.
 
[20:25]
And, on NxtChina funding....it's  a good idea.
 
Bas Wisselink [20:25]
Allwelder has done good work. I've worked with her since the first marketing committee
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:26]
I think, it could be good for her funding and for the Nxt communty to make something clean
 
Testdruif [20:26]
a quick question while I'm coding :simple_smile:
What timezone is nxt timestamp in? (utc, utc+1,..)
 
Dave Pearce [20:26]
Watch out for the trap of spending too much time on organising structures, though, instead of just getting work done.
 
jean-luc [20:27]
it is number of seconds since genesis block was created
 
Bas Wisselink [20:27]
I do feel the need to keep pointing out that the Foundation has never, ever been an organisation like the Bitcoin Foundation. It is solely meant, and has always been promoted as a point of contact for businesses because we felt that was needed
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:27]
ok
 
Bas Wisselink [20:28]
The Foundation as we set it up is a means to an end for what we think is needed. It is entirely possible, and needed, that other structures that chase other interests are also set up
 
Dave Pearce [20:28]
And it's useful for admin stuff, like SSL certs, or hosting, to have a business entity to pay bills.
1  
 
Bas Wisselink [20:29]
Indeed. There are many things that would be impossible without a legal entity
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:30]
I have a important question from the side of the community. What can we do to help?
 
[20:31]
What can be very useful for Nxt in general?
 
Bas Wisselink [20:31]
But we do not work for "the stakeholders" and never have. Our work may be in their interest and we believe it is, but it was never set up to do that. Some whales support us, some don't. That's up to them. I also believe that for stakeholders to have two ways of influencing development (both by technology PoS ​*and*​ and organisation) is a Trojan horse
1  
 
nxter [20:34]
It is said that Nxt 2.0 will only contain one hard-coded childchain. How long do you think it it will take from NXT 2.0 to when the creation of more childchains is released?
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:34]
The problem of Nxt is the lack of transactions, but I feel very passive to change that
 
jean-luc [20:34]
no idea at this time
 
Lyaffe [20:35]
The creation process of a new child chain is quite complex, need it's transaction types
 
jean-luc [20:35]
for transactions, we need to have businesses using the blockchain
 
[20:36]
or at least accepting payments in nxt
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:37]
Coinomat and SuperNET were good providers of transactions
1  
 
Lyaffe [20:38]
Let's talk about the upcoming 1.8 release ?
 
[20:39]
We have a desktop wallet now, Mac installer is better, account monitor and now thanks to @testdruif we also have images in dgs
 
[20:39]
Questions ?
 
petko [20:39]
is 1.8 introducing a hard fork?
 
Testdruif [20:39]
and "goto page or modal" via url :wink:
 
jean-luc [20:39]
no fork
 
Lyaffe [20:40]
These are all business friendly features
 
[20:40]
Improved user experience
2  
 
Mister Knuckle [20:40]
Mac installer is definitely better, that fills a gap, will make some users very happy
 
Dave Pearce [20:40]
and reduce the helpdesk workload.....:innocent:
 
durerus [20:41]
So for whome do you work if not for stakeholders @damelon ?
1  
 
Bas Wisselink [20:41]
I would like to ask all Mac users to be as active in providing feedback as they can
 
Lyaffe [20:41]
@testdruif: also we can now link directly into a specific page and modal on the client wallet. Thanks for implementing this 6 month old bounty.
1  
 
jean-luc [20:42]
btw, is there a way to generate automatically such link?
 
Lyaffe [20:43]
@jean-luc: not yet, need to think about it
 
jean-luc [20:43]
yeah, we need a "bookmark" or "link to this page" button accessible from everywhere
 
Bas Wisselink [20:43]
@durerus: We've always worked for Nxt as a platform. That includes the stakeholders, but it's done according to what we think is what it is useful for. If you look back, you will find that we've gone against the current stream sometimes. For instance, we started the image of Nxt as a modular system when people were only thinking of it as a currency. I still am glad that we went off that path.
 
durerus [20:44]
Good. Thx
 
Bas Wisselink [20:44]
My point is that we have always said we would choose our course based on our knowledge and what we hear from our contacts. Our contacts are rather broad, and we've gained them from attending conferences and speaking
 
[20:46]
Another thing the community can do for instance is just go out to meetups and talk to people. That really works. Our Wednesdays came out of that. We can help with providing material for presentations if people want to do them. Don't be shy. Get on stage and stutter if needed. That is the only way we will get a foot between the door in the end
 
[20:46]
Don't be shy is a good tip in general :simple_smile:
 
nxter [20:46]
What do the devs think about re-branding nxt?
 
Lyaffe [20:47]
@nxter: a lot of client side work, need a really good reason
 
jean-luc [20:47]
it is a marketing and legal issue, I don't like having to do it, but understand it may be necessary
 
Lyaffe [20:48]
Regarding transactions, do we now have less transactions then say BTS, NEM, EMERCOIN (whatever it is) ? Is it important ?
 
jean-luc [20:49]
something more concerning than transactions is that forging power is dropping, and number of nodes
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:50]
Transactions is the sign that a blockchain is used
 
Lyaffe [20:50]
Are we losing forging power because it's not simple to forge ? to lease ? to run a node ?
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:50]
The forging power goes down because you feel useless when you forge
 
[20:51]
I was a forger
 
jean-luc [20:51]
nothing has changed in the ease of forging or leasing
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:51]
When I forged a block, I was happy when it wasn't a block with zero transactions
 
[20:52]
But it was rare
 
[20:52]
But now, I have no motivation to forge
 
Testdruif [20:52]
lease your balance to me ludom :wink:
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:53]
Because my RasPi 1 is not anymore good enought to forge
 
[20:53]
and because I feel not so much useful to forge for so less transactions
 
Dave Pearce [20:53]
Yeah, the RaspPi one is no longer really Nxt capable....but lease!
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:55]
Lease to which account?
 
Lyaffe [20:55]
I'm trying to understand this, some guys come up with some crazy idea about a new blockchain and are able to raise 5M$ from you guys. And we have here a fully functional blockchain ready for use and a good scaling solution and this is the reason to stop forging ?
1  
 
[20:56]
Of course a blockchain that was never issued does not have backward compatibility problems.
 
jean-luc [20:56]
working software is boring
1  
 
2615peter [20:56]
I don't know who he raised 5M$ from, but I don't think it was 100% nxtforum community :smile:
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:56]
Right peter
 
[20:56]
:smile:
 
jean-luc [20:56]
I assume riker meant Lisk
 
Lyaffe [20:57]
Yes Lisk, I bet that a significant amount he raised came from this community
 
Lionel Jeannerat [20:57]
Where can I find a list of forging pools (charity pools are ok for me)
 
2615peter [20:57]
people like promises... they can project any dreams into promises
 
nxter [20:58]
are the mission and vision statements of nxt known and published somewhere?
 
jean-luc [20:58]
do we currently have functioning forging pools?
 
Testdruif [20:58]
@ludom http://pool.nxtcrypto.org/
 
Bas Wisselink [20:58]
nxtcrypto and Dave's pools are active
 
jean-luc [20:58]
that reminds me of another issue, services like peerexplorer shutting down, this is what funding is needed for
 
Dave Pearce [20:59]
Mine is more a node, and does not pay out. Forging income goes mostly to faucets and other useful projects. (edited)
 
jean-luc [20:59]
to keep useful websites alive and up to date
 
Bas Wisselink [20:59]
Peerexplorer is already taken care of
 
[20:59]
We've funded it
 
[20:59]
:simple_smile:
 
[20:59]
Well, CFC did
 
jean-luc [20:59]
I know, but an example of what we need money for, not just paying devs
 
Dave Pearce [20:59]
Well, almost...still need to actually hand Crimi the cash, but it is covered.
 
jean-luc [21:00]
and then, third party projects like lite clients, mobile wallets, that just get abandoned
 
2615peter [21:01]
since I don't use NXT as a coin, I myself don't need a (mobile) 'wallet' atm :wink:
 
Lyaffe [21:01]
Lisk raised 5M$ and we need to work a full year with less 80K$ it's unbelievable. Imagine what we can do with 500K
 
Dave Pearce [21:02]
:innocent:
 
Lionel Jeannerat [21:02]
SuperNET made great third projects for Nxt
 
jean-luc [21:02]
I have some ideas to make NRS also usable as light client for 1.9, because now we see that if it is not in the NRS, such projects don't last
 
[21:02]
but we can't stuff everything into the NRS
 
Lionel Jeannerat [21:03]
The SuperNET lite wallet is great
 
nxter [21:03]
The main problem is to trust your pasword to other clients other than the NRS
 
jean-luc [21:04]
how long will it stay up to date? without funding, depends on the good will and spare time of the developer
 
Martijn Buurman [21:04]
joined #general
 
jean-luc [21:04]
but bitcoin has many wallets, not just bitcoin-qt
 
Bas Wisselink [21:04]
I think this is a point that needs to be stressed. We have a working platform that was made by talented people who as good as volunteered. We started with 21 BTC and are now still worth 8 million. That is, if we are completely honest, a big accomplishment. We also had a fractured community fighting over funds for a long time and were lucky to be able to consolidate the community funds at some point last year. Dave and I managed to get a further donation for us to keep working, based on our track record. We also have a community that is highly divided into whether we should even work in or outside of real world business. Overall, given all that, it's a miracle that we managed all this and I think that also needs to be acknowledged
 
jean-luc [21:04]
long term, you start trusting other devs too
 
2615peter [21:05]
and a nice new website :simple_smile:
 
Bas Wisselink [21:05]
There is a tendency to be very negative, but given what we all know about our history over the last 2 years, well damnit, we survived a pile of stuff a normal company would have crumpled under.
 
Testdruif [21:06]
if I can figure out how to create the broadcast transaction data a lite wallet is only moments away (for sending and receiving nxt + messages)
 
2615peter [21:06]
yep, if you would just imagine there's no such thing as a CMC-website...
 
Testdruif [21:06]
it's still on my to do list :disappointed:
 
Bas Wisselink [21:06]
Starting from that, it's sometimes hard to see so many people looking for the negatives and not what we have and pick it up and run with it. There is no one stopping anyone building
 
[21:07]
I sometimes am surprised when people ask me if they should do something: just do it!
 
[21:07]
Didn't mean to go off on a rant, but I did anyway :stuck_out_tongue:
 
Bas Wisselink [21:07]
gets coat
 
2615peter [21:07]
(fast show)
 
Bas Wisselink [21:07]
(yes)
 
nxter [21:08]
I asked this question before but did not get answer:  "are the mission and vision statements of nxt known and published somewhere?"  does it mean nxt do not have clear mission and vision statements?
 
Lyaffe [21:09]
I guess we had the BCNext roadmap. Now we just set the roadmap ourselves.
 
2615peter [21:09]
NXT, the currency, gives its users complete financial freedom.
Nxt, the application platform, gives its users complete freedom to create.
1  
 
Lyaffe [21:10]
Up to now it was all about features. With the 2.0 release it's all about scaling.
 
2615peter [21:11]
scaling is hard to sell... because it's not a problem today
 
Lyaffe [21:11]
It's a problem for Bitcoin not for NXT
 
2615peter [21:12]
http://www.coinfox.info/news/5171-ethereum-founder-now-we-can-scale-the-system (edited)
 
Bas Wisselink [21:12]
We already went over 60 minutes today :simple_smile:
 
[21:12]
I'd like to propose to do this again next week