Artificial Intelligence on the Forum

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Quote from: C10H15N on June 30, 2024, 04:25:16 PM

Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

Perhaps we need to welcome all real Intelligence and not an Artificial one Wink

For a moment think, even if AI was allowed in the forum someday, still the signature participants would still be required to post by themselves and if they start to use AI to post stuff and no effort done by them, then it is not moral for them to take money from the campaigns.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 02, 2024, 05:43:02 PM

On the flip side there is AI (to include chatbots) and that is basically taking things too far when it comes to this forum populated and dominated by humans. If those claiming to use AI to correct posts want others to believe them that is a different matter altogether but using AI to generate replies for the sake of trying to build accounts with minimal effort to make money from them is basically not intelligence. Would you agree?

Quote from: C10H15N on June 30, 2024, 04:25:16 PM

Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

I agree with you that people would only be joining this forum to earn money which is not wrong according to Theymos but still, I think will hurt the main purpose of the forum. Because people would be making fake content, content that would be so obvious, and most of these members wouldn't even be new. Most of them would be alternative accounts.

But I also agree with c10h15N because AI can't be ignored, and whether you agree or not, most of the members on this forum are already using AI chat bots for various tasks. The point is, some are using AI to understand some terms, learn them, and then share there own POV, while some are using it to find scammers (this I found out yesterday), etc., etc I don't think grammatical correction apps would be considered AI but if they, everyone needs to know some official rules. Yesterday I read a post, came from the moderator, he said a person can use AI but has to give the source for it like when we quote some words we use a quote words or give source link, same way a link should be given. (source)

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 03, 2024, 03:53:15 AM

AI isn't "intelligent", that's just the marketing talking. It is at best a language model, spitting out things that seem impressive at first sight, but are utterly disappointing when you look a bit better.

I went to buy a full suit, with tie and shirt. I made my choice, trying to match colors and to make sure that my clothes fit well. I was going to wear the suit with shoes, which I have at home, and at that time I was wearing sneakers. I had gone alone and it occurred to me to upload the photo to GPT chat (my face did not appear, as it can generate obvious privacy problems) to ask him how it looked on me. In an instant, without my asking, he told me that the suit looked good on me, giving a detailed description of why, and ended by saying: "but if you are going to wear the suit in a formal situation, you better wear shoes".

I don't know if you find any disappointment in that.

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Quote from: C10H15N on June 30, 2024, 04:25:16 PM

Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

AI isn't "intelligent", that's just the marketing talking. It is at best a language model, spitting out things that seem impressive at first sight, but are utterly disappointing when you look a bit better.

JollyGood

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That is a very bold statement, I like it Grin

As members of the forum we should all be accepting intelligence but not in any form. Human intelligence ranging from the low quality posters, trolls, scammers and attention-seekers on one side and high quality posters and technical geniuses on the other side and every one else between the two are humans with intelligence. It is a broad pool.

On the flip side there is AI (to include chatbots) and that is basically taking things too far when it comes to this forum populated and dominated by humans. If those claiming to use AI to correct posts want others to believe them that is a different matter altogether but using AI to generate replies for the sake of trying to build accounts with minimal effort to make money from them is basically not intelligence. Would you agree?

Quote from: C10H15N on June 30, 2024, 04:25:16 PM

Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

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Quote from: Coyster on July 02, 2024, 10:08:08 AM

Quote from: Mate2237 on July 01, 2024, 04:17:17 PM

So there was no need for creating threads to report AI or ChatGTP users but the thread for reporting plagiarism was good enough foe the two tasks.

Posting copy/pasted responses from AI chatbot is plagiarism, but the admin has not made a rule on that yet; so even if we interpret it as plagiarism, it does not attract the same punishment as plagiarism on the forum for now, hence the need for a different thread. That being said, so many users are generalizing the use of AI to be negative only, which isn't correct, AI can be used to edit, improve ones spelling and grammar, etc, but generating posts from AI chatbot reeks of laziness and should be unacceptable.

So now which of the punishment is given to those who are using AI now? I have not seen them punished except reporting those thread ls and comments to a moderator foe deleting. And plagiarism is not an app or software but the action of the person which he copied the other person work without making references but AI is a software which tell your what has been said, therefore AI produces plagiarism. And even if the person edit the other person work, the idea was not edited so the author of that thread should be recognized.

Plagiarism comes from different forms, paraphrasing or full text.

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Quote from: Mate2237 on July 01, 2024, 04:17:17 PM

So there was no need for creating threads to report AI or ChatGTP users but the thread for reporting plagiarism was good enough foe the two tasks.

Posting copy/pasted responses from AI chatbot is plagiarism, but the admin has not made a rule on that yet; so even if we interpret it as plagiarism, it does not attract the same punishment as plagiarism on the forum for now, hence the need for a different thread. That being said, so many users are generalizing the use of AI to be negative only, which isn't correct, AI can be used to edit, improve ones spelling and grammar, etc, but generating posts from AI chatbot reeks of laziness and should be unacceptable.

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 11, 2024, 10:31:01 AM

I feel like we need clear rules about Artificial Intelligence on the forum.

Some of us have been asking for clarity for a very long time but had to interpret the rules as we thought appropriate. For that reason I think the whole debate will rage on for a long time until it eventually reaches a point at which AI would have inflicted a lot of changes. By that point, it would force admin to make an announcement to put an end to the confusion.

Quote from: C10H15N on June 30, 2024, 04:25:16 PM

Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

That is a very bold statement, I like it Grin

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 11, 2024, 10:31:01 AM

What does the forum staff think about AI-generated posts?
Should we report those posts to moderators?
Should AI text be quoted?
Should users make the AI-Busters (Just like we have the Spam-Busters)?
Can users get nuked if they only post AI-generated content?

I know there are some other topics related to AI like this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5445074.60 but i don't see any intervention from the staff on that thread, that's why i place this questions to know how should we proceed about this topic as users.

Sorry, I'm just seeing this and I like to reply to the OP directly.

The AI-generated posts or alleged posts are not new on this forum, but I wonder if there is a good purpose for this if not for cheating. You can't tell me you are posting an AI-generated post for a genuine reason if not for alts sake. Because the required words and characters to be posted by the forum and campaigns are not burdensome to the point that someone can't do the writing by himself. AI posts should be frowned upon if found abused.

However, I am not entirely against the use of AIs but it must be used rightly. How can you ask a question from an AI and copy and paste it directly, or even tell the AI to auto-post for you? That is bad. If at all you use AI, you ask what you do not know, just like you ask Google and others, learn it to educate yourself, and then use what it taught you to construct your post, simple! If you must write what the AI answered, you should only quote some parts and even reference the AI you quoted. Anything aside this is plagiarism and I believe this forum frowns on it and if found should be reported.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 29, 2024, 03:37:27 PM

I'm not making any kind of argument as to how bad AI-generated crap is vs. plagiarism, simply stating my view that the former doesn't meet the criteria for the definition of the latter, unless the argument is that the AI program is culling what it's writing from stuff that's already been written, and I'm not sure I buy that. If that were true, then every site on the web that uses AI to write something, every student who uses AI for a class, and essentially all use of AI to generate text produces plagiarized results and anyone who uses it is a plagiarist. That's extreme, but regardless of how extreme I just don't think it's true.

Sorry to reply to this so late, but I missed the updates on this thread. And honestly, whether AI-generated posts constitute plagiarism or not, they ought to be banned, full stop. I might have missed any decrees from Theymos as well, so where does the forum stand with respect to idiots using AI? And yes, I will go back and read the rest of this thread after posting this.

I strongly agreed with the The Sceptical Chymist because there is no different between AI (ChatGTP) and Plagiarism. Plagiarism is when someone copied another person work without reference and claimed to be the owner and using AI is the same thing so if the punishment is given to someone who has plagiarized then that should be also to the AI or ChatGTP users as well.

So there was no need for creating threads to report AI or ChatGTP users but the thread for reporting plagiarism was good enough foe the two tasks.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on June 30, 2024, 12:16:57 AM

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?
The question was asked 11 years ago, and the answer was a joke. However, Chatbot gives such advice. What can say more Angry

?

An example from eleven years ago confirms nothing, my friend. About ten years ago I used to make fun of automated translators and today even sworn translators, those who are paid to make the translation valid, use them. Even less so if we take into account the exponential capacity for improvement that AI has, which is cumulative, never tires and never gets old, unlike humans. We are not even seeing the tip of the iceberg of what AIs will be able to do in 10 years.

Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on June 30, 2024, 04:09:19 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 10:01:12 PM

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

That's what you think?... Lol

Explain the joke to me, to see if I laugh too.

C10H15N

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Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

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Quote from: Vod on June 29, 2024, 07:40:40 PM

The debate is when such aids will be accepted. There is little difference between garbage AI and garbage make your post quota.

Vod, you ain't trying to make this a personal problem right?

I can recall taking pains to straighten out that what I wrote wasn't about anyone in particular - What do you mean garbage post quota?
Have you realized that you're entitled to your own opinion as long as everyone needs to say something? AFAIK, with the limited knowledge I've got, AIs don't CREATE informations on their own; that doesn't mean what they create ain't useful... You can call 'em an aid alongside grammerly and the rest IDC.

Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 10:01:12 PM

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

That's what you think?... Lol

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Quote from: pinggoki on June 29, 2024, 08:44:56 PM

if it happens to be punished in a school setting, shouldn't we punish it here too?

I would say no. A school is a development environment, and this forum is production/commercial.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on June 30, 2024, 12:16:57 AM

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?

imagine they put something like that into a medical diagnostics situation where the AI was prescribing medicines and things. Shocked

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 10:17:54 PM

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on June 29, 2024, 10:07:48 PM

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong.

Yes, I know the problem. There have been famous cases of lawyers for example who filed a lawsuit made by Chat GPT that contained errors. So, we shouldn't be overconfident when using it but that will happen less and less. It has to do with the fact that Chat GPT is programmed for the user's satisfaction, and if you talk to it (I do it to practice languages), he never contradicts you and if he does it is in a very polite way.

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?
The question was asked 11 years ago, and the answer was a joke. However, Chatbot gives such advice. What can say more Angry

?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pizza/comments/1a19s0/my_cheese_slides_off_the_pizza_too_easily/
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/glue-in-pizza-eat-rocks-googles-ai-search-is-mocked-for-bizarre-answers/

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on June 29, 2024, 10:07:48 PM

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong.

Yes, I know the problem. There have been famous cases of lawyers for example who filed a lawsuit made by Chat GPT that contained errors. So, we shouldn't be overconfident when using it but that will happen less and less. It has to do with the fact that Chat GPT is programmed for the user's satisfaction, and if you talk to it (I do it to practice languages), he never contradicts you and if he does it is in a very polite way.

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 10:01:12 PM

I use search engines less and less and ask the AI.

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong. and then you tell it it is wrong and guess what it does? it apologizes. i've found it will apologize even if you lie to it and tell it it was wrong when it was really right...

at least with search engines you get to see the website the information is coming from and get an idea about the credibility of the information from that. not so with the LLM, it will lie through its teeth. and it has no concept of how it is wrong. because it has no intelligence.

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2024, 05:28:26 AM

There is a lot of money to be made via LLMs (which is really what the OP is referring to), and that is not from sig deals.

There is literally a lot of money being made with LLMs outside this forum.

Quote from: Vod on June 29, 2024, 07:40:40 PM

Because you didn't define what you consider an aid. Do you type on a manual typewriter (looking in a dictionary) than run uphill 2 miles to the nearest building with electricity to upload your words to the internet?

Aids could include an electronic keyboard, internet at your house, or a car to drive you where you need to go.
In the 2010s, an aid could be considered grammarley or even Google to aid you in research.

The debate is when such aids will be accepted. There is little difference between garbage AI and garbage make your post quota.

That's why I say that the debate here is too focused on the copy paste case, which is just one of the many things the AI does. Besides the fact that companies are already integrating it into computers, mobiles and browsers. Anyone who doesn't like AI better go into a cave and put on a loincloth.

One of the uses of AI is to edit, improving, what you, a human being, have written. Another is to search for information. I use search engines less and less and ask the AI. There is also the integration of google lens with AI.

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 03, 2024, 05:39:05 AM

I might read articles from what I believe to be reputable sources, and I might paraphrase information that I find across several sources in my post.

Any university would require you to credit the sources, and if not, it's plagiarism.
[/quote]
Now that you've mentioned this case, a relative of mine told me a story about my alma mater catching students using AI to doctor or "help" their thesis and research papers and so far, they're not going to be graduating soon and the school is going for litigation that would lead towards removal from the university, it's a really bad case but I guess this relates to the dilemma that we have here in the forum in regards to AI, if it happens to be punished in a school setting, shouldn't we punish it here too? I don't think that this forum is of higher standard than any top schools out there so who are we to be different than them when it comes to AI stuff?

Topic: Artificial Intelligence on the Forum (Read 1024 times)