Artificial Intelligence on the Forum

Mate2237

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 29, 2024, 04:37:27 PM

I'm not making any kind of argument as to how bad AI-generated crap is vs. plagiarism, simply stating my view that the former doesn't meet the criteria for the definition of the latter, unless the argument is that the AI program is culling what it's writing from stuff that's already been written, and I'm not sure I buy that. If that were true, then every site on the web that uses AI to write something, every student who uses AI for a class, and essentially all use of AI to generate text produces plagiarized results and anyone who uses it is a plagiarist. That's extreme, but regardless of how extreme I just don't think it's true.

Sorry to reply to this so late, but I missed the updates on this thread. And honestly, whether AI-generated posts constitute plagiarism or not, they ought to be banned, full stop. I might have missed any decrees from Theymos as well, so where does the forum stand with respect to idiots using AI? And yes, I will go back and read the rest of this thread after posting this.

I strongly agreed with the The Sceptical Chymist because there is no different between AI (ChatGTP) and Plagiarism. Plagiarism is when someone copied another person work without reference and claimed to be the owner and using AI is the same thing so if the punishment is given to someone who has plagiarized then that should be also to the AI or ChatGTP users as well.

So there was no need for creating threads to report AI or ChatGTP users but the thread for reporting plagiarism was good enough foe the two tasks.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on June 30, 2024, 01:16:57 AM

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?
The question was asked 11 years ago, and the answer was a joke. However, Chatbot gives such advice. What can say more Angry

?

An example from eleven years ago confirms nothing, my friend. About ten years ago I used to make fun of automated translators and today even sworn translators, those who are paid to make the translation valid, use them. Even less so if we take into account the exponential capacity for improvement that AI has, which is cumulative, never tires and never gets old, unlike humans. We are not even seeing the tip of the iceberg of what AIs will be able to do in 10 years.

Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on June 30, 2024, 05:09:19 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 11:01:12 PM

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

That's what you think?... Lol

Explain the joke to me, to see if I laugh too.

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Personally, I welcome intelligence in any form. This forum need all that it can get. Wink

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Quote from: Vod on June 29, 2024, 08:40:40 PM

The debate is when such aids will be accepted. There is little difference between garbage AI and garbage make your post quota.

Vod, you ain't trying to make this a personal problem right?

I can recall taking pains to straighten out that what I wrote wasn't about anyone in particular - What do you mean garbage post quota?
Have you realized that you're entitled to your own opinion as long as everyone needs to say something? AFAIK, with the limited knowledge I've got, AIs don't CREATE informations on their own; that doesn't mean what they create ain't useful... You can call 'em an aid alongside grammerly and the rest IDC.

Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 11:01:12 PM

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

That's what you think?... Lol

Vod

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Quote from: pinggoki on June 29, 2024, 09:44:56 PM

if it happens to be punished in a school setting, shouldn't we punish it here too?

I would say no. A school is a development environment, and this forum is production/commercial.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on June 30, 2024, 01:16:57 AM

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?

imagine they put something like that into a medical diagnostics situation where the AI was prescribing medicines and things. Shocked

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 11:17:54 PM

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on June 29, 2024, 11:07:48 PM

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong.

Yes, I know the problem. There have been famous cases of lawyers for example who filed a lawsuit made by Chat GPT that contained errors. So, we shouldn't be overconfident when using it but that will happen less and less. It has to do with the fact that Chat GPT is programmed for the user's satisfaction, and if you talk to it (I do it to practice languages), he never contradicts you and if he does it is in a very polite way.

Just to confirm your answers... this is a story that caused a lot of laughter. Have you read the story when a chatbot, when asked how best to cook a pizza, advised using a little glue to prevent the cheese from falling off the pizza? Grin

Is it possible to trust AI after such answers?
The question was asked 11 years ago, and the answer was a joke. However, Chatbot gives such advice. What can say more Angry

?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pizza/comments/1a19s0/my_cheese_slides_off_the_pizza_too_easily/
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/glue-in-pizza-eat-rocks-googles-ai-search-is-mocked-for-bizarre-answers/

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on June 29, 2024, 11:07:48 PM

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong.

Yes, I know the problem. There have been famous cases of lawyers for example who filed a lawsuit made by Chat GPT that contained errors. So, we shouldn't be overconfident when using it but that will happen less and less. It has to do with the fact that Chat GPT is programmed for the user's satisfaction, and if you talk to it (I do it to practice languages), he never contradicts you and if he does it is in a very polite way.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 29, 2024, 11:01:12 PM

I use search engines less and less and ask the AI.

the problem with that is, have you noticed how sometimes the AI can just spit out completely false information? because it doesn't provide you with references so you have no way of knowing where it got its information. but sometimes you just know it is wrong. and then you tell it it is wrong and guess what it does? it apologizes. i've found it will apologize even if you lie to it and tell it it was wrong when it was really right...

at least with search engines you get to see the website the information is coming from and get an idea about the credibility of the information from that. not so with the LLM, it will lie through its teeth. and it has no concept of how it is wrong. because it has no intelligence.

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2024, 06:28:26 AM

There is a lot of money to be made via LLMs (which is really what the OP is referring to), and that is not from sig deals.

There is literally a lot of money being made with LLMs outside this forum.

Quote from: Vod on June 29, 2024, 08:40:40 PM

Because you didn't define what you consider an aid. Do you type on a manual typewriter (looking in a dictionary) than run uphill 2 miles to the nearest building with electricity to upload your words to the internet?

Aids could include an electronic keyboard, internet at your house, or a car to drive you where you need to go.
In the 2010s, an aid could be considered grammarley or even Google to aid you in research.

The debate is when such aids will be accepted. There is little difference between garbage AI and garbage make your post quota.

That's why I say that the debate here is too focused on the copy paste case, which is just one of the many things the AI does. Besides the fact that companies are already integrating it into computers, mobiles and browsers. Anyone who doesn't like AI better go into a cave and put on a loincloth.

One of the uses of AI is to edit, improving, what you, a human being, have written. Another is to search for information. I use search engines less and less and ask the AI. There is also the integration of google lens with AI.

A lot of what I see around here sounds like Luddism to me.

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 03, 2024, 06:39:05 AM

I might read articles from what I believe to be reputable sources, and I might paraphrase information that I find across several sources in my post.

Any university would require you to credit the sources, and if not, it's plagiarism.
[/quote]
Now that you've mentioned this case, a relative of mine told me a story about my alma mater catching students using AI to doctor or "help" their thesis and research papers and so far, they're not going to be graduating soon and the school is going for litigation that would lead towards removal from the university, it's a really bad case but I guess this relates to the dilemma that we have here in the forum in regards to AI, if it happens to be punished in a school setting, shouldn't we punish it here too? I don't think that this forum is of higher standard than any top schools out there so who are we to be different than them when it comes to AI stuff?

Vod

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Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on June 29, 2024, 05:32:01 PM

Exactly my point!! I mean, how did this even turn into a debate whether or not user that post with aids be banned?

Because you didn't define what you consider an aid. Do you type on a manual typewriter (looking in a dictionary) than run uphill 2 miles to the nearest building with electricity to upload your words to the internet?

Aids could include an electronic keyboard, internet at your house, or a car to drive you where you need to go.
In the 2010s, an aid could be considered grammarley or even Google to aid you in research.

The debate is when such aids will be accepted. There is little difference between garbage AI and garbage make your post quota.

Sandra_hakeem

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 29, 2024, 04:37:27 PM

Sorry to reply to this so late, but I missed the updates on this thread. And honestly, whether AI-generated posts constitute plagiarism or not, they ought to be banned, full stop.

Exactly my point!! I mean, how did this even turn into a debate whether or not user that post with aids be banned?

What's the petty sentiments about?... Y'all need to stop whatever you're doing and call a spade by its name. No offense to anyone that feels this is about them but .... c'monnn! Are you practically telling people to follow suit?

The younger generations are looking up to you.. What's this gonna sound like? Take a look at altcointalk for instance; are y'all comfortable in there compared to Bitcointalk? No shades! I will never join any unnecessary arguments about what's considerably bad or not, but if I'm being executed cause I was caught with arms (in a country that it isn't legalized) in an attempt to steal, does that make pocket pickers to not face the laws... Good lord!

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 27, 2024, 03:20:29 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on May 26, 2024, 10:59:17 AM

I'd argue chatbot verbal diarrhea is plagiarism by definition. I've already seen claims against those companies for using data as input without permission (which is a copyright issue). They reproduce bits and pieces of other data without sharing the original source (which is a plagiarism issue).

It is even worse than usual human plagiarism since it is more likely using copy-paste from multiple websites and than it combines everything into one single post without providing any source links.
I wouldn't be surprised if developers made AI to replace some words to make it look different, and same tactics was used by human plagiators for years.

I'm not making any kind of argument as to how bad AI-generated crap is vs. plagiarism, simply stating my view that the former doesn't meet the criteria for the definition of the latter, unless the argument is that the AI program is culling what it's writing from stuff that's already been written, and I'm not sure I buy that. If that were true, then every site on the web that uses AI to write something, every student who uses AI for a class, and essentially all use of AI to generate text produces plagiarized results and anyone who uses it is a plagiarist. That's extreme, but regardless of how extreme I just don't think it's true.

Sorry to reply to this so late, but I missed the updates on this thread. And honestly, whether AI-generated posts constitute plagiarism or not, they ought to be banned, full stop. I might have missed any decrees from Theymos as well, so where does the forum stand with respect to idiots using AI? And yes, I will go back and read the rest of this thread after posting this.

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2024, 06:28:26 AM

Anything a LLM says is not plagiarism.

Let me correct that for you. Everything an LLM or text generator writes can be plagiarism, depending on how you use it.

Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2024, 06:28:26 AM

If there is a topic that I find interesting regarding something I don't know a lot about, I might read articles from what I believe to be reputable sources, and I might paraphrase information that I find across several sources in my post. That is essentially what a LLM does.

Acquiring knowledge by reading what others have said on a particular topic and then explaining or writing about it the way you remembered it is not plagiarism. If it was, most of the stuff we say about Bitcoin could be classified as plagiarism. A simple question, like explaining what Bitcoin is can't be answered without saying something that other people haven't already said in the past (most probably).

Plagiarism is often about intention. If you find a research on hardware wallets and make it sound like you made the research, it's plagiarism. You can't write about that on the forum by saying that you conducted the research, you talked with experts, you spent hours configuring and working with the devices, if it was someone else who did it.

Quote from: DaNNy001 on June 03, 2024, 08:14:03 AM

I also was using the grammarly as a supportive measure to atleast straighten and make my grammar a little bit readable but the whole chaos with AI generated or correct post made me let go because it got to a particular period when I actually felt that even the use of grammarly could be classified as AI.

Grammarly doesn't generate text on its own. It corrects the grammar of existing text you feed into it. You should be fine using Grammarly. No one should get into trouble for doing extra work to make their posts better, especially if English isn't their first language. It would be unfair if the admins punished users for using Grammarly.

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Quote from: Lida93 on May 12, 2024, 11:16:46 AM

Ordinarily, it's an act of cheating on others by using AI to generate a topic and laying claim of ownership to it. It could make those other members that are constantly driving in personal effort into making quality posts get to feel as though their efforts is not making progress or improvement whenever they have to compare an AI generator poster posts to that of theirs which was done organically of their own effort. That's just one of many reasons I don't support the use of AI in the forum for discussions.

But if the administrators would want to absorb the use of AI in anyway, then I'll suggest a dedicated board is created for all kinds of AI generated topics no matter the category or section the topics should just be posted into that very board in as much as it's AI generated. And it won't need the poster to indicate if it's AI generated or not, just by having it there common sense will tell it's AI generated.

I buy the idea of having a separate board created for AI generated essays, even though that it would create a divide because any topics already created by human intelligence may have a different ring to it if created using AI.
I read here where someone suggested that users who make comments or create post using Ai, should indicate at the end or leave something like a footnote to state it was created by AI.

In all, the essence of having a community like this where we as humans from different regions in the world can share real experiences and ideas that isn't AI generated, is simply beautiful and I have always loved to partake in the reasoning of others as much I share mine, mostly those of whom I have neither seen or met or belong with in same age bracket.

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Quote from: AbuBhakar on May 12, 2024, 11:57:13 AM

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on May 12, 2024, 01:39:41 AM

Quote from: Davidvictorson on May 11, 2024, 11:50:01 AM

Quote from: AbuBhakar on May 11, 2024, 11:43:18 AM

Is grammarly and other tools to improve post quality is part of this AI tools? I’m using this AI tools sometimes when I’m on a device with this extension which I use to correct my grammar and improve my post. Sometimes it change my sentence construction to a more decent format.

I’m confused whether this tool is considered as AI or not but I'm sure that it’s different approach compared to chatgpt AI because my thoughts is the basis of the improved post.

I do not know how to answer this question but I would say after you have used grammarly to help your sentence construction, run your text through a AI checker software available on the internet, if they turn out to signal that it is AI written, I would advise that you should simply indicate at the end of the text that grammarly was used in helping your sentence construction. Because if any other user runs your texts via the AI checker and it turns out to be 100% AI, how do you explain to them that it was grammarly that you use for sentence construction and not chat GPT?

Anyone who often uses several tools to check AI texts can already visually predict whether a post was created using GPT chat or not. I'm not talking about guaranteed detection, but such posts most often attract the eye and beg for verification. If you're talking about grammar and spell-checking tools, then your text is unlikely to be detectable as AI-written text. I see a lot of examples, and those posts that people write on their own will never (or in rare cases) be identified as AI. Therefore, there is no need for clarification.

There is the topic, and there are quite a lot of examples of how people catch spammers in GPT chat. Moderators also use their own verification methods; otherwise, how can we think that some reports are good and some remain unprocessed?

But those cases when we mark spammers as “accounts using AI” have virtually no effect on the spammers. Having received the tag, they continue to write in AI texts.

It really is like fighting windmills.

Thank you for this clarification. I usually have a doubt when using grammarly since they now offer text improvement which rephrased a complete statement based on the format your desire by changing the tone and expression of your original statement. This makes me confused because this might already a borderline AI like tools which I might unknowingly using.

But one thing is for sure that I construct first my first and just improve using the tools to make it more appealing to read by correcting the grammar. This comment give me confidence. Thanks again

I also was using the grammarly as a supportive measure to atleast straighten and make my grammar a little bit readable but the whole chaos with AI generated or correct post made me let go because it got to a particular period when I actually felt that even the use of grammarly could be classified as AI aided post or write but I know all the writes up are made originally by me, it's just that the grammarly too helps me rearrange them to put the right punctuation and grammar set up in the right order.

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Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2024, 06:28:26 AM

I might read articles from what I believe to be reputable sources, and I might paraphrase information that I find across several sources in my post.

Any university would require you to credit the sources, and if not, it's plagiarism.

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 29, 2024, 03:03:48 AM

Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on May 29, 2024, 12:30:33 AM

no person in their right mind would just go and ask chatgpt questions and copy and paste them into forum threads just for free.

It's the modern version of shitposting account farmers. Some even manage to earn Merit with it.

There is a lot of money to be made via LLMs (which is really what the OP is referring to), and that is not from sig deals. The creators of LLMs want their models to be relevant and accurate, so I somewhat understand why some might use the forum to create LLM-created posts, although there are probably some ethical issues in doing so.

Anything a LLM says is not plagiarism. If there is a topic that I find interesting regarding something I don't know a lot about, I might read articles from what I believe to be reputable sources, and I might paraphrase information that I find across several sources in my post. That is essentially what a LLM does.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 30, 2024, 11:11:31 AM

Spammers and scammers are going to be top AI users, if they are not already.

I'd expect regulators to act on this, but it's going to take many years before they do something. And given the great "success" of having cookie warnings everywhere, I don't have high hopes. Making the AI-manufacturers liable for the problems caused by their software would probably end this, but that's "killing innovation". Add a strong lobby, and I don't expect improvements.

Topic: Artificial Intelligence on the Forum (Read 826 times)