ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1264.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: repentance on February 15, 2013, 06:27:11 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on February 15, 2013, 05:56:07 PM

Can it be that friedcat now fixed the hashrate to around 2TH/s at btcguild and is running the rest solomining? Can this be found out?

If the other 10 TH was running, you'd notice it in the overall network hash-rate very quickly. You can't hide 10 TH in the current network, whether you're mining solo or through pools

I didnt mean 10TH, but its strange that it remains at this level now. Im not sure but the part of solominers looks bigger to me now than before. And if they bring the hardware online in the same speed like with btcguild they probably are around 3TH/s at the moment in total only or so.

repentance

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Quote from: SebastianJu on February 15, 2013, 05:56:07 PM

Can it be that friedcat now fixed the hashrate to around 2TH/s at btcguild and is running the rest solomining? Can this be found out?

If the other 10 TH was running, you'd notice it in the overall network hash-rate very quickly. You can't hide 10 TH in the current network, whether you're mining solo or through pools

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 15, 2013, 06:02:05 PM

Quote from: Pipesnake on February 15, 2013, 04:53:28 PM

Please take the talk of "pass-through" scams out of this thread. It does not belong here.

This thread must remain absolutely silent or off-topic, because "ASICMINER" shares are not tradable until their exchange opens.

Please take the talk of "ASICs" out of this thread, which is for the topic of "Securities." It does not belong here.

There is an appropriate "Mining Hardware" section where such discussion may take place.

Lol that escalated quickly....

Digigami

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 15, 2013, 06:02:05 PM

This thread must remain absolutely silent or off-topic, because "ASICMINER" shares are not tradable until their exchange opens.

Please take the talk of "ASICs" out of this thread, which is for the topic of "Securities." It does not belong here.

There is an appropriate "Mining Hardware" section where such discussion may take place.

Private share exchanges ARE authorized as per friedcat's last update.

Quote

Trading: The platform is still in its testing cycle. Private trades are entitled when registering in our place by PM or e-mailing me. Please do it in larger quantities and lower frequency because we cannot handle too much requests in time especially in this period.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Pipesnake on February 15, 2013, 04:53:28 PM

Please take the talk of "pass-through" scams out of this thread. It does not belong here.

This thread must remain absolutely silent or off-topic, because "ASICMINER" shares are not tradable until their exchange opens.

Please take the talk of "ASICs" out of this thread, which is for the topic of "Securities." It does not belong here.

There is an appropriate "Mining Hardware" section where such discussion may take place.

SebastianJu

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Can it be that friedcat now fixed the hashrate to around 2TH/s at btcguild and is running the rest solomining? Can this be found out?

Pipesnake

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Please take the talk of "pass-through" scams out of this thread. It does not belong here.

Deprived

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Quote from: repentance on February 15, 2013, 04:04:49 PM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on February 15, 2013, 07:03:31 AM

Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: Monster Tent on February 14, 2013, 06:29:08 PM

Im surprised no one has setup a passthrough yet. I know there is a trading platform coming but in the meantime a pure passthrough might be the way to go.

Do their rules allow it? They seem pretty intent on doing everything possible to keep it as a legitimate investment and avoid the kinds of cluster-fucks we've seen in the past due to sketchy intermediaries. You can almost guarantee that if they allow anyone and everyone to operate a pass-through, someone will eventually scam people who invest in the pass-throughs.

You can't really disallow a passthrough. How would you do it?

I guess I'm thinking of the way you could do it here, which is by setting up a class of shares which can only be sold to other existing shareholders or back to the company (you can essentially attach any conditions you like to share classes in a private company here are long as those conditions are fully disclosed). If such conditions aren't already baked in, then you'd obviously need a special resolution by existing shareholders to implement them.

It will definitely be interesting to see who operates pass-throughs and how well or badly they manage them.

I already tried a few times to get rights to a batch to operate a pass-through to LTC-Global. But I was always too late or overbid. Unless there's some barrier to entry preventing buying direct on friedcat's site there's very little benefit another BTC-denominated pass-through can offer. Buying on the main site where most liquidity is has to make sense for nearly everyone.

repentance

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on February 15, 2013, 07:03:31 AM

Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: Monster Tent on February 14, 2013, 06:29:08 PM

Im surprised no one has setup a passthrough yet. I know there is a trading platform coming but in the meantime a pure passthrough might be the way to go.

Do their rules allow it? They seem pretty intent on doing everything possible to keep it as a legitimate investment and avoid the kinds of cluster-fucks we've seen in the past due to sketchy intermediaries. You can almost guarantee that if they allow anyone and everyone to operate a pass-through, someone will eventually scam people who invest in the pass-throughs.

You can't really disallow a passthrough. How would you do it?

I guess I'm thinking of the way you could do it here, which is by setting up a class of shares which can only be sold to other existing shareholders or back to the company (you can essentially attach any conditions you like to share classes in a private company here are long as those conditions are fully disclosed). If such conditions aren't already baked in, then you'd obviously need a special resolution by existing shareholders to implement them.

It will definitely be interesting to see who operates pass-throughs and how well or badly they manage them.

DutchBrat

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I guess the stresstesting is over.... full deployment can begin.... 1.5TH now on BTCGuild....

MrTeal

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Friedcat, since you have working hardware could you give a number for what your efficiency is for a rack? Preferably including AC/DC conversion and the power drawn by those large fans. How close were you on the 4.2J/GH for the chips?

Deprived

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Quote from: midnightmagic on February 15, 2013, 02:20:52 PM

Quote from: friedcat on February 15, 2013, 12:10:54 AM

As we stated in earlier updates, the chips for next expansion (6-fold one, >50TH/s) are ordered and being produced in the fab already.

Part of what shareholders (myself included) purchased was the possibility to be able to trade in a certain number of shares to go towards the purchase of consumer equipment prior to the expansion to >= 50TH self-mining but I can no longer find this mentioned. Could you please clarify the history of this? Was the option removed due to changing circumstances? Was there a vote held to determine this? I was under the impression that only shareholders would have first-dibs on the hardware before the general unwashed masses..

This was never agreed. Some people asked for it but that's as far as it ever got.

midnightmagic

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Quote from: friedcat on February 15, 2013, 12:10:54 AM

As we stated in earlier updates, the chips for next expansion (6-fold one, >50TH/s) are ordered and being produced in the fab already.

Part of what shareholders (myself included) purchased was the possibility to be able to trade in a certain number of shares to go towards the purchase of consumer equipment prior to the expansion to >= 50TH self-mining but I can no longer find this mentioned. Could you please clarify the history of this? Was the option removed due to changing circumstances? Was there a vote held to determine this? I was under the impression that only shareholders would have first-dibs on the hardware before the general unwashed masses..

keystroke

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advocate of a cryptographic attack on the globe

Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 08:32:08 PM

Quote from: ineededausername on February 14, 2013, 08:28:53 PM

Looks like the stress test is ending, hashrate has dropped to 1.871 TH/s as of right now

19 blocks wasn't a bad effort for a first test run.

Up to 27 now! But the rate is hovering around 2,133.16 GH/s.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: MrTeal on February 15, 2013, 10:52:43 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on February 15, 2013, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: memvola on February 15, 2013, 05:22:20 AM

Quote from: mc_lovin on February 15, 2013, 03:41:43 AM

why not p2pool, isn't that pretty decentralized? asicminer could really bring them into the light!

ASICMINER would become more than 95% of p2pool, which means almost no reduction in variance for a significant overhead. Going solo is better in every way. Someone mentioned that pools are more resistant to DDOS than solo mining but I doubt that there is a good supporting argument for that either.

However, I presume friedcat thinks we will most likely be below a few percent for the most of our operation and that's why he will develop the infrastructure with pools in mind. In that case, we could use one p2pool instance among other pools.

Yes, but it would also prevent friedcat from becoming a threat in a 51% situation since he does not control the output. p2pool has made monolithic pools obsolete, and I don't understand why anyone would be silly enough to ever use anything but p2pool.

I'm not sure how mining on p2pool would prevent friedcat from becoming a 51% threat. Just having one entity control that much of the hashrate is the threat, regardless of how it's divided up amongst pools. At any time, Asicminer could stop mining on p2pool or any other pool and initiate a double spend or start rejecting all blocks but their own. Where they're mining currently doesn't change that they could attack at any time if they get 50TH/s when the rest of the network is only 30-40TH/s.

p2pool shares have to be generated as valid. If friedcat would leave p2pool and mine blocks that harm Bitcoin, we'd just change the hash algo out from under him thus rendering the entire farm useless.

MrTeal

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on February 15, 2013, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: memvola on February 15, 2013, 05:22:20 AM

Quote from: mc_lovin on February 15, 2013, 03:41:43 AM

why not p2pool, isn't that pretty decentralized? asicminer could really bring them into the light!

ASICMINER would become more than 95% of p2pool, which means almost no reduction in variance for a significant overhead. Going solo is better in every way. Someone mentioned that pools are more resistant to DDOS than solo mining but I doubt that there is a good supporting argument for that either.

However, I presume friedcat thinks we will most likely be below a few percent for the most of our operation and that's why he will develop the infrastructure with pools in mind. In that case, we could use one p2pool instance among other pools.

Yes, but it would also prevent friedcat from becoming a threat in a 51% situation since he does not control the output. p2pool has made monolithic pools obsolete, and I don't understand why anyone would be silly enough to ever use anything but p2pool.

I'm not sure how mining on p2pool would prevent friedcat from becoming a 51% threat. Just having one entity control that much of the hashrate is the threat, regardless of how it's divided up amongst pools. At any time, Asicminer could stop mining on p2pool or any other pool and initiate a double spend or start rejecting all blocks but their own. Where they're mining currently doesn't change that they could attack at any time if they get 50TH/s when the rest of the network is only 30-40TH/s.

Deprived

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on February 15, 2013, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: memvola on February 15, 2013, 05:22:20 AM

Quote from: mc_lovin on February 15, 2013, 03:41:43 AM

why not p2pool, isn't that pretty decentralized? asicminer could really bring them into the light!

ASICMINER would become more than 95% of p2pool, which means almost no reduction in variance for a significant overhead. Going solo is better in every way. Someone mentioned that pools are more resistant to DDOS than solo mining but I doubt that there is a good supporting argument for that either.

However, I presume friedcat thinks we will most likely be below a few percent for the most of our operation and that's why he will develop the infrastructure with pools in mind. In that case, we could use one p2pool instance among other pools.

Yes, but it would also prevent friedcat from becoming a threat in a 51% situation since he does not control the output. p2pool has made monolithic pools obsolete, and I don't understand why anyone would be silly enough to ever use anything but p2pool.

It wouldn't stop anything. At any time friedcat could take the machines off p2pool and do a 51% attack. The only way it "stops" it is if he doesn't intend to do it - which is why all the talk of which pool to use is pointless. He has the machines - if they're over 50% he can try to double-spend. No amount of pointing them at different pools removes that capability.

The thing preventing him 51% attacking (if ASICMINER ever got to 51% - which isn't all that likely as it requires both Avalon AND BFL to miss shipping) - is that it doesn't make economic sense to do it: the loss in value of all future mined BTC would far outweigh whatever double-spend benefit he got short-term.

So forget all the wasted effort talking about pools and just mine wherever makes the most profit - with the sole caveat of never pointing enough power at a single pool that the pool operator gets anywhere near the point of having 50% of network power. Presumably friedcat trusts HIMSELF not to do an attack - so any significant granting of power to pools can only increase risk not reduce it.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: memvola on February 15, 2013, 05:22:20 AM

Quote from: mc_lovin on February 15, 2013, 03:41:43 AM

why not p2pool, isn't that pretty decentralized? asicminer could really bring them into the light!

ASICMINER would become more than 95% of p2pool, which means almost no reduction in variance for a significant overhead. Going solo is better in every way. Someone mentioned that pools are more resistant to DDOS than solo mining but I doubt that there is a good supporting argument for that either.

However, I presume friedcat thinks we will most likely be below a few percent for the most of our operation and that's why he will develop the infrastructure with pools in mind. In that case, we could use one p2pool instance among other pools.

Yes, but it would also prevent friedcat from becoming a threat in a 51% situation since he does not control the output. p2pool has made monolithic pools obsolete, and I don't understand why anyone would be silly enough to ever use anything but p2pool.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: repentance on February 14, 2013, 06:35:40 PM

Quote from: Monster Tent on February 14, 2013, 06:29:08 PM

Im surprised no one has setup a passthrough yet. I know there is a trading platform coming but in the meantime a pure passthrough might be the way to go.

Do their rules allow it? They seem pretty intent on doing everything possible to keep it as a legitimate investment and avoid the kinds of cluster-fucks we've seen in the past due to sketchy intermediaries. You can almost guarantee that if they allow anyone and everyone to operate a pass-through, someone will eventually scam people who invest in the pass-throughs.

You can't really disallow a passthrough. How would you do it?

piotr_n

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Quote from: SebastianJu on February 15, 2013, 06:56:44 AM

Thanks. I dont like the thought that the money isnt paid back and friedcat, who isnt guilty for this has to pay. Its a big amount of real money.

Yea, I agree with you, but it was friedcat's decision (nobody has pushed him into it), so we can only thank him for being so generous

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1264. (Read 3917591 times)