ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1310.

DutchBrat

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Quote from: SebastianJu on October 13, 2012, 07:55:35 AM

You mean the api worked with username and password? No api-key? But even when... who should the attacker get the logindetails? I mean most users probably hadnt used 2fa so attacker could simply login and claim the shares. But first he need the logindetails. Where should he get this?

Or does he mean that nefario could use user-pass to claim the shares for himself?

If API is being send as plain-text... then 'nefarious'-characters (couldn't help myself here lol) can intercept it at many points.... If they know what they are looking for....

SebastianJu

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You mean the api worked with username and password? No api-key? But even when... who should the attacker get the logindetails? I mean most users probably hadnt used 2fa so attacker could simply login and claim the shares. But first he need the logindetails. Where should he get this?

Or does he mean that nefario could use user-pass to claim the shares for himself?

DiabloD3

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DiabloMiner author

Quote from: SebastianJu on October 12, 2012, 08:05:07 PM

Quote from: SmiGueL on October 12, 2012, 07:17:58 PM

Just filled in the form on GLBSE for my 3 accounts and I hope you'll receive the asset information from Nefario

(I have splitted to 3 cause I had API enabled... and so anyone with the API URL can steal your funds even with 2FA enabled)

I have about 300+ shares so I would be really pissed off if they've all 'dissapeared'...

Do I need to email to the specified email address or do we wait until GLBSE gives more info?
(It 'll take a while to figure out when I bought what, probably not gonna work cause I don't have any transaction files)

Hope the ASIC's will come soon!

Why do you think someone with the api url can steal your funds? I dont see what you mean.

Guess username and password, 2fa cannot be done over the API, and there is no read only API.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: SmiGueL on October 12, 2012, 07:17:58 PM

Just filled in the form on GLBSE for my 3 accounts and I hope you'll receive the asset information from Nefario

(I have splitted to 3 cause I had API enabled... and so anyone with the API URL can steal your funds even with 2FA enabled)

I have about 300+ shares so I would be really pissed off if they've all 'dissapeared'...

Do I need to email to the specified email address or do we wait until GLBSE gives more info?
(It 'll take a while to figure out when I bought what, probably not gonna work cause I don't have any transaction files)

Hope the ASIC's will come soon!

Why do you think someone with the api url can steal your funds? I dont see what you mean.

SmiGueL

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Just filled in the form on GLBSE for my 3 accounts and I hope you'll receive the asset information from Nefario

(I have splitted to 3 cause I had API enabled... and so anyone with the API URL can steal your funds even with 2FA enabled)

I have about 300+ shares so I would be really pissed off if they've all 'dissapeared'...

Do I need to email to the specified email address or do we wait until GLBSE gives more info?
(It 'll take a while to figure out when I bought what, probably not gonna work cause I don't have any transaction files)

Hope the ASIC's will come soon!

matauc12

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Quote from: markm on October 12, 2012, 05:50:36 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DutchBrat on October 12, 2012, 03:10:22 AM

...
That being said.... most startup companies do not IPO on an exchange but get funding from angel investors and seeding capital

Those shares are privately held until the valuation of the company is big enough to go onto an exchange

For some companies the most ROI is made during the private investor period, so when the shares can only change hands privately instead of publicly

Then they IPO the company at a high value and everyone of the first investors is happy

Yep, and they hold onto that extremely profitable and privileged position with an iron grip. Its a shame GLBSE is gone but it threatened that position and so was very vulnerable. I'm not sure if open transactions is stable enough for something like asicminer yet but would be interested to hear friedcat's thoughts on it.

That is a big reason why I do not like dividends. Forcing people to have to actually offer someone else a chance at a share in order to "cash out" avoids the price/value going up and down in sawtoothed waves as dividend day approaches and hits and helps create opportunities for later adopters to get in.

-MarkM-

and guess what happens then? Value likely increases. Making active trading even more valuable.

Digigami

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Quote from: data on October 12, 2012, 05:37:06 AM

Well regarding ease of trading vs. value: Who would buy my few shares for the 0.108-0.11 right now? I don't find a buyer, so they have basically no value to me atm. except for the possibility of earning dividends.

Also, the management overhead of friedcat organizing all trading can only impede the real goal of ASICMINER.

Not sure that we could do any trading of shares currently.. but if we could I would be interested at .105 depending how many shares you have for sale.. Probably going to have to wait until this all gets sorted out though. I really wanted to continue accumulating ASICMINER shares over these few weeks, I believe they had one of the highest potentials of all the assests which were on GLBSE.

markm

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DutchBrat on October 12, 2012, 03:10:22 AM

...
That being said.... most startup companies do not IPO on an exchange but get funding from angel investors and seeding capital

Those shares are privately held until the valuation of the company is big enough to go onto an exchange

For some companies the most ROI is made during the private investor period, so when the shares can only change hands privately instead of publicly

Then they IPO the company at a high value and everyone of the first investors is happy

Yep, and they hold onto that extremely profitable and privileged position with an iron grip. Its a shame GLBSE is gone but it threatened that position and so was very vulnerable. I'm not sure if open transactions is stable enough for something like asicminer yet but would be interested to hear friedcat's thoughts on it.

That is a big reason why I do not like dividends. Forcing people to have to actually offer someone else a chance at a share in order to "cash out" avoids the price/value going up and down in sawtoothed waves as dividend day approaches and hits and helps create opportunities for later adopters to get in.

-MarkM-

data

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Well regarding ease of trading vs. value: Who would buy my few shares for the 0.108-0.11 right now? I don't find a buyer, so they have basically no value to me atm. except for the possibility of earning dividends.

Also, the management overhead of friedcat organizing all trading can only impede the real goal of ASICMINER.

Jutarul

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Quote from: niko on October 12, 2012, 03:18:44 AM

Quote from: Jutarul on October 12, 2012, 03:08:57 AM

Technically, if friedcats prediction holds and the initial mining generates enough surplus to cover the initial investments as dividends, I don't care what the share price is. Anything is profit above that point.
The more interesting question is whether the operating profit will be enough to grow the company or whether additional financing rounds are necessary.

Hard to say without knowing everyone's J/Mhash and the fab cost. An arms race is on!

For the mining it's less the J/Mhash that counts. It's more the timing and the rate at which new GH/s can be added.
However, for the sales I agree - the J/Mhash is the selling point.

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: Jutarul on October 12, 2012, 03:08:57 AM

Technically, if friedcats prediction holds and the initial mining generates enough surplus to cover the initial investments as dividends, I don't care what the share price is. Anything is profit above that point.
The more interesting question is whether the operating profit will be enough to grow the company or whether additional financing rounds are necessary.

Hard to say without knowing everyone's J/Mhash and the fab cost. An arms race is on!

DutchBrat

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Quote from: matauc12 on October 12, 2012, 02:37:10 AM

Quote from: markm on October 12, 2012, 02:17:24 AM

Only if you are talking about tulip bulb mainia bubble try "value".

If you own a portion of something whose actual assets/value (including so called "goodwill") goes up vastly in value, then you made that ROI.

Sounds like you just want tulips to play pump and dump with.

-MarkM-

When something is harder/more complicated to trade, the value goes down. By how much? Who knows. Bottom line, value is lower. Don't see why there is a need to argue against that.

Also you seem to talk about day trading in a derogatory manner... which I don't understand why.

That being said.... most startup companies do not IPO on an exchange but get funding from angel investors and seeding capital

Those shares are privately held until the valuation of the company is big enough to go onto an exchange

For some companies the most ROI is made during the private investor period, so when the shares can only change hands privately instead of publicly

Then they IPO the company at a high value and everyone of the first investors is happy

Jutarul

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Merit: 1000

Technically, if friedcats prediction holds and the initial mining generates enough surplus to cover the initial investments as dividends, I don't care what the share price is. Anything is profit above that point.
The more interesting question is whether the operating profit will be enough to grow the company or whether additional financing rounds are necessary.

lame.duck

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Quote from: matauc12 on October 12, 2012, 02:37:10 AM

When something is harder/more complicated to trade, the value goes down. By how much? Who knows. Bottom line, value is lower. Don't see why there is a need to argue against that.

If you can't quantify it, it's only a speculation without any proof. In fact it could be harder = more expensive to the buyer to get some shares. So it's 'obvious' that the value goes up Wink

matauc12

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Quote from: markm on October 12, 2012, 02:17:24 AM

Only if you are talking about tulip bulb mainia bubble try "value".

If you own a portion of something whose actual assets/value (including so called "goodwill") goes up vastly in value, then you made that ROI.

Sounds like you just want tulips to play pump and dump with.

-MarkM-

When something is harder/more complicated to trade, the value goes down. By how much? Who knows. Bottom line, value is lower. Don't see why there is a need to argue against that.

Also you seem to talk about day trading in a derogatory manner... which I don't understand why.

Dacm4n

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Quote from: friedcat on October 10, 2012, 11:41:15 PM

Daily Update

We have submitted the information to GLBSE, and are waiting for their responses.

Quote from: niko on October 10, 2012, 02:39:25 AM

Friedcat, would you like us to start sending you our claims (how many shares we own), in case you never receive official data from GLBSE? I've got my books in order, and I see my trades in the "complete trade history" csv file. That doesn't prove anything - but it may be all we've got, and as Jutarul explained above, it may be possible to reconstruct most of the database by matching people's claims based on amounts and timestamps.

In case of the possibility we could not receive the shareholders data, we begin collecting the claims ourselves.

Please send to ([email protected]) your number of shares and your Bitcoin address for receiving dividends. Please annotate that they are ASICMINER shares to avoid confusion with MU or MOORE shares. You could accompany them with any evidence you think is OK to provide. It is highly recommended that you use an address that you have its private key. By that, you may enjoy more facilities provided by our future automatic migrating platform.

Email sent.

markm

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Only if you are talking about tulip bulb mainia bubble try "value".

If you own a portion of something whose actual assets/value (including so called "goodwill") goes up vastly in value, then you made that ROI.

Sounds like you just want tulips to play pump and dump with.

-MarkM-

matauc12

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Merit: 500

Quote from: AngryCatfish on October 11, 2012, 11:21:27 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on October 11, 2012, 08:45:07 PM

I dont see an existing platform i would trust.

I'm in the same boat, it makes more sense if the issuers handled everything here on out instead of crossing fingers and hoping the next one doesn't end in some shady way.

the thing about privately handled shares is the actual shares have less value. When you invest in securities, the most interesting part is usually not the dividends, but the company valuation increasing (and obviously dividends). If the shares would be in high demand enough because of a good growth or potentially IPO undervaluation you can get (for example) a 0.1 share become worth 1btc share, giving a 1000% ROI. And 1000% ROI is not far fetched BTW. Start up funds often have little correlation with company value. Having no exchange impairs a huge part of why you invest.

AngryCatfish

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Quote from: SebastianJu on October 11, 2012, 08:45:07 PM

I dont see an existing platform i would trust.

I'm in the same boat, it makes more sense if the issuers handled everything here on out instead of crossing fingers and hoping the next one doesn't end in some shady way.

SebastianJu

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I dont see an existing platform i would trust.

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