ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 709.

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: reedlaw on September 15, 2013, 07:31:08 AM

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 02:27:45 PM

So, do the math. Or look here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3134886

Ask yourself this - for a company that went up 5000% from the IPO, would you consider a fair value overshoot of a couple hundred percent unreasonable? (Don't forget that USD/BTC is up 10x from the IPO too).

I'm sorry if you lost money, but if you do not base your stock trades on facts, math and logic, you are a gambler, not an investor.

At your target price of 1.5 BTC based on projected net profit 10 years from now, 2 BTC is a good deal considering the dividend payments which will quickly add up to greater than 2 BTC even if the price goes down to your target.

You understand the dividend payments are the profits that don't get reinvested, and thus the 10 year dividends cannot exceed the 10 year profit?

The point of that link you quoted is that the 10 year profits are unlikely to exceed 1.5 BTC.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: ex-trader on September 14, 2013, 08:56:55 AM

The interesting possible counter to all this is that Friedcat and the Board should consider the following:

- Change dividend policy to monthly (or even quarterly)
- Change update policy to the same frequency

The reality is that since AM is a privately-controlled company with a minority listed on exchanges and it is not seeking to raise money since it's very profitable, it has no reason to be wasting it's time dealing with the absurd frequency of updates and dividends demanded in the Bitcoin World. That way it could officially just concentrate on running the business.

As I've said before, I'm involved in a few big private companies as a Director, Investor or both. Not one of them provides either a shareholder update or a dividend more frequently than quarterly.

What do you think what amount of time the div payment will take? I think it will be pretty low time. Friedcat calculates the income, checks what he should keep back for investment, calculate the earnings through the shares, insert those numbers in a script and click send. Thats it. I think its a good idea to check the income weekly and i dont think that a reasonable amount of time can be save to do this 1 time instead 4.3 times a month.

No updates are not very good but that will take a bigger amount of time. Probably there isnt much to tell at the moment.

reedlaw

newbie

Activity: 55

Merit: 0

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 02:27:45 PM

So, do the math. Or look here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3134886

Ask yourself this - for a company that went up 5000% from the IPO, would you consider a fair value overshoot of a couple hundred percent unreasonable? (Don't forget that USD/BTC is up 10x from the IPO too).

I'm sorry if you lost money, but if you do not base your stock trades on facts, math and logic, you are a gambler, not an investor.

At your target price of 1.5 BTC based on projected net profit 10 years from now, 2 BTC is a good deal considering the dividend payments which will quickly add up to greater than 2 BTC even if the price goes down to your target.

JimiQ84

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: jabetizo on September 15, 2013, 06:26:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

In the meantime, their savings wallet keeps growing http://blockchain.info/address/1HgTJED7XEGy4vVwKa8kgefWqUB3VRX2mW

I'm pretty sure that's a shareholder's dividend address. If you divide the payout every week with that week's dividend, it's always a round number.

than how do you explain this transaction?

http://blockchain.info/tx/ba3f92c3e9fe1aba37c47e7a2f10ca55ac1498911706693c6c1cc9a18560ca55

It's sending money BACK to div's payout address

darrenyu

member

Activity: 71

Merit: 10

Lower price then we can buy more shares.
So , It is ok to me.

jabetizo

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 101

Quote from: ?? on ??

In the meantime, their savings wallet keeps growing http://blockchain.info/address/1HgTJED7XEGy4vVwKa8kgefWqUB3VRX2mW

I'm pretty sure that's a shareholder's dividend address. If you divide the payout every week with that week's dividend, it's always a round number.

freedomno1

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1094

Learning the troll avoidance button :)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/w797k.jpg
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3151018

Interesting enough guess we are left wondering.

Quote from: kingcrimson on September 14, 2013, 08:49:07 PM

Are the bitfunder pt shares good to grab? What was the drama there?

Tat mentioned that they aren't easy to push to other exchanges not sure if there are other factors though
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3144507

kingcrimson

legendary

Activity: 1025

Merit: 1000

Are the bitfunder pt shares good to grab? What was the drama there?

houseofchill

member

Activity: 110

Merit: 10

runeks, I'm not sure if that'll be such a dark future. Just depends on what we make of it. Else we're just subjects in Satoshi's empire. He's got more coins ratio wise than the current richest man in dollars by far.

World peace was always foretold by the prophets. Just like bitcoin is a harbinger to world peace. Those will change everything anyway.

shawshankinmate37927

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

Bitcoin: The People's Bailout

Quote from: velacreations on September 14, 2013, 06:21:04 PM

Quote from: Vexual on September 14, 2013, 06:15:04 PM

Quote from: shawshankinmate37927 on September 14, 2013, 06:03:29 PM

I don't see anyone telling friedcat how to run things. Shareholders, also known as owners, have every right to ask for more information. If you can't handle that, then you can GTFO.

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

each ASICMINER share always equals to 1/400,000 of the total profits and voting power of the summed value from both ASICMINER and Bitfountain.

Not owners.

regardless, shareholders can ask for more information, there's nothing wrong with that. And they tend to ask for information when things are not going great, so it's understandable that hey want to know what is going on.

FC is not obligate to answer, of course, but it would be nice if he did.

Yes, I agree. My post has been corrected.

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: houseofchill on September 14, 2013, 05:17:39 PM

Vycid, I think in the best case scenario for bitcoin, there will come a time when the dollar, like many currencies, will have hyperinflation at the same time bitcoin goes up.

I don't think many debt leveraged corporations will have the time to adjust to bitcoin with the way banks and businesses operate. Like Nokia, they'll probably be too big and structured with permanent debt.

Any company with USD-denominated debt will improve their financial situation in case of hyperinflation. Their debt would become worthless.

Quote

Because new businesses will have be structured around new labor and capital, meaning bitcoin. That gives the power to the largest bitcoin balances like Satoshi's. Next will be the organizations like AM that has a growing bitcoin reserve, similar to central bank reserves. Then AM has a role much bigger than what it seems right now. New rules for borrowing and for investing means AM can choose on its terms, any portfolio of businesses. So AM can become a conglomerate of a consumer electronic company or a credit card company or even an aerospace company.

Right, right. So you're investing in ASICMiner because it might evolve into an aerospace company in a post-fiat, bitcoin-only economy run by a small number of companies that set the rules?

To each his own I guess. To me this sounds like a very dark future. Nor do I see why it would be possible. A large bitcoin balance gives you no advantage over your competition if you can't invest it better than the competition. Sure, you have a head start, but nothing lasts forever.

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vexual on September 14, 2013, 06:15:04 PM

Quote from: shawshankinmate37927 on September 14, 2013, 06:03:29 PM

I don't see anyone telling friedcat how to run things. Shareholders, also known as owners, have every right to ask for more information. If you can't handle that, then you can GTFO.

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

each ASICMINER share always equals to 1/400,000 of the total profits and voting power of the summed value from both ASICMINER and Bitfountain.

Not owners.

regardless, shareholders can ask for more information, there's nothing wrong with that. And they tend to ask for information when things are not going great, so it's understandable that hey want to know what is going on.

FC is not obligate to answer, of course, but it would be nice if he did.

Vexual

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: shawshankinmate37927 on September 14, 2013, 06:03:29 PM

I don't see anyone telling friedcat how to run things. Shareholders, also known as owners, have every right to ask for more information. If you can't handle that, then you can GTFO.

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

each ASICMINER share always equals to 1/400,000 of the total profits and voting power of the summed value from both ASICMINER and Bitfountain.

Not owners.

shawshankinmate37927

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

Bitcoin: The People's Bailout

Quote from: ?? on ??

Considering ASICminers overall success its surprising to see so many "experts" telling them how they should run their business. There's no lack of demand for shares so all this talk of "should have..." and "should do..." can just GTFO, they came here from nothing and kept their promises and that's worth far more than pro beancounting and paperwork.

I don't see anyone telling friedcat how to run things. Shareholders, ~~also known as owners~~, have every right to ask for more information. If you can't handle that, then you can GTFO.

Edit: Not ownwers, I stand corrected.

keemao

newbie

Activity: 36

Merit: 0

Quote from: houseofchill on September 14, 2013, 05:17:39 PM

Next will be the organizations like AM that has a growing bitcoin reserve, similar to central bank reserves. New rules for borrowing and for investing means AM can choose on its terms

I see we are in bitcoin for different reasons Wink

houseofchill

member

Activity: 110

Merit: 10

Vycid, I think in the best case scenario for bitcoin, there will come a time when the dollar, like many currencies, will have hyperinflation at the same time bitcoin goes up.

I don't think many debt leveraged corporations will have the time to adjust to bitcoin with the way banks and businesses operate. Like Nokia, they'll probably be too big and structured with permanent debt. Regulations, pensions, R&D, all their ways of doing things the fiat way. So, I don't know what they're gonna do. So many industries will need to go bankrupt to reorganize.

Because new businesses will have be structured around new labor and capital, meaning bitcoin. That gives the power to the largest bitcoin balances like Satoshi's. Next will be the organizations like AM that has a growing bitcoin reserve, similar to central bank reserves. Then AM has a role much bigger than what it seems right now. New rules for borrowing and for investing means AM can choose on its terms, any portfolio of businesses. So AM can become a conglomerate of a consumer electronic company or a credit card company or even an aerospace company.

AM is more like a pod of peas, than an individual kernel. Just balancing out the big picture with your thinking for details.

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 03:09:13 PM

And yes - skepticism is always healthy. But some like to gamble...

21:00 (B) 2 @ 2.12800000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.12500000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 10 @ 2.12000000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.11500000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.11000000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 1 @ 2.10900000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 1 @ 2.10800000 ASICMINER-PT
20:46 (B) 1 @ 2.10600000 ASICMINER-PT
20:46 (B) 2 @ 2.10500000 ASICMINER-PT

truth be told, we only got to this price today because someone dropped 176+ shares this morning. The price had a lot of support around 2.2

That dump timed perfectly with the long post a few pages back where someone was asking for more transparency.

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 03:09:13 PM

And yes - skepticism is always healthy. But some like to gamble...

that's nothing, look at people buying Labcon right now...

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: velacreations on September 14, 2013, 03:07:57 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 03:00:50 PM

Why he would make this useless post today

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3151018

posting a product user guide is useless information?

regardless, we'll wait and see if there will be any confirmation of that PM. I agree that it is wise to be skeptical on information like that, until we hear it from FC himself.

The link is broken, so unless you have super-vision it's pretty useless.

And yes - skepticism is always healthy. But some like to gamble...

21:00 (B) 2 @ 2.12800000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.12500000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 10 @ 2.12000000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.11500000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 5 @ 2.11000000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 1 @ 2.10900000 ASICMINER-PT
21:00 (B) 1 @ 2.10800000 ASICMINER-PT
20:46 (B) 1 @ 2.10600000 ASICMINER-PT
20:46 (B) 2 @ 2.10500000 ASICMINER-PT

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vycid on September 14, 2013, 03:00:50 PM

Why he would make this useless post today

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3151018

posting a product user guide is useless information?

regardless, we'll wait and see if there will be any confirmation of that PM. I agree that it is wise to be skeptical on information like that, until we hear it from FC himself.

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