ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 729.

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: candoo on September 03, 2013, 01:42:45 PM

28nm will finish the mining game for almost everyone... NO ROI

Decreasing ROI has nothing to do with production process. ROI is decreased through competition. No free market can have the insane ROI that ASIC Bitcoin mining saw 6 months ago.

I mean, when ASICMiner started mining in February at 1.7 TH/s, the difficulty was around 3.3M. Friedcat has said that 1 TH costs less than $10k, so that's a $17k investment. Mining at 1.7 TH at difficulty 3.3M with $15 bitcoins earned $3,915.21 per day. That's ROI in less than 5 days. That's absolutely insane. No free market with profit margins that high will be left alone for long. 28 nm isn't even out yet, and the ROI has decreased by more than an order of magnitude in the past 6 months.

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

The other reason companies are jumping on the Litecoin ASIC train is the LTCUSD market depth. It's much more shallow than Bitcoin's. Total USD available on BTC-e is $43,340.28. So a company mining Litecoin and selling them on BTC-e would crash the price to zero if they tried to dump $43k worth of Litecoins on that exchange.

By comparison, selling $43k worth of bitcoins on Mt. Gox would only drop the price from $144 to $143.3.

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: Rival on September 04, 2013, 08:53:24 AM

"A man who aspires to control his own destiny is constantly inclined to take action. The most difficult action to take for such a man is to decide to take no action at all. It is diametrically opposed to his nature, even when it is clearly the best choice."

Tick Tock...... the amount of divs this week would drive alot of us to do alot of things that we would probably regret later.

Rival

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 502

"A man who aspires to control his own destiny is constantly inclined to take action. The most difficult action to take for such a man is to decide to take no action at all. It is diametrically opposed to his nature, even when it is clearly the best choice."

ex-trader

sr. member

Activity: 298

Merit: 250

Quote from: VeeMiner on September 04, 2013, 07:31:38 AM

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 07:00:13 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:58:37 AM

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 06:55:35 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:41:31 AM

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

That would drive the share below 2 coins.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

Don't forget the fear and panic.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

Probably, but there still the ones that trade the exchanges and therefore drive the price. A bottom will be held if the longer term holders step into buy up the shares from the short-termers and they set the floor.

VeeMiner

hero member

Activity: 752

Merit: 500

bitcoin hodler

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 07:00:13 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:58:37 AM

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 06:55:35 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:41:31 AM

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

That would drive the share below 2 coins.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

Don't forget the fear and panic.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

robix

sr. member

Activity: 360

Merit: 250

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:58:37 AM

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 06:55:35 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:41:31 AM

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

That would drive the share below 2 coins.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

Don't forget the fear and panic.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

Quote from: robix on September 04, 2013, 06:55:35 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:41:31 AM

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

That would drive the share below 2 coins.

I'm not sure. The proportion of share holders that are so short-term focused must have significantly reduced now.

robix

sr. member

Activity: 360

Merit: 250

Quote from: binaryFate on September 04, 2013, 06:41:31 AM

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

That would drive the share below 2 coins.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

0.0085
I tend to think any addition from hardware sales will be kept as investement...

Tachikoma

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

I don't think much can be predicted this week. We don't know if they need more money to investment in the 2nd-gen hardware. This will be the biggest factor in the size of the dividend payment for this week.

JimiQ84

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

0.015. Mining is a bit down, but sales should include blades already.

robix

sr. member

Activity: 360

Merit: 250

Quote from: lophie on September 04, 2013, 06:02:48 AM

Quote from: David Chen on September 04, 2013, 05:49:50 AM

hey,guys,divident prediction time!

0.07

Great

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: David Chen on September 04, 2013, 05:49:50 AM

hey,guys,divident prediction time!

0.07

David Chen

member

Activity: 91

Merit: 10

hey,guys,divident prediction time!

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: empoweoqwj on September 04, 2013, 12:39:43 AM

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 03, 2013, 11:08:28 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

No reason you couldn't make an ASIC with embedded RAM. If you made a CPU-style design with enough embedded ram to run litecoin at full speed, a chip like that would probably have lots of other practical uses.

Like?

Glorified toasters

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 03, 2013, 11:08:28 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

No reason you couldn't make an ASIC with embedded RAM. If you made a CPU-style design with enough embedded ram to run litecoin at full speed, a chip like that would probably have lots of other practical uses.

Like?

JimiQ84

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:43:30 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 03, 2013, 11:08:28 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

No reason you couldn't make an ASIC with embedded RAM. If you made a CPU-style design with enough embedded ram to run litecoin at full speed, a chip like that would probably have lots of other practical uses.

Then by definition it wouldn't be an ASIC

It's not that such a chip is impossible, it's that such a chip does not offer a great enough advantage over GPUs to encourage the kind of aggressive exploitation we're seeing with Bitcoin ASICs. No doubt they will emerge if Litecoin ever achieves Bitcoin's market size, but their appearance will not be accompanied by the same kind of 'gold rush' mentality. It will be an incremental step, offering primarily power efficiency over GPUs (since graphics cards enjoy an economy of scale Litecoin miners will likely never match) - I'd highlight FPGA vs GPU for Bitcoin as a good analogy.

Also, for technical reasons, it is extremely expensive to embed large amounts of RAM into a CPU die. The on-wafer manufacturing processes for logic and memory are very different (in fact we often use different processing tools for memory and logic applications).

for efficient litecoin mining, we will have to wait for memristors. 10 times cheaper, 10 times faster than current RAMs

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 03, 2013, 11:08:28 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

No reason you couldn't make an ASIC with embedded RAM. If you made a CPU-style design with enough embedded ram to run litecoin at full speed, a chip like that would probably have lots of other practical uses.

Then by definition it wouldn't be an ASIC

It's not that such a chip is impossible, it's that such a chip does not offer a great enough advantage over GPUs to encourage the kind of aggressive exploitation we're seeing with Bitcoin ASICs. No doubt they will emerge if Litecoin ever achieves Bitcoin's market size, but their appearance will not be accompanied by the same kind of 'gold rush' mentality. It will be an incremental step, offering primarily power efficiency over GPUs (since graphics cards enjoy an economy of scale Litecoin miners will likely never match) - I'd highlight FPGA vs GPU for Bitcoin as a good analogy.

Also, for technical reasons, it is extremely expensive to embed large amounts of RAM into a CPU die. The on-wafer manufacturing processes for logic and memory are very different (in fact we often use different processing tools for memory and logic applications).

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Does ASICMINER have the funds to build a scrypt ASIC?

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Vycid on September 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM

Quote from: romerun on September 03, 2013, 10:26:36 PM

why everybody is jumping into bitcoin ASIC. If cointerra team is the best, they should invent litecoin ASIC and become AM of litecoin.

Litecoin ASICs are much less lucrative for technical reasons (Scrypt is memory-hard)

No reason you couldn't make an ASIC with embedded RAM. If you made a CPU-style design with enough embedded ram to run litecoin at full speed, a chip like that would probably have lots of other practical uses.

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 729. (Read 3917468 times)