Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 788. (Read 3917635 times)

So now suddenly Friedcat is an idiot? Of course he wouldn't do it all at once...

he needs the PT party to set the transfer into the market.  You can only do a transfer to BTCT with both FC and burnside.  just FC will only give free shares to burnside. Burnside then transfers them to the owner in the PT.

I imagine it is similar on the other exchanges.

I think burnside would notice 40K extra shares in his account all of a sudden.

And it is possible to have direct shares transformed into PT shares, right? And individuals do that legitimately all the time?

I thought that Friedcat was the one who keeps track of the direct shares, and his inventory of those shares is not audited. Is that correct?

Yes, you are missing something. The secondary market share offerings are controlled by third parties (trusted third parties for the most part).  For AM to magic some shares into existence and dump them on the secondary markets would require the complicit actions of at least some of these third parties.  Not to mention the number of people that would notice that all of a sudden the number of shares on issue jumping.  Doing something like this would destroy the reputations of everyone involved, and the chances of it going on long enough to make it worthwhile is slim.

Honestly, if friedcat wanted to do a dodgy, all he has to do is stop paying dividends and say "so long suckas".  He's got the key to the datacentre, if he wanted to screw shareholders he wouldn't need to be sneaky about it.

AM can sell their shares on those secondary markets... am I missing something?

Yes. But the shares are sold only in secondary markets - when you buy a share, none of that money actually goes to AM (hence it cannot be included in the dividends).

The paper value of AM's securities (over 200k shares) are well above the dividends they've paid out. I agree that it is less likely, however.

I think your theory is off - there is not even a "theoretical" way AM could be a ponzi scheme: the dividends paid out to investors are approximately five times the total investments they received.

(...)
https://www.coinlenders.com/feerebate

Now, that could be a ponzi scheme. So could AM, theoretically. (...)

900*125 = 112,500 not 1,125,000 - you've multiplied it by 10
and the norm for a real datacentre would 1KW per sq-foot not 175w

well, most cryptocoin investments are either scam or high risk. The most conservative thing to do is to sit tight with bitcoin itself.

Being in this business is risky; AM is evolving to stay ahead. Ostensibly has no basis in fact.

Franchising is an additional revenue stream. Hash rate fluctuates so 'right now' is irrelevant.

If you can come up with something worthwhile that doesn't equally apply to any upcoming potential competition then great, but otherwise all the red herrings, heavily biased opinion, and conjecture but no substance is getting very tiresome.

your pdf said $125/kW per month:
Based on the math I quoted from, 10% of the network would require 900 kW, so $1,125,000 per month

Friedcat is planning to restructure his business (always risky) in order to remain competitive with a business model that his competitors will ostensibly have right off the bat.

Franchising is a good idea to go beyond 20% of the hashrate without appearing to threaten to the stability of the network. Since he's nowhere near 20% right now, it's just a good way to cut into profit margins.

Friedcat is planning to restructure his business (always risky) in order to remain competitive with a business model that his competitors will ostensibly have right off the bat.

Franchising is a good idea to go beyond 20% of the hashrate without appearing to threaten to the stability of the network. Since he's nowhere near 20% right now, it's just a good way to cut into profit margins.

FC has already said he would be distributing operations in order to minimise geopolitical and other risks. Franchising further reduces those risks. FC is two steps ahead. Vycid is two steps behind.

Also I don't think ASICMiner is using 900KW as was indicated in the scenario we are responding to. 

2. There is a great possibility that dividends increase over the next months, especially if AM continues to hold its lead in the market and delivers more hardware.  Every single day that AM makes profits fills their war chest to battle future competitors and adapt to changing market conditions. Why do you assume that they won't continue to expand and profit?

I never said it can't be done just that datacenter space is expensive, probably more than you think.  A datacenter has so much power, cooling capacity, and rack space.  They want to sell all three "commodities" in equal amounts so they don't run out of one before the other.  If they give you a higher electrical load per sq/ft that means either they need to sell underpowered racks to someone else OR they run out of power or cooling before they run out of space.  No datacenter operator (who just spent tens of millions building the thing) is going to do that.  It traps them into an underutilized capacity scenario which upsets all the bean counters. The fact that miners are energy dense doesn't really help.  They are going to want you to rent an equivalent amount of space for the power/cooling you need and then distribute your power/heat load across it.  That likely means a lot of expensive empty space.

The rate the datacenter pays for power isn't the whole story.  That class I building cost a fortune to build you are buying power, cooling, floor space, security, connectivity, redundancy, fire suppression, natural disaster resistance, etc.  It doesn't come cheap.  It is some of the most expensive real estate in the world (any data center).  I doubt it is going to be cheaper than space in China.  Maybe it is but I remain unconvinced it is so massively cheaper that giant PH/s operations will be operating at a tiny fraction of the operating cost.  


I didn't think Freidcat isn't renting space in a datacenter, I always thought (maybe incorrectly) it was just industrial/warehouse space.  Also I don't think ASICMiner is using 900KW as was indicated in the scenario we are responding to.