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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 790. (Read 3917468 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
Interesting discussion on the ActiveMining thread about some of the "competition" out there in mining land.

This is a very interesting topic.   That is why I wonder.   It is highly likely that the network is 1,000 Th/s (1,000,000 GH/s) in 45 days from now.
So, say you want to be a player like friedcat and have 20%.   With avalon chips drawing 9W per Gh/s, you need 900 kw just to power the avalons to get 10% of the market.  How you going to do that?  lot's of buildings with that power coming in?   How you going to distribute the power?   Oh, and guess how much heat 900 kW of power puts out when it goes into something that basically just heats up?   But to get 20% you need 1800kW PLUS cooling.    Even at 1W, it is an enormous undertaking.    It will be cool to see how people over come these hurdles.   Someone is going to have 500 TH/s rolled out by November?   They best call the electric company now because ordering new transformers takes a while.  

What they are saying is right.  If you want 10% of the network in September, you will need almost 900kW of power lined up and ready to go.  I don't think people realize how big of a deal that really is to get that much power online in that time frame.  It's not going to be easy and/or cheap.

If you already have a datacenter and power infrastructure in place, then expanding is much easier than building from scratch.  AM's first mover advantage may last longer than anyone anticipates because of these limitations.

At the very least, you won't see a new entity taking 10% of the network in the next 2 months.

tl;dr - getting the chips is the easy part (and they still don't even have that)

A major player would just rent datacenter space. I fail to see the infrastructure problems, since datacenters already exist.

Here's a simple example - http://os-legacy-images.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/Seattle/wastatedc/wastatedc.pdf. 2.25 MW critical load.

If I had $10M and I wanted to be a serious first mover, I'd probably talk to Cointerra about getting 50% of the hashrate on silicon and get a deal worked out there, rent a data center in Washington where electricity is very cheap (as low as $0.01/kW-h in parts of the state), and strike a deal with the Winklevoss ETF for volume coin sales.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Interesting discussion on the ActiveMining thread about some of the "competition" out there in mining land.

This is a very interesting topic.   That is why I wonder.   It is highly likely that the network is 1,000 Th/s (1,000,000 GH/s) in 45 days from now.
So, say you want to be a player like friedcat and have 20%.   With avalon chips drawing 9W per Gh/s, you need 900 kw just to power the avalons to get 10% of the market.  How you going to do that?  lot's of buildings with that power coming in?   How you going to distribute the power?   Oh, and guess how much heat 900 kW of power puts out when it goes into something that basically just heats up?   But to get 20% you need 1800kW PLUS cooling.    Even at 1W, it is an enormous undertaking.    It will be cool to see how people over come these hurdles.   Someone is going to have 500 TH/s rolled out by November?   They best call the electric company now because ordering new transformers takes a while. 

What they are saying is right.  If you want 10% of the network in September, you will need almost 900kW of power lined up and ready to go.  I don't think people realize how big of a deal that really is to get that much power online in that time frame.  It's not going to be easy and/or cheap.

If you already have a datacenter and power infrastructure in place, then expanding is much easier than building from scratch.  AM's first mover advantage may last longer than anyone anticipates because of these limitations.

At the very least, you won't see a new entity taking 10% of the network in the next 2 months.

tl;dr - getting the chips is the easy part (and they still don't even have that)
full member
Activity: 147
Merit: 100
there are not only avalons for now.

bitfury going live incrementally;
BFL is delivering as they should did it times ago;
sure, avalons too;

people are getting enough hash-power to form independent "unknown" pools.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Actually, I don't think that's one unknown. I think that's just a lot of people solo mining.

IPs like these, though, are probably guys who bought the illegitimate Avalon chips that were made by a disgruntled employee. Those shipped on time, unlike the legitimate ones.

http://blockchain.info/blocks/129.132.188.124

http://blockchain.info/blocks/75.102.1.116


 Cheesy

Goddamn, it's like some shit out of a cyberpunk novel.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
or AM franchises

Didn't realize Friedcat was doing that already. Seems really dumb, considering he's only got 7% of the hashrate himself.

he had 12% yesterday, so he's probably just renting out 5% as a test.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Looks like there is a big unknown out there pushing ASICMiner network share into the single digits...



http://blockchain.info/pools

the hashrate has dropped today, so I think it has more to do with that than competition coming up.

If AM's hashrate was on par with yesterday, they'd still have close to 12% of the network.
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
or AM franchises

Didn't realize Friedcat was doing that already. Seems really dumb, considering he's only got 7% of the hashrate himself.

Yes, I believe he said he was testing it with several trusted parties to get things worked out. That way, when the ~1 petahash of gen 2 chips come in things are ready to go with AM deploying itself and franchising out to others. I don't think it's dumb to plan ahead instead of rushing into untested businesses.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
or AM franchises

Didn't realize Friedcat was doing that already. Seems really dumb, considering he's only got 7% of the hashrate himself.
legendary
Activity: 1078
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Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.
or AM franchises
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
Looks like there is a big unknown out there pushing ASICMiner network share into the single digits...



http://blockchain.info/pools

Actually, I don't think that's one unknown. I think that's just a lot of people solo mining.

IPs like these, though, are probably guys who bought the illegitimate Avalon chips that were made by a disgruntled employee. Those shipped on time, unlike the legitimate ones.

http://blockchain.info/blocks/129.132.188.124

http://blockchain.info/blocks/75.102.1.116
hero member
Activity: 761
Merit: 500
Mine Silent, Mine Deep
Looks like there is a big unknown out there pushing ASICMiner network share into the single digits...



http://blockchain.info/pools
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
I'm well aware of transaction fees; their potential simply does not justify ASICMiner's P/E of 100, especially as their first mover advantage is about to come under fire. The magnitude of the hype around this company is unreal.

The amount of FUD in your posts is unreal...
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
Does anyone know what percentage of weekly profit is maintained for development?
Not sure if this is set to an exact number.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
I'm well aware of transaction fees; their potential simply does not justify ASICMiner's P/E of 100, especially as their first mover advantage is about to come under fire. The magnitude of the hype around this company is unreal.

How do you come up with a P/E of 100?

P/E = (share price)/(earnings of last 6 months*) = 4 BTC/0.5 BTC -> P/E of 8

*should be "earnings of last 12 months but AM's only been mining for 6 mos.

Correct or no?

P/E is annualized so you should convert the earnings of the past x months to 12 months before computing the P/E.
Still I wanted to see how the person I was responding to computed a P/E of 100.  I have a feeling it will be "fun".

In order for AM to have a P/E of 100, share prices would have to be 50 BTC/share. I'm bullish on AM but I don't see that as a possibility (at least in the near term).

EDIT: I can confirm that they've paid 0.50 BTC/share, I've kept record of every single dividend payout since Feb 28 (first payout).

Share prices of 50 BTC/share would be a market cap of 20 million BTC. Forget the near term - this will never happen, which should be immediately obvious given a long-term bitcoin money supply of 21 million.

Theoretically it's possible to have such a valuation. Because it will never happen that all shares will be dumped at once. If someone dumps a significant amount of them the share price will decrease.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Invest & Earn: https://cloudthink.io
I do not believe it is a set percentage.  Usually friedcat just takes what he needs... in the past he told us he was holding back 2,000 btc for future development.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
Does anyone know what percentage of weekly profit is maintained for development?
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
Share prices of 50 BTC/share would be a market cap of 20 million BTC. Forget the near term - this will never happen, which should be immediately obvious given a long-term bitcoin money supply of 21 million.
Vycid see replies to your previous post on p572
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫
I'm well aware of transaction fees; their potential simply does not justify ASICMiner's P/E of 100, especially as their first mover advantage is about to come under fire. The magnitude of the hype around this company is unreal.

How do you come up with a P/E of 100?

P/E = (share price)/(earnings of last 6 months*) = 4 BTC/0.5 BTC -> P/E of 8

*should be "earnings of last 12 months but AM's only been mining for 6 mos.

Correct or no?

P/E is annualized so you should convert the earnings of the past x months to 12 months before computing the P/E.
Still I wanted to see how the person I was responding to computed a P/E of 100.  I have a feeling it will be "fun".

In order for AM to have a P/E of 100, share prices would have to be 50 BTC/share. I'm bullish on AM but I don't see that as a possibility (at least in the near term).

EDIT: I can confirm that they've paid 0.50 BTC/share, I've kept record of every single dividend payout since Feb 28 (first payout).

Share prices of 50 BTC/share would be a market cap of 20 million BTC. Forget the near term - this will never happen, which should be immediately obvious given a long-term bitcoin money supply of 21 million.
FNG
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
I'm well aware of transaction fees; their potential simply does not justify ASICMiner's P/E of 100, especially as their first mover advantage is about to come under fire. The magnitude of the hype around this company is unreal.

How do you come up with a P/E of 100?

P/E = (share price)/(earnings of last 6 months*) = 4 BTC/0.5 BTC -> P/E of 8

*should be "earnings of last 12 months but AM's only been mining for 6 mos.

Correct or no?

P/E is annualized so you should convert the earnings of the past x months to 12 months before computing the P/E.
Still I wanted to see how the person I was responding to computed a P/E of 100.  I have a feeling it will be "fun".

In order for AM to have a P/E of 100, share prices would have to be 50 BTC/share. I'm bullish on AM but I don't see that as a possibility (at least in the near term).
EDIT: I can confirm that they've paid 0.50 BTC/share, I've kept record of every single dividend payout since Feb 28.

That would mean a market cap of 50 billion dollars.  That doesn't even make sense.. ever..

Your math is off by a huge amount. I'm assuming you're using USD.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
Our society is addicted to oil -- it is the only thing keeping it alive.  We can't sustain an overpopulated world with solar and wind power.  Without oil our economies would crumble and we would living in the dark ages -- except imagine the dark ages with a million times more people.   Shocked
We can survive without bitcoin, no matter how popular it will become.   Roll Eyes  It's value will never be comparable to oil because it's not a necessary resource.

Even if we could replace oil with alternative fuels (which aren't as efficient as oil and have a low EROEI (Energy Returned IOn Energy Invested)) we'd still need oil to make fertilizers and pesticides without which modern agriculture would be impossible.
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