Would you all PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE FUCKING TROLL?
This thread has gone to shit again due to you replying to him. Just ignore him and keep on speculating on real stuff.
For fuck's sake that's one of the oldest Internet techniques to fuck up a discussion, and you are all falling to it!
Push that fucking ignore button and go on!
Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread - page 224. (Read 808768 times)
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
That's what I've been saying all along and that's precisely why AM is overpriced. My argument is not that BFL is the greatest or that AM is the worst. My argument is simply that AM is overpriced basically because it has a monopoly.
Right now it is not overvalued because there is no threat to the monopoly. Once one appears, if prices don't fall it may be overvalued.
There is a threat to the monopoly though. It's there for everyone to see, inching its way closer and closer. Anyone looking to invest, rather than speculate, needs to take these things into account.
Multiply the BFL number by 75 and you'll find that in a month from now, the BFLs would have earned at least 75 BTC more than the AM shares. Did you have a point or are just trying to reinforce mine?
A first day Jalapeno will have made more profit than an AM IPO share by the end of the month and you'd still have the Jalapeno, whereas you'd have to sell the AM share.
You really are smoking crack.
A Jalepeno cost 33 BTC if you ordered one early enough to expect delivery before the fall of this year.
Those lucky buyers will never get their 33 BTC back, let alone profit from the device.
Was saying that based on the delivery of orders the AM share is still a lot more profitable than the miner since the miner did not deliver the whole year 
If you had the miner after waiting a year then if the difficulty exceeds your 2500 T/H from the 1500 T/H current then it can still make money on current calculations.
Assuming that the unit exists in the first place
And you calculated the loss of the time value of money
It needs proof of existence and delivery otherwise the AM share keeps winning perpetually till the darn thing delivers
I could also add BFL Chip credits as a rebate on that waiting too
Add a 0.04 Btc per credit heck if were using 2012 you get double that still a currency loss though lol
That said a unit in 2013
Probably needs a difficulty calculation of 10000 T/H by the time it delivers
Assuming the growth of ASICmining
It's just BFL were talking about if we used Avalons not as bad at least they ship more than BFL
But then we need to worry about that wall of shares they are offering if we value the stock if it's the miners who cares
And well an overpriced stock holding network is more valuable than a PMB
If you had the miner after waiting a year then if the difficulty exceeds your 2500 T/H from the 1500 T/H current then it can still make money on current calculations.
Assuming that the unit exists in the first place
And you calculated the loss of the time value of money
It needs proof of existence and delivery otherwise the AM share keeps winning perpetually till the darn thing delivers
I could also add BFL Chip credits as a rebate on that waiting too
Add a 0.04 Btc per credit heck if were using 2012 you get double that still a currency loss though lol
That said a unit in 2013
Probably needs a difficulty calculation of 10000 T/H by the time it delivers
Assuming the growth of ASICmining
It's just BFL were talking about if we used Avalons not as bad at least they ship more than BFL
But then we need to worry about that wall of shares they are offering if we value the stock if it's the miners who cares
And well an overpriced stock holding network is more valuable than a PMB
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
That's what I've been saying all along and that's precisely why AM is overpriced. My argument is not that BFL is the greatest or that AM is the worst. My argument is simply that AM is overpriced basically because it has a monopoly.
Concedes that but no competitors = valuations are ok
I mean even BASIC is at 2 BTC right now lol after the 1:10 split 0.2 but check those stats out if you think ASIC is overvalued
I've said a few times that all mining stocks are overpriced at the moment.
Your previous comment assumed delivery did you calculate if it was undelivered
That doesn't make sense. The Jalapeno was shipped on the day I specified according to the BFL shipping blog and I added an extra week to account for shipping time.
Using a value of 100 USD a bitcoin is outlandish last years values should be forced into your calculation using 20 dollars not 100 for all your calculations.
BFL devices are priced in USD not BTC, so it makes no difference what the price of bitcoin was last year.
In fact, the backlog demands you use last years values they won't deliver 2013 before 2012
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Cost: 149 USD
Bitcoin at 20 dollars in 2012 where it should be
7.5 BTC
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
BULL!
Reality
Ordered: 2012/06/18
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
What witchcraft is this to say BFL can deliver in 1 week in your lalalalaland
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Cost: 149 USD
Bitcoin at 20 dollars in 2012 where it should be
7.5 BTC
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
BULL!
Reality
Ordered: 2012/06/18
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
What witchcraft is this to say BFL can deliver in 1 week in your lalalalaland
Standard shipping within the same country usually takes a couple of days at most. AMC's Avalons were shipped from Hong Kong to the US in 1 day.
The time value of money
7.5 BTC @ 100 dollars in current value non-refundable in this case you got delivery
Assumes rest is fine
213.48 USD - 750 dollars
Negative $536.72 keep mining
BFL does not deliver in a week using
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Is trolling
Dreaming about those Jalapeno you need to access the Silk Road more
Bought IPO ASICminer 0.1
Dividend 0.3 300% Return
Sold at 3.5 3400% Return
3.5 BTC = 350 Dollars a Share
Bought ASICminer at IPO instead of BFL Jalapeno
75 Shares 7.5/0.1
75*0.3 = 22.5 BTC Dividends
Sold 75 Shares @ 3.5
75 * 3.5 = 262.5 BTC
Gross Profit 285 BTC Less 7.5 BTC
Net Profit 277.5 BTC
277.5 BTC @ 100 = $27,750
So, get your facts straight
7.5 BTC @ 100 dollars in current value non-refundable in this case you got delivery
Assumes rest is fine
213.48 USD - 750 dollars
Negative $536.72 keep mining
BFL does not deliver in a week using
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Is trolling
Dreaming about those Jalapeno you need to access the Silk Road more
Bought IPO ASICminer 0.1
Dividend 0.3 300% Return
Sold at 3.5 3400% Return
3.5 BTC = 350 Dollars a Share
Bought ASICminer at IPO instead of BFL Jalapeno
75 Shares 7.5/0.1
75*0.3 = 22.5 BTC Dividends
Sold 75 Shares @ 3.5
75 * 3.5 = 262.5 BTC
Gross Profit 285 BTC Less 7.5 BTC
Net Profit 277.5 BTC
277.5 BTC @ 100 = $27,750
So, get your facts straight
Multiply the BFL number by 75 and you'll find that in a month from now, the BFLs would have earned at least 75 BTC more than the AM shares. Did you have a point or are just trying to reinforce mine?
A first day Jalapeno will have made more profit than an AM IPO share by the end of the month and you'd still have the Jalapeno, whereas you'd have to sell the AM share.
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
That's what I've been saying all along and that's precisely why AM is overpriced. My argument is not that BFL is the greatest or that AM is the worst. My argument is simply that AM is overpriced basically because it has a monopoly.
Right now it is not overvalued because there is no threat to the monopoly. Once one appears, if prices don't fall it may be overvalued.
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
That's what I've been saying all along and that's precisely why AM is overpriced. My argument is not that BFL is the greatest or that AM is the worst. My argument is simply that AM is overpriced basically because it has a monopoly.
Concedes that but no competitors = valuations are ok
I mean even BASIC is at 2 BTC right now lol after the 1:10 split 0.2 but check those stats out if you think ASIC is overvalued
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
That's what I've been saying all along and that's precisely why AM is overpriced. My argument is not that BFL is the greatest or that AM is the worst. My argument is simply that AM is overpriced basically because it has a monopoly.
Your previous comment assumed delivery did you calculate if it was undelivered
Using a value of 100 USD a bitcoin is outlandish last years values should be forced into your calculation using 20 dollars not 100 for all your calculations.
In fact, the backlog demands you use last years values they won't deliver 2013 before 2012
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Cost: 149 USD
Bitcoin at 20 dollars in 2012 where it should be
7.5 BTC
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
BULL!
Reality
Ordered: 2012/06/18
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
What witchcraft is this to say BFL can deliver in 1 week in your lalalalaland
The time value of money
7.5 BTC @ 100 dollars in current value non-refundable in this case you got delivery
Assumes rest is fine
213.48 USD - 750 dollars
Negative $536.72 keep mining
BFL does not deliver in a week using
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Is trolling
Dreaming about those Jalapeno you need to access the Silk Road more
Bought IPO ASICminer 0.1
Dividend 0.3 300% Return
Sold at 3.5 3400% Return
3.5 BTC = 350 Dollars a Share
Bought ASICminer at IPO instead of BFL Jalapeno
75 Shares 7.5/0.1
75*0.3 = 22.5 BTC Dividends
Sold 75 Shares @ 3.5
75 * 3.5 = 262.5 BTC
Gross Profit 285 BTC Less 7.5 BTC
Net Profit 277.5 BTC
277.5 BTC @ 100 = $27,750
So, get your facts straight
Using a value of 100 USD a bitcoin is outlandish last years values should be forced into your calculation using 20 dollars not 100 for all your calculations.
In fact, the backlog demands you use last years values they won't deliver 2013 before 2012
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Cost: 149 USD
Bitcoin at 20 dollars in 2012 where it should be
7.5 BTC
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
BULL!
Reality
Ordered: 2012/06/18
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
What witchcraft is this to say BFL can deliver in 1 week in your lalalalaland
The time value of money
7.5 BTC @ 100 dollars in current value non-refundable in this case you got delivery
Assumes rest is fine
213.48 USD - 750 dollars
Negative $536.72 keep mining
BFL does not deliver in a week using
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Is trolling
Dreaming about those Jalapeno you need to access the Silk Road more
Bought IPO ASICminer 0.1
Dividend 0.3 300% Return
Sold at 3.5 3400% Return
3.5 BTC = 350 Dollars a Share
Bought ASICminer at IPO instead of BFL Jalapeno
75 Shares 7.5/0.1
75*0.3 = 22.5 BTC Dividends
Sold 75 Shares @ 3.5
75 * 3.5 = 262.5 BTC
Gross Profit 285 BTC Less 7.5 BTC
Net Profit 277.5 BTC
277.5 BTC @ 100 = $27,750
So, get your facts straight
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
But you can't. And you won't be able to for at least 3 months, likely 4. And by that time difficulty will be 10-15X what it is now. ASICMiner is filling a niche. Yes, it is a temporary advantage, but it will continue to exist for a while yet.
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
There's no evidence whatsoever that AM will have chips better than BitFury. That's just pure hype with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
And yes, I know you can't buy a BFL and get in within a week. I've stated numerous times now that that's the reason why AM is so overpriced. Use your brain for 1 minute and think about the consequences of being able to buy an ASIC miner off the shelf from BFL or anyone else for that matter.
It's blatantly obvious that under such circumstances, AM will not sell as much hardware and it won't be able to sell that hardware for ridiculous prices, which means less income from hardware sales.
If you could buy a BFL off the shelf right now, how much would you pay for an AM USB miner?
Facepalm use a better company and we can talk
But fine
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
Did not deliver
Time Value Lost One year Bitcoin $25
Total Cost 11 BTC
1 year Later
Bitcoin 100 Dollars Unit not Delivered
Net loss $1100
Revenue generated 0
Lets compound that 1100 net loss and assume it delivered now
I believe you cannot disagree that the time value of money is a value so lets add that 1100 not your 2.74 lets also assume for simplicity sake you would have made a bit of money reinvesting that to and keep the 11
5 GH/s
274 USD, 11 BTC @ 25 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 11 = 0.45454 Mh/s per BTC
Now lets make some changes to that when applied to AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
Nothing I can do to change that
Well I guess the time value of money is nothing
Go fix the AM scale and tell me what the TOTAL Hash Rate of the whole network is currently if your going to put out numbers like that
Heres a hint
http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/
But fine
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
Did not deliver
Time Value Lost One year Bitcoin $25
Total Cost 11 BTC
1 year Later
Bitcoin 100 Dollars Unit not Delivered
Net loss $1100
Revenue generated 0
Lets compound that 1100 net loss and assume it delivered now
I believe you cannot disagree that the time value of money is a value so lets add that 1100 not your 2.74 lets also assume for simplicity sake you would have made a bit of money reinvesting that to and keep the 11
5 GH/s
274 USD, 11 BTC @ 25 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 11 = 0.45454 Mh/s per BTC
Now lets make some changes to that when applied to AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
Nothing I can do to change that
Well I guess the time value of money is nothing
Go fix the AM scale and tell me what the TOTAL Hash Rate of the whole network is currently if your going to put out numbers like that
Heres a hint
http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/
Again, as I said in a previous comment:
Quote
Actually. Profit from placing an order for BFL 1 year ago is:
Cost: 149 USD
Hash rate: 4.5 Gh/s
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Difficulties:
2013/05/25 - 2013/06/05 = 12,153,412
2013/06/05 - 2013/06/16 = 15,605,633
20313/06/16 - current = 19,507,041
Income:
2013/05/25 - 2013/06/05 = 0.1862 BTC per day * 11 days = 2.0482 BTC
2013/06/05 - 2013/06/16 = 0.1450 BTC per day * 11 days = 1.595 BTC
20313/06/16 - current = 0.1170 BTC per day * 8 days = 0.936 BTC
Total = 4.5792 BTC = 457.92 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
Electricity costs:
35W
0.2 USD per kWh
Daily cost = 0.35 * 24 * 0.2 = 0.168 USD
Total usage cost = 0.168 * 30 = 5.04 USD
Profit = 457.92 - 274 - 5.04 = 178.88 USD = 1.7888 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
Cost: 149 USD
Hash rate: 4.5 Gh/s
Shipping: 2013/05/18
Delivery: 2013/05/25
Difficulties:
2013/05/25 - 2013/06/05 = 12,153,412
2013/06/05 - 2013/06/16 = 15,605,633
20313/06/16 - current = 19,507,041
Income:
2013/05/25 - 2013/06/05 = 0.1862 BTC per day * 11 days = 2.0482 BTC
2013/06/05 - 2013/06/16 = 0.1450 BTC per day * 11 days = 1.595 BTC
20313/06/16 - current = 0.1170 BTC per day * 8 days = 0.936 BTC
Total = 4.5792 BTC = 457.92 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
Electricity costs:
35W
0.2 USD per kWh
Daily cost = 0.35 * 24 * 0.2 = 0.168 USD
Total usage cost = 0.168 * 30 = 5.04 USD
Profit = 457.92 - 274 - 5.04 = 178.88 USD = 1.7888 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
I posted that on the 24th June, so add another 3 days of profit to that, bringing the total to:
3 * 0.117 BTC = 0.351 BTC
Total = 4.9302 BTC = 493.02 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
3 * 0.168 USD = 0.504 USD
Total usage cost = 0.168 * 30 = 5.544 USD
Profit = 493.02 - 274 - 5.544 = 213.476 USD = 2.13476 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
Profit from purchasing AM shares at IPO was stated to be 3.72 BTC. So, AM IPO share holders are currently 1.58524 BTC ahead of first day Jalapeno buyers. Difficulty is set to increase by about 10% and the income from the BFL is set to be about 0.1053 BTC/day, which is 1.4742 BTC over 2 weeks. AM dividend will come to about 0.06 BTC over the same period.
That puts AM at 3.78 BTC and BFL at:
14 * 0.168 USD = 2.352 USD
2.13476 BTC + 1.4742 BTC = 3.60896 BTC
By this time next month, a first day Jalapeno will have made at least 1 BTC more profit than an AM IPO share.
So, get your facts straight.
ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
Agree with everything else you said but I wouldn't be so sure AM's chips will be *quite* as good as Bitfury's. His is pretty exceptional, but who knows if it will ship, when it will ship, how many he can get out and at what pace. AM is consistently good at all of the above, but the chip could be a fair bit less efficient and still a much better idea to support AM.
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
Mabsark, you're a funny guy. No one is forcing you to buy ASICMINER shares at 3.4 BTC each. Your calculations would be correct if the case was that BFL was sending the order in a week from ordering, if you were to order today you think that you will get your order in 6 months? I ordered a single from BFL almost a year ago and I still have nothing. ASICMINER will have chips that will be superior to Bitfury before they start shipping and I don't believe that Kncminer will actually deliver 28 nm chips.
Facepalm use a better company and we can talk
But fine
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
Did not deliver
Time Value Lost One year Bitcoin $25
Total Cost 11 BTC
1 year Later
Bitcoin 100 Dollars Unit not Delivered
Net loss $1100
Revenue generated 0
Lets compound that 1100 net loss and assume it delivered now
I believe you cannot disagree that the time value of money is a value so lets add that 1100 not your 2.74 lets also assume for simplicity sake you would have made a bit of money reinvesting that to and keep the 11
5 GH/s
274 USD, 11 BTC @ 25 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 11 = 0.45454 Mh/s per BTC
Now lets make some changes to that when applied to AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
Nothing I can do to change that
Well I guess the time value of money is nothing
Go fix the AM scale and tell me what the TOTAL Hash Rate of the whole network is currently if your going to put out numbers like that
Heres a hint
http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/
But fine
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
Did not deliver
Time Value Lost One year Bitcoin $25
Total Cost 11 BTC
1 year Later
Bitcoin 100 Dollars Unit not Delivered
Net loss $1100
Revenue generated 0
Lets compound that 1100 net loss and assume it delivered now
I believe you cannot disagree that the time value of money is a value so lets add that 1100 not your 2.74 lets also assume for simplicity sake you would have made a bit of money reinvesting that to and keep the 11
5 GH/s
274 USD, 11 BTC @ 25 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 11 = 0.45454 Mh/s per BTC
Now lets make some changes to that when applied to AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
Nothing I can do to change that
Well I guess the time value of money is nothing
Go fix the AM scale and tell me what the TOTAL Hash Rate of the whole network is currently if your going to put out numbers like that
Heres a hint
http://www.coindesk.com/exponential-leap-in-bitcoin-hash-rates/
he wants to cause doubt so he can buy in under 3.3.
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
What data am I ignoring? What numbers am I pulling out my arse?
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
In order for AM to offer similar value to a 5 Gh/s BFL in hashing power, it needs 2,500 Th/s. That's a fact and nothing you can say or do will change that. Why should people ignore facts and make decisions based on ignorance, simply because you want to increase your profit at their expense?
Thought you were pawned 4 days ago
That would be impressive if it wasn't for this wall of Undelivered Orders
Did I mention thats over 4000
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Onward
http://i.imgur.com/qorOH5y.png
Why? Because you said so? Prove the maths wrong, then you claim I've been "pawned". Like I said back then:
Quote
At an assembly rate of 2 per hour, a single person working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, could assemble those Minirigs in 39 days.
At an assembly rate of 5 per hour, a single person working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, could assemble those Singles in 119 days.
At an assembly rate of 10 per hour, a single person working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, could assemble those Jalapenos in 53 days.
With 2 people assembling Singles, 1 assembling Minirigs and 1 assembling Jalapenos, the backlog could be cleared in 60 days with an adequate supply of components.
At an assembly rate of 5 per hour, a single person working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, could assemble those Singles in 119 days.
At an assembly rate of 10 per hour, a single person working 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, could assemble those Jalapenos in 53 days.
With 2 people assembling Singles, 1 assembling Minirigs and 1 assembling Jalapenos, the backlog could be cleared in 60 days with an adequate supply of components.
A single person could assemble 10 Minirigs in an 8 hour working day. That's 150 Th/s in a month.
another troll to ignore!
Man, I am collecting trolls on here. I need a tally somewhere...
Man, I am collecting trolls on here. I need a tally somewhere...
Well said. Some people here think that anyone not participating in their circle-jerk and trying to inflate the share price is trolling. When you show them the maths to prove just how inflated the prices are, they start talking about buying in at the IPO for 0.1 BTC, like that's in the slightest bit relevant for someone looking to buy shares now.
The fact is that even if AM had a hash rate of 250 Th/s, with 400,000 shares at 3.5 BTC each, that works out to be just 178.57 Mh/s per BTC. In order for AM's mining operation to provide similar value to a 5 GH/s BFL, it needs a hash rate of around 2,500 Th/s at a share price of 3.5 BTC.
Then they go on about hardware sales and delude themselves into believing that people will continue to pay insane prices for the worst ASIC hardware on the market and that hardware sales are going to increase as will dividends.
They probably know they're full of shit and they're just trying to pump before they dump.
Why do people keep comparing AM hardware to BFL hardware? BFL hasn't shipped 90%+ of their outstanding orders and anyone ordering today won't get a product for months, possibly not even until 2014. I tell you what, I'll sell you Unicorn-PT shares that mine at 1TH/s per BTC - how many would you like?
Maybe AM is overpriced and maybe it's not, however, this has zero to do with BFL and everything to do with what you think AM can execute in the coming 6 months (not 6 days or 6 hours like some over-eager day traders).
Short of calling him a derogatory name, I'd say there's always people who just don't get it, and he's one. His math and facts on this subject were laughable earlier in this thread, thus not worth acknowledging.
Instead of saying that my maths and facts are laughable, I'd like to see you try and show that. You won't because you know for a fact that the maths is spot on and anyone can confirm that for themselves.
People are free to make their own minds up based on the information available to them. Now, they can use the solid mathematical facts which I've provided to help them with their decision, or they can listen to the nonsense which you guys spew in order to try and increase share price.
he wants to cause doubt so he can buy in under 3.3.
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
What data am I ignoring? What numbers am I pulling out my arse?
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
In order for AM to offer similar value to a 5 Gh/s BFL in hashing power, it needs 2,500 Th/s. That's a fact and nothing you can say or do will change that. Why should people ignore facts and make decisions based on ignorance, simply because you want to increase your profit at their expense?
Thought you were pawned 4 days ago
That would be impressive if it wasn't for this wall of Undelivered Orders
Did I mention thats over 4000
http://bfl.ptz.ro/
Onward
http://i.imgur.com/qorOH5y.png
he wants to cause doubt so he can buy in under 3.3.
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
Dude, it ain't working.
His "maths" is nothing more than ignoring real data from the last 8 months, and pulling numbers out of his ass.
Nothing is always cheaper than something
What data am I ignoring? What numbers am I pulling out my arse?
BFL
5 GH/s
274 USD, 2.74 BTC @ 100 USD/BTC
5,000,000,000 / 2.74 = 1.825 Gh/s per BTC
AM
400,000 shares
3.5 BTC per share
2,500 Th/s
2,500,000,000,000,000 / 400,000 = 6.25 Gh/s per share
6,250,000,000 / 3.5 = 1.786 Gh/s per BTC
In order for AM to offer similar value to a 5 Gh/s BFL in hashing power, it needs 2,500 Th/s. That's a fact and nothing you can say or do will change that. Why should people ignore facts and make decisions based on ignorance, simply because you want to increase your profit at their expense?
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