Topic: Assault weapon bans - page 26. (Read 36627 times)

Believing in god doesn't mean you are godly, and conversely, not believing in god doesn't mean you are not godly.

But I'm a bit off topic here.

M

I'd add narcissism to that list.  Feelings of entitlement, hubris and the like are among of those things that can allow the philosophically immature to put their own short term interests over the survival of their ethics.

My guess is that there is too much fear and too much greed. I strongly believe there are very few psychos who enjoy hurting people, and that the vast majority of crimes in this world are commited because of fear and greed - those are our two biggest problems IMO. Some turn to god to control the fear and greed in them, but as an atheist I never understood why. I personally don't need to believe in god to be good to the people around me, or to know that being forgiving, generous and compassionate makes me happier than living in anger.

That may be true.  It's also not how things are supposed to be.  People have used their free will to wander from God since just about the beginning. 

M

My weapon of choice would be the current "curriculum" as it will drive the greatest number to suicide.

As far as weapons go, "assault" rifle is a meaningless term. The difference between a civilian model AK-47 and ANY other semi automatic rifle is only caliber and a variance in magazine size. The most "bang for the buck" would be a .22 semi. That being said, long guns are rarely used in armed assaults unless perpetrated by governments. Handguns are more likely to be used for the obvious reasons. Disarming the lawful just invites the lawless and the ruler. No matter who presents them, the stats bear this out. Highly armed segments of the populace have low violent crime rates for obvious reasons: Criminals are opportunists. One can only defend against the true psychopath. I believe that MOST of these mass killers are NOT true psychopaths as they are too risk averse to carry out their malfeasance where there is a high likelihood of an armed response. It is no accident that mass shootings ALWAYS occur in officially disarmed places.

I remember reading a sociology book on slums some years ago.  Described slums as they were around the world, now and in the past.  Went back thousands of years.  Talked about how they had to exist, how some fraction of humanity was always going downhill just as others were going uphill.

So at least a part of what you refer to as 'moral decay' is a constant for humanity.

I suggest anti-gun folks here review some of Ayoob's Youtube videos, and learn a bit.  And note the linked video is one which has equally valid suggestions whether the homeowner has a gun or no weapon.

As I've stated before, those people will "flip out" regardless of whether are armed or not.  And if they do around me, I want to be able to defend myself and mine.  The benefit of being armed to defend myself outweighs the benefit of said flippos not being armed. 


I've said this before as well.  But I'll repeat.  A godless society leads to moral decay.  That leads to societal breakdown.  It will lead to the end of the world as we know it if we don't turn back to God.  (No, I'm not talking religion.  There is plenty of religion to go around, and you see how far it's got the world.)

There IS something seriously wrong with this world.  Not just the US, but the whole world.  What do you think it is?  I've thought about this a lot, and the only answer I've found is a lack of God.

M

Ah, this resonates. Yeah, there really isn't an "American identity" because we're almost all aliens on this land. The melting pot that is the U.S. has shit melted in from the entire world (even the metaphorical potpourri - positive contributions from people - doesn't magically make the shit disappear from the fondue), and with the history of the Roman Empire repeating itself primarily, and other shitty histories, don't act like your shit doesn't stink if you don't live in the U.S. Our shit wasn't immaculately conceived here. When you point your index finger at people, 3 are pointing back at you. Blame humanity, and stop standing and pontificating in the way of defending innocent life.

My point is that most of people is not intrinsically good or bad, the vast majority of people do both good and bad things during their life (again, those teenage soldiers in "collateral murder" enjoyed killing innocent people, but nevertheless they did not even go to trial and are now probably considered "proud and honorable war veterans" -  so, are they "the good guys", "the bad guys" or just "guys" that did something very evil? )

Nevertheless, when people is heavily armed they do huge damage when their mind flips out - and minds DO flip out,  especially in a violent society like the USA.

And seriously: the world is so fucked up where you live that you fear a random guy breaking and entering your home to rape your family? REALLY? Wow, that's fucked up. Where I live there are few rapings, and most of them are commited by people very close to the victim (relatives, friends, family), which are people the victim wouldn't shoot in any case.

And this might be slightly off topic, but I would ask you why do you think your society is so violent, both internally  (random killings, shool shootings, wackos blowing up entire buildings, etc.) and externally (executions without trial by drones, bombing countries to the stone age, guantanamo, etc.). It's an frank question, it would be interesting to know the opinion of the people living that reality first hand. In my opinion, most of that violence (yes, the internal too) is based precisely on fear.

I'm OK with you loving your truck, as long as you're OK with me loving my Prius. Deal? 

Americans are too apathetic to be proud, PR even give a shit, about the people we send to fight our wars. No one knows who's kids got sent over there. No one cares. And no one pays attention to the wars. You almost never even hear about them in the news any more. For many years now.


Well... Yeah. We saw what happened to you guys back in the 40's, what happened in Russia at the beginning of the century, what happened in Latin America over the last century, and what's happening in the Middle Easy now. Fuck that shit.

Around where I live, you don't read about anyone being murdered in their house or on the street. We had a few burglaries over the years (I think two in the last 10), and the shop down the street had armed robberies maybe three times, with no one shot or hurt, but we haven't had a murder in as long as I remember. I think most people here don't have guns either. We are safe not because we don't have guns, but because we live outside the city, in a fairly affluent neighborhood. Just maybe ten miles away, in the urban area, news of shootings and murders is a bit common. I don't know if they have more guns. I suspect not many more, since the same "you are not allowed to carry a gun at all" laws apply to them, too, but criminals still get guns, and violence is still somewhat common.

So, it's really the area, the culture, and the people. You're making the same mistake as FirstAscent, thinking that your country has fewer murders because of a lack of guns. It's not. It's because of your culture, society, and people. We just happen to have a lot of areas in US with a lot of bad people.


I think what you and many others on here are missing is that you think of US as one country with one type of people. US is huge, spanning from Portugal to West Russia, and from Poland to Greece. And it's full of many different cultures. Some are shit, some are violent, some are stupid rednecks, some are high class Victorian, some are industrial, some are high tech or Neapolitan, some are metropolis urban, and some are Robo Cop dystopean. We have English, French, Spanish, Italian, and Russian all mingling all over the place, trying to live together. So, when you think "US is a violent culture, because they like guns and have a cowboy mentality," you may be only thinking about one tiny part of US, or even be conflating a bunch of cultures together.

I didn't intend to come across as sarcastic.  I don't think sarcasm is good either.  I was simply trying to make a point.


I love his articles.

M

I have on several occasions in this thread descended into a level of sarcasm that is unwarranted, in talking with others who have the opposite position on these issues.  So here is an alternative method.

It's called the learning process.

One world expert in this is Masaad Ayoob.  Hundreds of articles on gun safety and use in the worse situation, many youtube videos.

Example - what the couple in Clockwork Orange SHOULD HAVE DONE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3zIA6vJkQ

I love my truck.  It's not the nicest truck in the world, but when I look at it, I can't help but think "that's a nice looking truck".  I love how it feels when I use it.  I love how it's always there for me when I need it.  I love how reliable it is.  Yes, the high cost of fuel makes it expensive to use sometimes, but I don't regret my decision to get it.  It serves me well, and I do my best to take care of it.

I'm sure others can relate with their vehicles, off road vehicles, and or motorcycles.

Yet substitute the word "gun" for "truck" and "ammo" for "fuel" and suddenly some people think I shouldn't be allowed to have a truck.  It's too dangerous, I shouldn't be allowed to have one, for my own good and "for the children".  And heaven forbid if someone steals it from me!  

Both are tools, both require proper training to use, and both can be abused.  There's nothing inherently evil about my truck OR my gun.

M

PS.  Yes, that makes me a truck lover.  I'm not ashamed of it, and neither should you be of yours.

I'm not sure where you are going with this.  I'm sure the overlords who run the military industrial complex seek out the lowest meanest foulest individuals for their employment.  I'm sure there are also those there who bought the government propaganda about whatever war being good and necessary, and think they are "serving their country" and making their country a better place.  To say the military as a whole is bad is an overstatement.  I would argue that those running it and controlling it are more malicious than their employees are.

An older fellow at the gas station told me once that when he joined the army, the government gave him a gun and told him to go out and kill the enemy.  Now that he's no longer employed by them, they're trying to make sure he can't own a gun to defend his own body, family, and property.

What's your point? 

M

And that point needs a bit more said.  The very plot of Clockwork Orange could not exist if there was a possibility - only a possibility - that the Drogues would encounter armed citizens.  Firearms make the little old granny, or a 100 pound woman, the superior to a gang of punks.  That's a good situation, not a bad one.

So Clockwork was cast in a Gun Control Country.  Not in the USA.

So, the military (as the ones in my example) are generally "bad people", regardless of their country of origin, right?

Just for reference, the average US citizen (note: not a "subject" in most states) has no control over the Federal government, or the goons/soldiers it employs.  Regardless, I fail to see how goons involved in war have anything to do with my right to defend myself?  Also note I certainly did not, and do not, condone the actions of those in war.

I gave one of the worse case scenarios.  If a thug, government employed or not, came to your house and decided to do bodily harm to you and yours, would you be able to stop him without a gun?  How about two thugs?  Five?  I'd put my chances at 50/50 if it was one on one.  It decreases significantly when the thug count increases.  However, add a gun to that equation, and suddenly I have something called a force equalizer.  It's not 100% in my favor, but it significantly makes it MORE likely that I and mine will survive the situation.

There are monsters in the world, two legged and four.  Your referenced YouTube video shows that.  If you choose to believe otherwise, and live believing that you are perfectly safe and that police are only "minutes away", be my guest.  I hope you never regret your decision.  I however, will not relinquish that right.  It is my job to protect my family and children, because I'm the most likely one able to do so.  Will I ever need to do so?  I hope to God in heaven not.  But if the day comes that I do, I have the ability to do so.  

There are millions like me.  And we will stand up when misinformed individuals such as yourself try to remove that right.

M

EDIT: I'd like to add that, as others have stated here multiple times, the chances of me needing to employ lethal force decreases significantly when said goons suspect that I am my family are armed, and know how to use it.