[Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 35.

LoyceV

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Quote from: PawGo on March 09, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?

Of course I saw fees were up a tiny bit when I posted this. I couldn't know they'd go up after that, but this morning fees dropped to the minimum several times again. And that's the point of this topic: consolidate inputs when you have the time to wait a bit. Don't use the minimum fee if you're ordering dinner.

Quote

Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Possibly. Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

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Quote from: PawGo on March 09, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Why would you blame LoyceV for the delayed confirmation of your transaction? Unconfirmed transaction size in the mempool can spike at anytime, and it happened some hours ago. It doesn't mean he did it on purpose.

1. You should learn to use mempool observers to determine the state of the unconfirmed transaction before you send out a transaction - https://mempool.space
2. Learn to send out transactions with RBF enabled so that in such instance, you can bump the transaction fee.

This was what happened in the last 24 hours

PawGo

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Consolidate Bump!

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Pmalek

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Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 05:20:18 AM

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

You can create different wallets for different purposes. Let's say you have one wallet for gambling. In that wallet, all your addresses have coins that went in and out of casinos, sportsbooks, and things like that. Since that is your gambling wallet, you can consolidate those inputs only for that purpose if you want. Unless, of course, you don't want to make a connection between Casino A and Casino B. You can even create a separate wallet for each casino, for example.

Another one of your wallets can be for your private investments in Bitcoin. Let's say you take a part of your salary each month and buy Bitcoin with it. After a year or two, you will have multiple inputs spread across various addresses. You can then consolidate all your investments into one address. You keep your investment wallet separate from your gambling wallet.

By now, you have probably gotten my point.
But at the end of the day, if your ultimate goal is to consolidate all the coins you own into one single address, it doesn't matter how ling it takes you to do it. If a day or a year from now you connect your gambling activities with your private BTC investment, those smaller consolidations you did before that wont really matter since the connection is there.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 03, 2022, 05:54:24 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 03, 2022, 05:36:49 AM

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

The "at least some time" part was always true. I was not expected that the problem of "indefinitely on limbo" is as big as the others stated.
However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

My experience using Electrum is that it isn't "indefinitely on limbo" but it can be a real problem. Most Electrum servers will drop the transaction after 14 days but if you don't act immediately and spend it again with a higher fee it will just come back and get stuck for another 14 days. There seem to be enough nodes on the network with different settings to ensure they always get rebroadcast. So using RBF is always best if you can.

LoyceV

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Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 07:16:11 AM

To insure addresses incoherency at all circumstances I'm thinking of using various derivation paths which would separate those addresses.

As long as you don't leak your master public key, there's no inherent link between addresses created from the same derivation path.
Keep in mind that using non-standard derivation paths may make it more difficult to recover your funds later on (when you restore your wallet from the mnemonic words).

satscraper

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 03, 2022, 05:58:04 AM

Quote

addresses which differ from each other

One more thing to consider: maybe you don't mind linking some of the addresses. If you added a label to your transaction, you probably won't mind linking the change from your Christmas shopping to the change from the last coffee you bought. But you may want to be careful not to link the change from the sex toys you bought to your kid's college fund.

To insure addresses incoherency at all circumstances I'm thinking of using various derivation paths which would separate those addresses.

LoyceV

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 03, 2022, 05:36:49 AM

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

I'm not sure if RBF is possible from Mycelium. It does however offer "CPFP". I used it once (not realizing what it meant back then). And I'm pretty sure it didn't ask for my password for this!

Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 05:20:18 AM

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

If you have multiple inputs on one address: consolidate them all at once.
If you have unique addresses for each input: any consolidation you do reduces privacy by linking the addresses together. I don't think waiting between consolidating matters much if you link the addresses eventually.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 03, 2022, 05:54:24 AM

However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

Not always: when paying a service that accepts zero-confirmation payments, you shouldn't flag RBF.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 03, 2022, 05:36:49 AM

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

The "at least some time" part was always true. I was not expected that the problem of "indefinitely on limbo" is as big as the others stated.
However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

Quote from: pawanjain on February 03, 2022, 05:36:49 AM

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

I know that Electrum for desktop does explicitly have the option to have or not RBF, but I didn't see any such setting in Mycelium.
You can see on a block explorer like mempool.space, blockchair.com (in additional info area) for any transaction that's not confirmed whether it has RBF on or not.

CPFP doesn't have to be enabled. All you have to do is ensure that at least one output of your transaction (that's usually the change) goes to a wallet under your control (so you can spend it with a very high fee in case of emergency, hence doing CPFP = child pays for parent).

Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 05:20:18 AM

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter? Thanks for your full answer.

Imho, if you have such problems, then you'll probably have to only consolidate only the related inputs. If you are not sure, consolidate only where you have multiple inputs at the same address.
If you consolidate them all, whether you do it in multiple steps or not, can easily get tracked/seen that they all belong to the same wallet.

Poker Player

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Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 05:20:18 AM

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter? Thanks for your full answer.

I guess you haven't read all 26 pages of the thread. I asked him a similar question a few pages back, and it's best not to consolidate it all in the same address and at once, as you are revealing all the Bitcoin you have.

It is better to smaller chuncks and different addresses. And then remember not to mix them when it comes to spending.

pawanjain

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Quote from: Poker Player on February 03, 2022, 01:44:46 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 02, 2022, 09:40:29 AM

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

I think that normally the mempools would start dropping the transaction after 2 weeks, but some may have different settings (longer or shorter period).

I understand him, because when I discovered this thread I started consolidating and in one case I had a transaction stuck for about a month. I can't remember if I had RBF enabled because I was even dumber than I am now regarding technical issues. I wasn't in a hurry to consolidate but having your money in a limbo for a month is not cool.

Best solution enable RBF as it has been mentioned previously.

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

Quote from: LoyceV on February 02, 2022, 11:29:28 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

satscraper

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Quote from: LoyceV on January 01, 2022, 09:45:24 AM

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter? Thanks for your full answer.

Poker Player

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 02, 2022, 09:40:29 AM

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

I think that normally the mempools would start dropping the transaction after 2 weeks, but some may have different settings (longer or shorter period).

I understand him, because when I discovered this thread I started consolidating and in one case I had a transaction stuck for about a month. I can't remember if I had RBF enabled because I was even dumber than I am now regarding technical issues. I wasn't in a hurry to consolidate but having your money in a limbo for a month is not cool.

Best solution enable RBF as it has been mentioned previously.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 02, 2022, 11:29:28 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

Once you broadcast a transaction, it is public, and there is the risk that someone will rebroadcast it if it gets "dropped". This means that if you are sending coin to yourself, you should keep backups of the private key of the receiving address, and if you are sending coin to someone else, you should either double-spend the transaction or be sure that the person you are sending coin to is trustworthy enough to return any duplicate transactions.

pooya87

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The thing about transactions and mempool is that each node has its own mempool and each node can receive a certain transaction at a certain (different) time, on top of that they can have different rules.
For example if you sent your transaction yesterday and my node came online today and asked for mempool from another node, I would receive your transaction today so 14 days later when by default other nodes drop your transaction, I still keep it for another day and will continue relaying it to other nodes. I may also not have the 14 day limit and instead keep the transaction for 30 days.

This means when you send a transaction, technically speaking, it will never "drop out of mempool" and can still be mined/confirmed if it remains valid. Which is why the only real way to get rid of a transaction is to double spend its inputs to make it invalid (eg. using RBF).

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 02, 2022, 11:29:28 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

From what I read here, in case of Mycelium you can "reload account" and try to use those funds. This would mean that it's not re-broadcasting by itself...

Clearly RBF/CPFP are easier, but some just don't use the right wallet for that (RBF not available) or simply send to others/services and no longer have the choice for CPFP.
On the other hand, if you have to RBF a consolidation transaction... it kinda lost the purpose, so just waiting it to either confirm, either get dropped can become the better option.

LoyceV

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 09:50:07 AM

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 02, 2022, 09:40:29 AM

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

I think that normally the mempools would start dropping the transaction after 2 weeks, but some may have different settings (longer or shorter period).
Also some nodes will drop the transaction if they are getting crowded (too many transactions, too much memory used, only the more expensive are kept)
So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.
And when it's forgotten, you can also tell your wallet forget it, hence getting access to those coins.

I don't have my own experience in this, but there were discussions on this when the mempool was full for long (especially in 2017/2018, and back then the period for getting dropped has been even changed). I hope that I've remembered the things correctly.

pawanjain

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 02, 2022, 03:32:31 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 02, 2022, 02:07:25 AM

You are probably correct but I didn't wanted to risk the amount getting stuck in limbo for the sake of $1 Roll Eyes

It happened once when I put a low fee and the transaction was unconfirmed for more than 18 hours.

I've had transactions that remained unconfirmed for weeks. As long as it's between your own addresses, and as long as you don't need the funds, it doesn't matter. Worst case, you can use RBF or CPFP to raise the fee a bit. Best case (and currently quite likely), it confirms quickly anyway.

I wonder why didn't I think of that. I will keep this in mind the next time I am consolidating inputs. Thanks for the tip anyway.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 02, 2022, 03:36:52 AM

1. Your funds don't "get stuck". They return to you after a while.

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

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Quote from: pawanjain on February 02, 2022, 02:07:25 AM

You are probably correct but I didn't wanted to risk the amount getting stuck in limbo for the sake of $1 Roll Eyes

It happened once when I put a low fee and the transaction was unconfirmed for more than 18 hours.
So I am kinda paranoid when it comes to transaction confirmations and don't mind spending a few dollars extra to get faster confirmations.
But I do get your point and at the same time I feel its okay to spend 2000 satoshis extra while bitcoin is still under $1million per coin Tongue

1. Your funds don't "get stuck". They return to you after a while.
2. (Since I'm slow, OP already wrote this too) For cases of emergency you may have options like RBF (if the flag is on) or CPFP (when spending the resulted transaction)
3. If you look now and then at sites like mempool.space you'll see that the risk of not getting your transaction confirmed in max 24h is very low lately.

Of course, you didn't pay much for consolidating the funds. But the purpose of this thread is to also teach the newbies do the things correctly, hence these things have to be said over and over again.

Topic: [Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 35. (Read 88546 times)