[Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 35.

bitmover

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 02, 2022, 11:56:53 AM

Quote from: bitmover on August 02, 2022, 11:22:37 AM

They added a button to minimize future fees

What if a clueless user clicks "minimize future fees" when fees are high? They'll pay much more in fees than necessary, and in the future fees could very well be lower again. If the only logic they apply is "spends the maximum number of inputs", you'll end up with only one input (and less privacy).

The idea to minimize future fees is only good if he can dow ith 1 sat/vbyte..

Certainly that is a design problem if the only objective is to reduce future fees.

Quote from: P2PECS on August 02, 2022, 01:24:41 PM

[Ledger Live implemented coin control two years ago.

Coin Control, Now Available in Ledger Live.

Two years and they still have a problem that took just a few minutes to identify

If the fees are high and the user clicks "miniseries fees in future" he will end up paying more than spending over time.

P2PECS

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Quote from: bitmover on August 02, 2022, 11:22:37 AM

I saw something interesting today that made me remember this topic

Ledger live implemented coin control, which is an amazing feature btw.

I'm glad for your excitement but Ledger Live implemented coin control two years ago.

Coin Control, Now Available in Ledger Live.

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on August 02, 2022, 11:22:37 AM

Ledger live implemented coin control, which is an amazing feature btw.

It took them long enough

Quote

They added a button to minimize future fees

What if a clueless user clicks "minimize future fees" when fees are high? They'll pay much more in fees than necessary, and in the future fees could very well be lower again. If the only logic they apply is "spends the maximum number of inputs", you'll end up with only one input (and less privacy).

Quote

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015996580-Using-Coin-control?docs=true

I'd say their "optional" unticking of inputs is crucial when your wallet selects all inputs at once:

Quote

7. (optional) Untick the checkboxes of the coins you don't want to include in the selection.

bitmover

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I saw something interesting today that made me remember this topic

Ledger live implemented coin control, which is an amazing feature btw.

They added a button to minimize future fees, merging coins. Which is exactly what LoyceV is proposing here:

Quote

Minimize future fees (merge coins): the strategy spends the maximum number of inputs so that a potential price rise does not make smaller coins economically unspendable. Indeed, if the price of a crypto asset increases too much, smaller coins may be worth less than the cost of the network fees to spend them.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015996580-Using-Coin-control?docs=true

Ledger live is the native Ledger wallet software

NotATether

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bump! Fees are low again

I'm pretty sure these periods of low fees immediately follow a couple blocks of fairly high (think of a local maximum on a graph) fees, no? It makes sense if you factor in the panic selling that happened a few weeks ago.

LoyceV

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Consolidate Bump!
Consolidate this small pocket change!

For several months, mempool has been mostly empty, but does fill up once in a while. This has happened a few timse in the past week.
Most of the time, 1 sat/vbyte is enough for a fast confirmation, but sometimes makes you wait a day.

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!
When you are in a rush, it saves a lot in fees if you can use only one input address (and ideally use native SegWit: bc1q......).

Pro tip: instead of paying 1 sat/vbyte, pay a tiny bit more (say 1.1 sat/vbyte or even less):

Quote from: BobLawblaw on May 16, 2022, 01:09:20 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on May 16, 2022, 01:06:34 PM

Quote from: BobLawblaw on May 16, 2022, 01:01:45 PM

Fucking Lightning channel waiting to open for almost 3 days now at 1sat/vb.

That's why I usually pay a fraction more than 1 sat/vbyte. 1.1 would have been enough to confirm a day and a half ago.

I don't know why I didn't think of this. Feeling kinda more retarded than usual ATM. Thanks for the great tip, brother.

This gives your transaction higher priority than all the 1 sat/vbyte transactions, which helps when someone dumps 70 MB at 1 sat/vbyte into mempool.

LoyceV

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Fees dropped again, there's now 70 MB left at 1 sat/vbyte (maybe including 1.x sat/vbyte too). If you want to consolidate this weekend: set a fee slightly above 1.

pooya87

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 12, 2022, 09:07:12 AM

If large swings in bitcoin are causing people to move coin to their exchange (and causing the mempool to get more congested), so they can sell, it would mean that people are holding their coin in their own wallets, only to entrust the exchange when they are ready to sell.

Every sell has an equal size buy. One of the reasons why the mempool size starts growing is because whenever there is a big move a lot of people go to exchanges with fiat to buy bitcoin and then withdraw it to their own wallets Tongue

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: n0nce on May 12, 2022, 05:30:53 AM

I'm not completely sold on the theory that large Bitcoin sells / buys affect the mempool, since a large portion of people still hold their funds on exchanges so they're just buying and selling 'paper Bitcoin'.

But statistics do suggest such a correlation exists and I'm very happy to see that, especially if we start seeing it more and more over time, since it would suggest higher percentage of users (or maybe just investors?) taking custody seriously and stopping to put their trust in paper Bitcoin.

If large swings in bitcoin are causing people to move coin to their exchange (and causing the mempool to get more congested), so they can sell, it would mean that people are holding their coin in their own wallets, only to entrust the exchange when they are ready to sell.

I don't think this is quite the same as holding their coin in their own wallet, and trading directly with whoever they want to trade with.

n0nce

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Quote from: LoyceV on May 12, 2022, 12:39:47 AM

This has been a while:
Image loading...

(source)

Bitcoin's price drop may have triggered some panic selling: that was about 100 vMB in transactions at 10 sat/vbyte.

I'm not completely sold on the theory that large Bitcoin sells / buys affect the mempool, since a large portion of people still hold their funds on exchanges so they're just buying and selling 'paper Bitcoin'.

But statistics do suggest such a correlation exists and I'm very happy to see that, especially if we start seeing it more and more over time, since it would suggest higher percentage of users (or maybe just investors?) taking custody seriously and stopping to put their trust in paper Bitcoin.

LoyceV

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This has been a while:
Image loading...

(source)

Bitcoin's price drop may have triggered some panic selling: that was about 100 vMB in transactions at 10 sat/vbyte.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!

It's a good point and good moment indeed, since, more than mempool being almost empty, week-end is also coming, increasing greatly the chances 1sat/vbyte transactions will be probably processed (way) before Monday.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 AM

Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

I think when price starts to increase then more people starts moving their coins. They buy bitcoin and send them to their wallets. Eventually the mempool started overloading by transactions and fees increases. Some also send their coins to exchanges to sell their coins. I have experienced it many times. When bitcoin price is stable or falling then you can send your coins using even 1 sat/b fees.

Just checked jochen-hoenicke.de and right now it's under 1 vMB for the next block.

PawGo

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Quote from: logfiles on March 09, 2022, 10:21:00 PM

Why would you blame LoyceV for the delayed confirmation of your transaction? Unconfirmed transaction size in the mempool can spike at anytime, and it happened some hours ago. It doesn't mean he did it on purpose.

It was not to blame anyone, relax. It was just to show the irony of situation that almost exactly the moment of "bump" was posted, the mempool started to grow. Coincidence, you know.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on March 10, 2022, 02:02:02 AM

I've seen LoyceV up and I've also made a transaction "at the worse time". But I was not worried at all; it was nothing urgent and I also had RBF on. Now it's processed.

Exactly, mine were confirmed too. Keep calm and consolidate.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 10, 2022, 01:42:11 AM

Quote

Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Possibly. Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

It was the middle of the week and the prices growing; of course that the chances for the low fee to stay are not so great. But one has to learn patience; if the mempool was empty during the week, (with some luck) it should be empty at least in the next week-end.
I've seen LoyceV up and I've also made a transaction "at the worse time". But I was not worried at all; it was nothing urgent and I also had RBF on. Now it's processed.

BTW, great to see you feel better, Loyce!

LoyceV

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Quote from: PawGo on March 09, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?

Of course I saw fees were up a tiny bit when I posted this. I couldn't know they'd go up after that, but this morning fees dropped to the minimum several times again. And that's the point of this topic: consolidate inputs when you have the time to wait a bit. Don't use the minimum fee if you're ordering dinner.

Quote

Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Possibly. Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

logfiles

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Quote from: PawGo on March 09, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Why would you blame LoyceV for the delayed confirmation of your transaction? Unconfirmed transaction size in the mempool can spike at anytime, and it happened some hours ago. It doesn't mean he did it on purpose.

1. You should learn to use mempool observers to determine the state of the unconfirmed transaction before you send out a transaction - https://mempool.space
2. Learn to send out transactions with RBF enabled so that in such instance, you can bump the transaction fee.

This was what happened in the last 24 hours

PawGo

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Consolidate Bump!

You have posted it in the worst moment Undecided

or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Pmalek

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Quote from: satscraper on February 03, 2022, 05:20:18 AM

Hi, I have been a btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently . One of them is related to consolidation, i.e., in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk separately at different times.

You can create different wallets for different purposes. Let's say you have one wallet for gambling. In that wallet, all your addresses have coins that went in and out of casinos, sportsbooks, and things like that. Since that is your gambling wallet, you can consolidate those inputs only for that purpose if you want. Unless, of course, you don't want to make a connection between Casino A and Casino B. You can even create a separate wallet for each casino, for example.

Another one of your wallets can be for your private investments in Bitcoin. Let's say you take a part of your salary each month and buy Bitcoin with it. After a year or two, you will have multiple inputs spread across various addresses. You can then consolidate all your investments into one address. You keep your investment wallet separate from your gambling wallet.

By now, you have probably gotten my point.
But at the end of the day, if your ultimate goal is to consolidate all the coins you own into one single address, it doesn't matter how ling it takes you to do it. If a day or a year from now you connect your gambling activities with your private BTC investment, those smaller consolidations you did before that wont really matter since the connection is there.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 03, 2022, 05:54:24 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on February 03, 2022, 05:36:49 AM

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

The "at least some time" part was always true. I was not expected that the problem of "indefinitely on limbo" is as big as the others stated.
However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

My experience using Electrum is that it isn't "indefinitely on limbo" but it can be a real problem. Most Electrum servers will drop the transaction after 14 days but if you don't act immediately and spend it again with a higher fee it will just come back and get stuck for another 14 days. There seem to be enough nodes on the network with different settings to ensure they always get rebroadcast. So using RBF is always best if you can.

Topic: [Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 35. (Read 89029 times)