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Topic: Ayn Rand - page 7. (Read 5210 times)

full member
Activity: 189
Merit: 100
April 12, 2013, 02:52:03 AM
#25
I suppose you're right, but in other ways, I'm having trouble agreeing.  Though no one person can own any word, or group of words, they are often attributed to them.  For example:

“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
― Aristotle

There are likely many variants of this quote, but this is the gist of what Aristotle was saying; though it could be attributed to anyone, we assume Aristotle is the originator of this quote.  But is he the originator of the idea?  Impossible to know (and highly unlikely, anyway.)  But we can at least say he, in a way, owns this phrase, since I cannot put my own name beneath it and claim I said it.

Now, let's say I took a string of numbers, letters, and punctuation, and created something that never existed before; couldn't I say I owned it?  If this cannot be considered property, what of the patterns that dictate a private key?  Couldn't someone own a private key?  Though it is intangible, this person is the only one who owns it, and thus, owns the bits which make up a Bitcoin; but perhaps the major flaw in this argument would be, I'm not sharing this key with anybody, therefor it is, in fact, private, as opposed to a novel, which is meant to be read by other people.  In other words, if I wrote a novel, and never let anyone else read it, could I then truly own that long string of paragraphs?  After all, if I shared my television with the community, it ceases to be private property.

I suppose this is the major dividing line between property and creation.  But it is rather funny how people can own another artist's painting.

I think the problem is with copyright, and this is something USA imposed its will on the world. I respect authors, but not copyright. As for Bitcoin Private Key it's your duty to protect it. If someone spends it, thats the end of them. We don't want a central authority protecting our BTC. Now that I think of it, I don't even like the idea of Bitcoin Police. I want full anarchy on the Internet.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
April 12, 2013, 01:45:16 AM
#24
Put simply: Ideas aren't property.

You can't own a pattern of bits. You can't own a pattern of notes. You can't own a pattern of words.

Best of all, sharing ideas, "intellectual socialism," as you put it, doesn't mean that the originator has less. Information is not scarce, and capitalism is a system for managing the distribution of scarce resources. There's no need to ration it.

I suppose you're right, but in other ways, I'm having trouble agreeing.  Though no one person can own any word, or group of words, they are often attributed to them.  For example:

“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
― Aristotle

There are likely many variants of this quote, but this is the gist of what Aristotle was saying; though it could be attributed to anyone, we assume Aristotle is the originator of this quote.  But is he the originator of the idea?  Impossible to know (and highly unlikely, anyway.)  But we can at least say he, in a way, owns this phrase, since I cannot put my own name beneath it and claim I said it.

Now, let's say I took a string of numbers, letters, and punctuation, and created something that never existed before; couldn't I say I owned it?  If this cannot be considered property, what of the patterns that dictate a private key?  Couldn't someone own a private key?  Though it is intangible, this person is the only one who owns it, and thus, owns the bits which make up a Bitcoin; but perhaps the major flaw in this argument would be, I'm not sharing this key with anybody, therefor it is, in fact, private, as opposed to a novel, which is meant to be read by other people.  In other words, if I wrote a novel, and never let anyone else read it, could I then truly own that long string of paragraphs?  After all, if I shared my television with the community, it ceases to be private property.

I suppose this is the major dividing line between property and creation.  But it is rather funny how people can own another artist's painting.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
April 12, 2013, 01:21:18 AM
#23
Ayn Rand is great. I have seen her movies (1 and 2!)


Seriously though...

Read this post:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-bitcoin-or-the-love-of-bitcoin-the-root-of-all-evil-170857

Actually toward the end, it seems that Bitcoin solves some of the bad things she expresses about money (can be taken, etc).
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 12, 2013, 12:44:22 AM
#22
Put simply: Ideas aren't property.

You can't own a pattern of bits. You can't own a pattern of notes. You can't own a pattern of words.

Best of all, sharing ideas, "intellectual socialism," as you put it, doesn't mean that the originator has less. Information is not scarce, and capitalism is a system for managing the distribution of scarce resources. There's no need to ration it.

On the flip side, enforcing IP requires government force. It asserts that I own, and can control - and extract payment for the use of - the part of your mind that contains these words, simply because I wrote them, and you read them. If that's not against "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine," I don't know what is.

Now, I get why she supported it. She was an author. She made her living assembling patterns of words. But isn't using government force to prop up a bad business model exactly what she railed against in Atlas Shrugged?

And yes, as a true champion of individual rights, she couldn't accept anarchy.
Ahh, but she did, she just didn't know she did. Individual rights are best protected by an agency that doesn't violate them itself in order to get funding. Voluntary taxation isn't taxation. It's subscription. Really, someone should have handed her a copy of this. It would have rocked her world.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
April 12, 2013, 12:14:44 AM
#21
Assuming anarchism begets intellectuals, I would hope it isn't a large problem if someone wrote a song, and another person claimed to write that song without any proof they did. 

They could claim to have written it but that wouldn't make it true.   They would be free to play it if they want and claim that they wrote it I guess.  Anybody can say anything.  Free speech.
 
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
April 11, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
#20
If one can own physical property without help from the state, why couldn't one also own intellectual property?  If an idea cannot naturally be defending in a physical realm, shouldn't it be defended in an intellectual one?  Assuming anarchism begets intellectuals, I would hope it isn't a large problem if someone wrote a song, and another person claimed to write that song without any proof they did.  It's still thievery, just of another kind; thievery in an anarchistic society could be handled without the state, couldn't it?
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 11:47:16 PM
#19
The only alternative to intellectual property is intellectual socialism.

And yes, as a true champion of individual rights, she couldn't accept anarchy.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 11, 2013, 11:00:22 PM
#18
Which brings me to my other complaint with her.... She supported intellectual property. Probably why she couldn't quite accept getting rid of government entirely.
newbie
Activity: 14
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hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 11, 2013, 10:47:24 PM
#16
Your life belongs to you. Government, through taxation, places a claim on it. I think you can do the math from there. Wink

Btw, have you read the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind?

Ayn Rand was against taxation Smiley

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/taxation.html

Huh. I wonder if she'd ever come across "The production of security" by Gustave de Molinari.
No, I haven't read it.
Goodkind's an objectivist. He does the same thing Rand did, but with dragons and magic instead of trains and metal. Better story, and less preaching, too.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:32:36 PM
#15
Your life belongs to you. Government, through taxation, places a claim on it. I think you can do the math from there. Wink

Btw, have you read the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind?

Ayn Rand was against taxation Smiley

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/taxation.html

No, I haven't read it.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 11, 2013, 10:29:58 PM
#14
Remember that quote I posted in the other thread?

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That's the core of it. She just shied away from taking that to the logical conclusion.

That's the core of Objectivist ethics. Your life belongs to you.

What's the logical conclusion?

Your life belongs to you. Government, through taxation, places a claim on it. I think you can do the math from there. Wink

Btw, have you read the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind?
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:29:01 PM
#13
Hrmm so it's very much like libertarianism, I see?

Politically, there are many similarities, but while libertarian ethics (if I have understood it correctly) is based on the non-aggression principle, rational self interest is the core of Objectivist ethics. Since, in most cases, using force is not in the self interest of the individual, there is often a convergence of political views.  
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:23:38 PM
#12
If you want a quick introduction to Objectivism, reading this summary is maybe the best place to start that I know of.

http://www.atlassociety.org/objectivism
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
April 11, 2013, 10:21:13 PM
#11
Hrmm so it's very much like libertarianism, I see?
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:19:03 PM
#10
Remember that quote I posted in the other thread?

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That's the core of it. She just shied away from taking that to the logical conclusion.

That's the core of Objectivist ethics. Your life belongs to you.

What's the logical conclusion?
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:16:26 PM
#9
Care to tell me about it?  Grin  Or specifically, her philosophy.

Her philosophy is called Objectivism. Got this from Atlas Society:

Objectivism is the philosophy of rational individualism. Objectivism holds that there is no greater moral goal than achieving happiness. But one cannot achieve happiness by wish or whim. Fundamentally, it requires rational respect for the facts of reality, including the facts about our human nature and needs. Happiness requires that one live by objective principles, including moral integrity and respect for the rights of others. Politically, Objectivists advocate laissez-faire capitalism. Under capitalism, a strictly limited government protects each person's rights to life, liberty, and property and forbids that anyone initiate force against anyone else. The heroes of Objectivism are achievers who build businesses, invent technologies (such at Bitcoin), and create art and ideas, depending on their own talents and on trade with other independent people to reach their goals.
 
Objectivism is optimistic, holding that the universe is open to human achievement and happiness and that each person has within him the ability to live a rich, fulfilling, independent life. This idealistic message suffuses Rand's novels, which continue to sell by the hundreds of thousands every year to people attracted to their inspirational storylines and distinctive ideas.
 
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
April 11, 2013, 10:13:28 PM
#8
Remember that quote I posted in the other thread?

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That's the core of it. She just shied away from taking that to the logical conclusion.

Reminds me of that famous phrase: "Live and let live."
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
April 11, 2013, 10:07:44 PM
#7
Any fans of Rand's philosophy here?
I only like Rand as a person. What a sexy, sexy woman.


Her looks didn't match har mind Smiley

Wonder what she would think of Bitcoin...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 11, 2013, 10:06:14 PM
#6
She had some good points.

She didn't get everything right, IMO, but neither did Bastiat, so that's OK.

Care to tell me about it?  Grin  Or specifically, her philosophy.

Remember that quote I posted in the other thread?

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That's the core of it. She just shied away from taking that to the logical conclusion.
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