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Topic: [BBR] Boolberry: Privacy and Security - Guaranteed Since 2014 - page 487. (Read 1210779 times)

newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
It seems that we are the first who submitted project to Cryptonote:
https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68


A more than reassuring example of your willingness to take a proactive stance in this fork. Thank you!
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
It seems that we are the first who submitted project to Cryptonote:
https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
Will you release code that compiles on OSX? I am still waiting for both Bytecoin and Bitmonero to do so....

To be honest, you won't be taken seriously until you release binaries, osx source code, and a GUI.
Yes, we will.
If we make osxbuild will you join us?Wink

It is very important to implement all core features before the network will start, to avoid so painful hard-forks, which has become a norm in most irresponsible forks. So now we really focused on this core features.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
I don't get the distribution. How do we acquire this coin? is it by mining?Or through an IPO ?
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
This defeats the very purpose of CryptoNight. 2 MB is suitable for CPU L3 cache but too much for ASICs, making distribution more even because of accessibility. 400 ms is not a big deal since transaction speed is limited by the block time.
True, we goes with different approach, but to the same goal.
The goal is not to make hash which is perfect for CPU.
The goal is to make "egalitarian proof of work", in other words: to provide almost equal voting rights to all participants.
Now traditionally approach is to have heavy hash-function, which is hard to implement in custom hardware. Cryptonote (CryptoNight) PoW hash(so called "slow_hash") goes on this way. It use some modern instructions sets coupled with memory consuming algorithm. Nowdays 2MB for ASIC seems to be almost impossible, but the world changing so fast now. And this finally could come to the same situation as Litecoin have now.
Our approach is to keep using modern instructions sets, but instead of making big scratchpad and then process whole pad for each hash call, we gonna use blockchain as one big source of random data, and will use pseudo-random parts of it for each hash.Two-phase hashing will protect from pre-calculation of all possible hashes(second phase hash randomly accessed data with salt). Blockchain after year of network's life will be consisited of about 1.5GB random data. In mining process all this data should be randomly accessible - and back to talking about ASICs - even if ASIC calculator for this hash will apear it will be almost impossible to grant paralel  access of huge count of hardware calculators to to big scratchpad- due to DRAM specific.

 
  • Donation-based crowdfunding: the project will not have premine, instamine or other unfair launch. The project has open and transparent model of project financing: part of the emission (10%) is reserved for the development of the project, BUT the rate of emission of these coins will be controled by network participants (miners). Namely, miners will indicate the amount of coins to be given to developers in each block that they found. Maximum donation size for each block is determined by nominal donations formula, based on entire emission formula. This policy allows better communication between community and project development team. Finally if a miner is not happy  - he can reduce donation to zero.
    As a tribute to technology, we have fixed royalty percentage of donation, charged to the founders of Cryptonote.

I don't understand. You've given a number (10%) but also said it can be changed by miners. Is 10% the default that miners must deliberately change?

Good luck with this fork and thanks for supporting merge-mining. I hope to see more CN coins.

10% is maximum donation size in each block. Each miner decide how much to donate himself. It can be 5%, or 9%, or even 0%.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0

About 10%, will try to make it clear: You should know, that quality development is always requires a lot of effort and work part-time is unacceptable for any serious project.
And you've all seen how much forks was launched and abandoned later, for various reasons, but mainly because the developing became economically unfeasible.

We have developed this approach (and we believe it is honest and democratic) to declare  that we are going to work on this project for a long time.
This is our proof that the project will not be abandoned.
We just want to do things we like to do, and we want to earn some money with it. And we not not ashamed of this.


I think it's an interesting way to implement a way to keep you involved, and you should absolutely not be ashamed. I just hope that you will be willing and ready, when it comes time, to suggest a recommended percentage. It's no small responsibility, asking for taxes. It requires you to be honest with yourself and everyone . . or at least convince them you are.

What I'm saying is that by making the % changeable based on the miner's choice (this is the approach I'm assuming you're taking -- correct me if i'm wrong), you will need to provide them with definitions of what every percentage that isn't 0 or 10% according to what it means to you. I could only see this working if you're capable of asking for 3.56% tax, or 7.692% tax based on definitions we all come to agree on. No taxation without representation is what's coming to mind -- are you capable of defending your right to demand that which we have every right to refuse?

I've seen a similar approach in MemoryCoin 2. Are you familiar with that? The fact that freetrade manipulated votes and pretty much dropped the coin, in addition to it losing a lot of momentum, when he got voted out is what I'm worried about. What types of parallels/differences do you expect with your coin? I'm just curious is all.

Quote
Yes, we communicate with them. As long as our project is in active development now, they have not approve it yet, but they are familiar with our concept and address for royalty was generated by them. But, of course, it doesn't mean anything yet. It is up to CryptoNote.

Awesome! I hope they like and are capable of furthering your ideas!

Quote
We know what we do with the code. If you take a look, you'll see.

It's tough to track down differences in the original code with the way you brought into your github. As far as I can tell immediately all that was removed was one character, a "-". I see there's more, but it will take time to find the changes.

Quote
We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - fill free to ask.

Sorry, I must have read that wrong the first time. I did not understand before, but it seems to make more sense now. It's still a little unclear, but I can understand better the source when you're ready.

Thanks for the responses, it's nice to see a pre-ann discussion full of more than "looks nice" or "can't wait for this one".



[/quote]
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
Will I be able to keep my HoneyPennies in my HoneyPot?

Sorry, had to get that out of the way. Seriously though why HoneyPennies? It's just awkward is all.

Also.. why are you asking for arbitrary taxes? 10% to yourselves is a bit much . . but that's not my main issue because you said it was changeable and can be turned off.
About 10%, will try to make it clear: You should know, that quality development is always requires a lot of effort and work part-time is unacceptable for any serious project.
And you've all seen how much forks was launched and abandoned later, for various reasons, but mainly because the developing became economically unfeasible.

We have developed this approach (and we believe it is honest and democratic) to declare  that we are going to work on this project for a long time.
This is our proof that the project will not be abandoned.
Unlike Bitcoin, this technology doesn't even have GUI, so there are A LOT OF work ahead.
We just want to do things we like to do, and we want to earn some money with it. And we not not ashamed of this.

Quote
My main focus is the % you've set aside for CryptoNote. Have you contacted them about that? Do they want a royalty fee? I don't see you've posted on their forum, so I'm just wondering if you're in contact with them at all.
Yes, we communicate with them. As long as our project is in active development now, they have not approve it yet, but they are familiar with our concept and address for royalty was generated by them. But, of course, it doesn't mean anything yet. It is up to CryptoNote.

Quote
Another concern here is that you will be seemingly making significant changes to the source. Have you passed any of the proposed changes through them? It's stated very clearly on their forum that they're both looking for and willing to help new implementations of CN. It would be weird to offer them royalties for something they don't agree with.

Wouldn't reducing the scratchpad and required iterations open this hash wide for easy GPU and ASIC mining? That seems counter-intuitive to what CN wants from what I was reading. I'm a little unclear of how you plan on implementing the hash apart from the short description here, so I'm at a large disadvantage.
We know what we do with the code. If you take a look, you'll se.

About PoW hash i've wrote in another answer:
Quote
We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - fill free to ask.



legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
I agree the first of these to make a wallet we are used to working with not all this command line stuff will be the first one to get to a decent size in terms of cap.

hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
Could we have a comparison of the differerence between this money and bitmonero, the first derivation of bytecoin (an thus, based on cryptonote technology too)?
Disclaimer: I mine bitmonero.
We have rush time at the moment, so later i'll make a feature comparing list with Bitmonero, but as i know, it does not have any major changes, only different emission curve and target block time, correct me if i wrong. On the other hand - fewer changes make the less chance to break something! Anyway, wish a luck to Bitmonero, it is good that someone else believe in CryptoNote.
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
Will I be able to keep my HoneyPennies in my HoneyPot?

Sorry, had to get that out of the way. Seriously though why HoneyPennies? It's just awkward is all.

Also.. why are you asking for arbitrary taxes? 10% to yourselves is a bit much . . but that's not my main issue because you said it was changeable and can be turned off.
About 10%, will try to make it clear: You should know, that quality development is always requires a lot of effort and work part-time is unacceptable for any serious project.
And you've all seen how much forks was launched and abandoned later, for various reasons, but mainly because the developing became economically unfeasible.

We have developed this approach (and we believe it is honest and democratic) to declare  that we are going to work on this project for a long time.
This is our proof that the project will not be abandoned.
We just want to do things we like to do, and we want to earn some money with it. And we not not ashamed of this.

Quote
My main focus is the % you've set aside for CryptoNote. Have you contacted them about that? Do they want a royalty fee? I don't see you've posted on their forum, so I'm just wondering if you're in contact with them at all.
Yes, we communicate with them. As long as our project is in active development now, they have not approve it yet, but they are familiar with our concept and address for royalty was generated by them. But, of course, it doesn't mean anything yet. It is up to CryptoNote.

Quote
Another concern here is that you will be seemingly making significant changes to the source. Have you passed any of the proposed changes through them? It's stated very clearly on their forum that they're both looking for and willing to help new implementations of CN. It would be weird to offer them royalties for something they don't agree with.

Wouldn't reducing the scratchpad and required iterations open this hash wide for easy GPU and ASIC mining? That seems counter-intuitive to what CN wants from what I was reading. I'm a little unclear of how you plan on implementing the hash apart from the short description here, so I'm at a large disadvantage.
We know what we do with the code. If you take a look, you'll se.

About PoW hash i've wrote in another answer:
Quote
We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - fill free to ask.


sr. member
Activity: 249
Merit: 250
Will you release code that compiles on OSX? I am still waiting for both Bytecoin and Bitmonero to do so....

To be honest, you won't be taken seriously until you release binaries, osx source code, and a GUI.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
I'm all about anonymity  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
I don't understand. You've given a number (10%) but also said it can be changed by miners. Is 10% the default that miners must deliberately change?
I guess it is similar to NXT where you can choose the amount of NXT for the transaction fee.
hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
Good News!
Blockchain-based hash is Done.
And little bug fixed in transaction-generation code.

Daemon is seemed to be working ok, but some of coretests now is broken(need to be refactored).
Next feature to do - is transaction outs with guaranteed anonymity.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Could we have a comparison of the differerence between this money and bitmonero, the first derivation of bytecoin (an thus, based on cryptonote technology too)?
Disclaimer: I mine bitmonero.

Correct me if i'm wrong but on summary these are the biggest changes

1. The use of another hashing algorythm based on the blockchain, it should fix the slow bc syncing we experience in BCN & BMR.
2. 10% of total coins going through emission to the developers so they can do their job when drinking cocktails on the Bahama's. (in other words, 10% of each block goes into the devs pockets)
3. Mixing level of coins will always be greater then 0
4. Smaller blockchain because of dust removal
5. p2p broadcasting like used in Litecoin for sending messages through the blockchain
6. Mapping of addresses to short names for easy access


For the dev. Are you changing the way the blockchain is stored? Like write it directly to a db and not a full mem load?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
  • Blockchain-based hash: unlike Bytecoin PoW hash, which works on 2MB scratchpad and takes avr 400 ms, new hash will work on blockchain random data to provide operation speed. We will use the same data primitives that are used when checking transactions in the block, to make it not slower compared to checking every transaction in the block.
This defeats the very purpose of CryptoNight. 2 MB is suitable for CPU L3 cache but too much for ASICs, making distribution more even because of accessibility. 400 ms is not a big deal since transaction speed is limited by the block time.

  • Donation-based crowdfunding: the project will not have premine, instamine or other unfair launch. The project has open and transparent model of project financing: part of the emission (10%) is reserved for the development of the project, BUT the rate of emission of these coins will be controled by network participants (miners). Namely, miners will indicate the amount of coins to be given to developers in each block that they found. Maximum donation size for each block is determined by nominal donations formula, based on entire emission formula. This policy allows better communication between community and project development team. Finally if a miner is not happy  - he can reduce donation to zero.
    As a tribute to technology, we have fixed royalty percentage of donation, charged to the founders of Cryptonote.

I don't understand. You've given a number (10%) but also said it can be changed by miners. Is 10% the default that miners must deliberately change?

Good luck with this fork and thanks for supporting merge-mining. I hope to see more CN coins.[/list]
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
Could we have a comparison of the differerence between this money and bitmonero, the first derivation of bytecoin (an thus, based on cryptonote technology too)?
Disclaimer: I mine bitmonero.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
Will I be able to keep my HoneyPennies in my HoneyPot?

Sorry, had to get that out of the way. Seriously though why HoneyPennies? It's just awkward is all.

Also.. why are you asking for arbitrary taxes? 10% to yourselves is a bit much . . but that's not my main issue because you said it was changeable and can be turned off.

My main focus is the % you've set aside for CryptoNote. Have you contacted them about that? Do they want a royalty fee? I don't see you've posted on their forum, so I'm just wondering if you're in contact with them at all.

Another concern here is that you will be seemingly making significant changes to the source. Have you passed any of the proposed changes through them? It's stated very clearly on their forum that they're both looking for and willing to help new implementations of CN. It would be weird to offer them royalties for something they don't agree with.

Wouldn't reducing the scratchpad and required iterations open this hash wide for easy GPU and ASIC mining? That seems counter-intuitive to what CN wants from what I was reading. I'm a little unclear of how you plan on implementing the hash apart from the short description here, so I'm at a large disadvantage.

hero member
Activity: 976
Merit: 646
So this is not written from scratch, basically modified Crypto-note. Is it like Scrypt change into Scrypt-N?
Exactly this we wrote in announce:
Quote
....Cryptonote represents absolutely new code, made from scratch,....

Let me explain our approach to hashing: main idea of cryptonote hash is to have memory consuming algorithm (2MB scratchpad) coupled with more complex instructions set -  considered that it protects from ASIC. But it makes hash function works really slow, that is bad for connectivity - slower blockchain synchronisation  (PoW for each block takes avr 400ms, because used to cover whole scratchpad), and it is bad for security - it is possible to make attacks via burning your CPU for nothing (sending of fake blocks).

We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - feel free to ask.

PS: I'm very sorry for my terrible english, my native language pretty different as well as my way of thinking. So, i ask all native english speakers to forgive me)
Hope the language of ideas and "rocket since" will make mutual understanding more simple and easier.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Hello! Send me a message.
It hurts my ears when someone claims loudly that he has implemented something from scratch and it is going to be released in a few days and be better when something on the market. Either you are really good/geneous developers (possibility 1%) or it is another blah blah blah (possibility 99%).
Agree with you man. So many opinionated announcements that come to nothing, not to mention the banal scams.

But, to be clear - Cryptonote technology already released in Bytecoin project (do not be confused with the same named Bitcoin fork, meaning bytecoin.org - cryptonote-based project), and seems to be working, we belive it working.
And even with the belief in this technology, we took off rose-colored glasses and wrote Shortcomings

I'm ready to bet on 1 BTC that we'll start our network in april 28.

So this is not written from scratch, basically modified Crypto-note. Is it like Scrypt change into Scrypt-N?
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