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Topic: [BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012 - page 351. (Read 1070171 times)

sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
I have a problem with the Mac version. Each time I try to start simplewallet it returns this error:

Code:
Error: wallet failed to connect to daemon (http://localhost:8081). Daemon either is not started or passed wrong port. Please, make sure that daemon is running or restart the wallet with correct daemon address.

Why is it so?

Obvious question: do you have dytecoind running (Bytecoin daemon) and synchronized?
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
Quote
What is the reason that the bytecoin miner had been de-optimized prior to public release?

Ask the devs. All I know is that there was no "public release" as you see it.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198


The issue involved someone, apparently in Russia (Russian language forum site), who discovered that the bytecoin miner (subsequently cloned to MRO) had apparently been de-optimized prior to public release and could be made several times faster with relatively simple changes. It was one of the MRO developers (NoodleDoodle) who promptly released an un-deoptmized miner (subsequently back ported to bytecoin), and later released additional optimizations.

You won't find a more fair launch of any coin no will you find team behind a coin with more integrity than the Monero team in my opinion (though as a minor disclaimer, I don't know all of them outside of our work on Monero -- the work on Monero has been 100% above board and community-focused).



What is the reason that the bytecoin miner had been de-optimized prior to public release?

Ask the bytecoin developers. Oh wait, they're hiding somewhere.

We can't prove this 100%, but several highly qualified programmers (including at least one not associated in any way with the Monero project) have looked at the code and found it difficult to accept any other explanation. Draw your own conclusions.

full member
Activity: 137
Merit: 100


The issue involved someone, apparently in Russia (Russian language forum site), who discovered that the bytecoin miner (subsequently cloned to MRO) had apparently been de-optimized prior to public release and could be made several times faster with relatively simple changes. It was one of the MRO developers (NoodleDoodle) who promptly released an un-deoptmized miner (subsequently back ported to bytecoin), and later released additional optimizations.

You won't find a more fair launch of any coin no will you find team behind a coin with more integrity than the Monero team in my opinion (though as a minor disclaimer, I don't know all of them outside of our work on Monero -- the work on Monero has been 100% above board and community-focused).



What is the reason that the bytecoin miner had been de-optimized prior to public release?
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
My concern with Monero is that optimized miner was always closed-source until a week in production. It happened each time the optimization takes place.

However, this is not a Monero thread, as far as I know.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-qcn-quazarcoin-full-privacydata-protection-egalitarian-pow-600658

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

Where does your information on pre-mine of Monero come from? Please cite a source.

Not sure where his source is, this is my calculation:

Monero block height is 46,000 with 1 min blocks.

46,000 min / hours / days = 32 days.

Not sure how much of a pre-mine that is, the coin has been out for 3 weeks.

The coin launched on April 18, so 32 days is almost exactly on the nose.

There was a public announcement a week before.

Quote
Look at Bytecoin though, they have been out in the clear for 9 weeks yet have over 1.8 years worth of blocks.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-qcn-quazarcoin-full-privacydata-protection-egalitarian-pow-600658

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

Where does your information on pre-mine of Monero come from? Please cite a source.

There is no source. There was no premine or instamine.

The issue involved someone, apparently in Russia (Russian language forum site), who discovered that the bytecoin miner (subsequently cloned to MRO) had apparently been de-optimized prior to public release and could be made several times faster with relatively simple changes. It was one of the MRO developers (NoodleDoodle) who promptly released an un-deoptmized miner (subsequently back ported to bytecoin), and later released additional optimizations.

You won't find a more fair launch of any coin no will you find team behind a coin with more integrity than the Monero team in my opinion (though as a minor disclaimer, I don't know all of them outside of our work on Monero -- the work on Monero has been 100% above board and community-focused).

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-qcn-quazarcoin-full-privacydata-protection-egalitarian-pow-600658

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

Where does your information on pre-mine of Monero come from? Please cite a source.

Not sure where his source is, this is my calculation:

Monero block height is 46,000 with 1 min blocks.

46,000 min / hours / days = 32 days.

Not sure how much of a pre-mine that is, the coin has been out for 3 weeks.

Look at Bytecoin though, they have been out in the clear for 9 weeks yet have over 1.8 years worth of blocks.
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 250
"Trading Platform of The Future!"
33zer0w0lf,
I've got something very weird going on BCN's new pool: http://bcn.extremepool.org

My hash rate jumps up and down from 20 h/s to median 200-300 h/s and even sometimes up to 900 h/s.

I also see that the pool's total hash rate is also jumping up and down. Is it a bug? What could be the reason? Thank you!
It is a bug in the pool software where sometimes the same share is submitted many times. That causes individual and pool hashrate to fluctuate a lot. A stratum pool is being worked on which will fix these bugs.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
33zer0w0lf,
I've got something very weird going on BCN's new pool: http://bcn.extremepool.org

My hash rate jumps up and down from 20 h/s to median 200-300 h/s and even sometimes up to 900 h/s.

I also see that the pool's total hash rate is also jumping up and down. Is it a bug? What could be the reason? Thank you!
sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-qcn-quazarcoin-full-privacydata-protection-egalitarian-pow-600658

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

Where does your information on pre-mine of Monero come from? Please cite a source.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
I have no idea why people are supporting this one over a fairer release (Monero)

I have an idea on that. I support the coin because Bytecoin was developed by someone who is capable of creating breakthrough innovations. The coin is alive, the devs are still contributing. I prefer supporting the team, which has the expertise to push this technology forward. After all, there wouldn't be Monero at all if there was no Bytecoin.

The word "fair" is highly subjective. Fair for whom? It's the information asymmetry that drives our world. If nobody bothered to notify you personally on the release of a brilliant new technology, it doesn't make the launch unfair. I've been writing already that there was something in Monero's backyard, so here we have QCN. This story will always be recursive as there're always be those that are dissatisfied with distribution of wealth, resources, or knowledge.

And you know, it doesn't really bother me which CryptoNote coin succeeds. The more significant thing is to keep innovative track. I hope Monero will join this real race, not the imaginary one.

NOW WE'RE TALKING!! Smiley

This thread is full of posts that suggest people to mine Monero over BCN, but I have always steered clear of them and have told them to leave this thread alone.
I don't support BCN clones for the same reason I don't support Bitcoin clones.

Creating a clone and brag about 'fair distribution' is easy. Come to me when you 'innovate' something and you've got my hash power.

Sure thing, and what you're doing is ok. (as long as you don't deceive people)

I just want people to know what they are getting into.

If a newcomer is ok mining a coin with 80% pre-mine then cool, but please don't deceive them!

If you guys add to the Bytecoin homepage and the front page of this thread:

"Bytecoin has been mined for 1.8 years but was only made known to the world a few months ago. Enjoy the ride"

Then I will leave your thread alone!

Lol.

I'm not sure anybody in this thread controls the website. Moreover, it has "2 years" on the very top. And speaking about "known to the world", it is not equal to "known to me", right?
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
pooler cpuminer 2.3.3 is the latest for Win7 x64, right?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
Is there any development going on for this coin?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
I have no idea why people are supporting this one over a fairer release (Monero)

I have an idea on that. I support the coin because Bytecoin was developed by someone who is capable of creating breakthrough innovations. The coin is alive, the devs are still contributing. I prefer supporting the team, which has the expertise to push this technology forward. After all, there wouldn't be Monero at all if there was no Bytecoin.

The word "fair" is highly subjective. Fair for whom? It's the information asymmetry that drives our world. If nobody bothered to notify you personally on the release of a brilliant new technology, it doesn't make the launch unfair. I've been writing already that there was something in Monero's backyard, so here we have QCN. This story will always be recursive as there're always be those that are dissatisfied with distribution of wealth, resources, or knowledge.

And you know, it doesn't really bother me which CryptoNote coin succeeds. The more significant thing is to keep innovative track. I hope Monero will join this real race, not the imaginary one.

NOW WE'RE TALKING!! Smiley

This thread is full of posts that suggest people to mine Monero over BCN, but I have always steered clear of them and have told them to leave this thread alone.
I don't support BCN clones for the same reason I don't support Bitcoin clones.

Creating a clone and brag about 'fair distribution' is easy. Come to me when you 'innovate' something and you've got my hash power.

Sure thing, and what you're doing is ok. (as long as you don't deceive people)

I just want people to know what they are getting into.

If a newcomer is ok mining a coin with 80% pre-mine then cool, but please don't deceive them!

If you guys add to the Bytecoin homepage and the front page of this thread:

"Bytecoin has been mined for 1.8 years but was only made known to the world a few months ago. Enjoy the ride"

Then I will leave your thread alone!
sgk
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
!! HODL !!
I have no idea why people are supporting this one over a fairer release (Monero)

I have an idea on that. I support the coin because Bytecoin was developed by someone who is capable of creating breakthrough innovations. The coin is alive, the devs are still contributing. I prefer supporting the team, which has the expertise to push this technology forward. After all, there wouldn't be Monero at all if there was no Bytecoin.

The word "fair" is highly subjective. Fair for whom? It's the information asymmetry that drives our world. If nobody bothered to notify you personally on the release of a brilliant new technology, it doesn't make the launch unfair. I've been writing already that there was something in Monero's backyard, so here we have QCN. This story will always be recursive as there're always be those that are dissatisfied with distribution of wealth, resources, or knowledge.

And you know, it doesn't really bother me which CryptoNote coin succeeds. The more significant thing is to keep innovative track. I hope Monero will join this real race, not the imaginary one.

NOW WE'RE TALKING!! Smiley

This thread is full of posts that suggest people to mine Monero over BCN, but I have always steered clear of them and have told them to leave this thread alone.
I don't support BCN clones for the same reason I don't support Bitcoin clones.

Creating a clone and brag about 'fair distribution' is easy. Come to me when you 'innovate' something and you've got my hash power.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
./minerd  -a cryptonight -o http://bcn.extremepool.org:5555 -u
-p x -t <# of threads>

Thank you, 33zer0w0lf, mining does work! Although I had to google some dependencies in order to compile the miner.

Code:
sudo apt-get install -y build-essential automake libcurl4-openssl-dev pkg-config
git clone https://github.com/LucasJones/cpuminer-multi.git
cd cpuminer-multi
./autogen.sh
./configure CFLAGS="-O3"
make

and after the compilation, just like you've said:

Code:
./minerd  -a cryptonight -o http://bcn.extremepool.org:5555 -u -p x -t <#-of-threads>
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
Please vote BCN on MintPal so it can make it to that exchange!

https://www.mintpal.com/voting#BCN
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
Also if you want to work out the age of the chain, this might not be exact for actual age in years, but its timed in years as that is how much has been mined, to give you an idea.

Please let me know if I screw up the calculation.

Bytecoin height: 483532

Target: 120 seconds.

Chain age = (120 seconds * 483,532 blocks) = 58,023,840 seconds.

58,023,840 seconds = 967,064 minutes.

967,064 minutes = 16,117.733 hours.

16,117.733 hours = 671.5 days.

671.5 = 1.83 years.

1.83 years old block chain is something, which is very close to the launch date of July 4, 2012.

Quote
I have no idea why people are supporting this one over a fairer release (Monero)

I have an idea on that. I support the coin because Bytecoin was developed by someone who is capable of creating breakthrough innovations. The coin is alive, the devs are still contributing. I prefer supporting the team, which has the expertise to push this technology forward. After all, there wouldn't be Monero at all if there was no Bytecoin.

The word "fair" is highly subjective. Fair for whom? It's the information asymmetry that drives our world. If nobody bothered to notify you personally on the release of a brilliant new technology, it doesn't make the launch unfair. I've been writing already that there was something in Monero's backyard, so here we have QCN. This story will always be recursive as there're always be those that are dissatisfied with distribution of wealth, resources, or knowledge.

And you know, it doesn't really bother me which CryptoNote coin succeeds. The more significant thing is to keep innovative track. I hope Monero will join this real race, not the imaginary one.
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 250
The ring signature is a little trickier:  The cryptography itself is simple (I'll probably add a version using SECP256k1 to Sipa's libsecp256k1 once he figures out how he wants to handle hash functions for determinstic signing and schnorr signatures), but the overall implementation requires an additional spent coin set which is another utxo like data structure— this also isn't so bad, but its completely incompatible with pruning. Effectively Bitcoin full nodes just need to track the currently spendable coins in order to validate blocks, spending coins reduces the set, creating outputs increases it. Right now that data is only about 300MBytes and it grows much more slowly than the blockchain (even with people gunking it up with forever unspendable data storage outputs). In the bytecoin approach transactions create spendable coins and transactions also create spent keys, there is no 'reduces'— it grows forever. Breaking pruning is pretty big scalability hit in the long run.  (Incidentally, all other cryptographic anonymity systems have similar long term scaling challenges)

As far as I understand CryptoNote, there is indeed a drawback of having to store the spent outputs in the block chain, but this is done through key images, which shouldn't be too large (I read it somewhere on forum.cryptonote.org, but couldn't find immediately to prove). In any case, there will always be full nodes capable of doing it, while some light nodes might depend on the former. There should be scalability issue at some point, but not in the short term for sure. And yes, Zerocoin has potentially the same problems.

Do you think it is possible to make a soft/hard fork with 2 key points?

1) so that the ring signature doesn't use the keys, which are, let's say, more than a year old.
2) so that key images are stored more compact like in zerocash?

That could be a solution to the scalability issue.

Quote
That maybe it's just handing a mining hardware manufacturing monopoly to a near-duopoly of multiple billion dollar CPU making companies that have patent warchests that probably preclude competition? And then there is the advantage they that botnet herders have… It's hard to say. I don't really believe "CPU mining" is actually possible— even if you somehow found a function that was suitable as a good POW but made perfect use of cpu hardware, you can usually get a factor of 2-10 in better (power, mfg) efficiency by cutting out fat (e.g. IO) and optimizing for mining use.  Since mining is ideally perfect competition even 'small' advantages can push all the competition out of the market. This also applies to the R&D, a lot of CPU costs to customers are NRE— cost to Intel and AMD are much lower marginally.

I think the whole point is to make ASICs economically unviabile. It will always be possible to create a special purpose device, which is cheaper than CPU, but if the break even point is millions or billions of those devices per year, no manufacturer would even bother going into this business. I doubt you can restrict mining to CPU-only by design, but if you apply business considerations, this might actually work out.

It's not just the research, which would be costly. On the other hand, there are already billions of computers, which are suitable for CryptoNight PoW, while I'm not aware if there is any other device close to a standard CPU's speed.

Did you read about CryptoNight in general?
https://cryptonote.org/inside.php#equal-proof-of-work


By the way, the algos behind Bytecoin are somewhat complicated according to my taste. Do you know if any of your colleagues or friends are related to the coin itself or CryptoNote's research? There is a crypto-lib by Daniel Bernstein, which is used in the source code, and also Adam Back has been already writing about Bytecoin quite some time ago. Do you know them? Who else could be capable of creating Bytecoin?
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