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Topic: Best demonstrated efficiency: 1290 Mhash/Joule - page 2. (Read 20540 times)

legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1497042

OP and title need to be corrected: It's closer to 100MH/s/J. It seems that Avalon uses 620w, not the 400W they've been claiming.
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
No, Jeff did not. However Yifu quoted a very narrow range of 6.6-6.7 Watt per Ghash/s. So presumably he measured this on a real Avalon. I am sure Jeff will confirm soon.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
Time to refresh this thread. Avalon demonstrated 150 Mhash/Joule. This is twice better than the second best chip, developed by Virginia Tech, achieving 73 Mhash/Joule (obviously not Bitcoin-optimized).
Did Jeff post power consumption numbers somewhere?
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
Time to refresh this thread. Avalon demonstrated 150 Mhash/Joule. This is twice better than the second best chip, developed by Virginia Tech, achieving 73 Mhash/Joule (obviously not Bitcoin-optimized).
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
Ok. Assuming 120W for the 54 Ghash/sec device, that's 450 Mhash/Joule at 90nm.
Therefore Tom's standard-cell ASIC should in theory scale to 450 / ((65**2)/(90**2)) = 863 Mhash/Joule at 65nm.
If Tom went further and made it full custom, he would need a mere extra 16% efficiency gain to match BFL's 1000 Mhash/Joule.
But I would assume that making it full custom would have a lot more potential than a +16% efficiency gain.

So it seems:
- (1) either Tom's power efficiency estimates are optimistic
- (2) or BFL's power efficiency estimates are pessimistic
- (3) or BFL's full custom design has not been that well optimized after all
- (4) or Tom's standard cell design is extremely well optimized for being standard cell tech

I would say (4) is very likely since he hired state-of-the-art ASIC design firms. Knowing he had a very well optimized implementation would also explain why he initially did not believe BFL's 1000 Mhash/s claim as he probably assumed they were using std cell tech, and 65nm std cell tech should only be capable of 863 Mhash/Joule.
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=4.msg132#msg132

Quote
We are expecting the 27Gh/s units to use between 50-60 watts and the 54Gh/s units to use between 100-120 watts give or take

this is estimated data - and will not be completely correct but it gives you a ballpark and as close as an estimate as our competitor friends have on their units
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
I think it was a couple days ago that he clarified he meant the 54 GH unit, and in the last day he stated more directly that the 54 GH unit should use 100-120w, and the 27 GH unit 50-60w.
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
The bASIC power consumption estimate from Tom "8-10 devices per 1000W PSU" is too vague to make a statement at this point... For starters he did not say if he was talking about 24Ghash/s or 57Ghash/s devices.
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
mrb: What are your thoughts about the bASIC line using a little less than 2x the power per GH/s of the BFL SC line? You'd expect a 90nm chip to use twice the power of a 65nm chip all else being equal, right? Then what did BFL gain by going full custom? Shouldn't the BFL be significantly more efficient than 2x?
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
The Block Erupter 130nm project now claims an estimate of 122 Mhash/Joule: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1072887

This is such an improvement, that ~500 Mhash/Joule should be possible at 65nm. Combined with the fact that BFL disclosed that Jalapenos will be wall-powered, after all, I think this makes it very, very likely that BFL is developing at 65nm and not 45nm.

I was right. One. More. Time. I correctly predicted 65nm and BFL confirmed it.

That has been my assumption as well, though I probably got the idea from you mrb.
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
The Block Erupter 130nm project now claims an estimate of 122 Mhash/Joule: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1072887

This is such an improvement, that ~500 Mhash/Joule should be possible at 65nm. Combined with the fact that BFL disclosed that Jalapenos will be wall-powered, after all, I think this makes it very, very likely that BFL is developing at 65nm and not 45nm.

I was right. One. More. Time. I correctly predicted 65nm and BFL confirmed it.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Quote
And everyone is 100% sure they aren't going to have an external power supply? A small wall wart?

Yep, it's in the prototype photo 1 USB + 1 mini USB (so you don't mix them up one presumes)

mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
However you have also made a convenient assumption that it will utilise two usb ports to power it, allowing it to have twice as much power, for a max of 5 watts. That is abit of a stretch to assume that and why the math to me does not add up for it to do 3.5 Gh/s at 2.5W and is what I stated.

See Lethos, I was right. I correctly predicted 3 months ago that it would use 2 USB ports, and BFL confirmed it:

The Jalapeno draws it's power from two USB port connectors.  Both need to be connected to achieve the full 4.5 GH/s performance.  (At the users discretion, a single USB connector can be used if it has a 2nd head split off as is common for use with laptop DVD drives).
hero member
Activity: 592
Merit: 501
We will stand and fight.
Maybe OP could be updated with ngzhang's claim of "Avalon" simulation:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1200284

160W for 60 Ghash/s ~ 375 Mhash/Joule


this is only a simulation, maybe a big difference between this and the final product.
after the post-simulation, we will have a  much accuracy power value.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
Maybe OP could be updated with ngzhang's claim of "Avalon" simulation:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1200284

160W for 60 Ghash/s ~ 375 Mhash/Joule
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
The Jalapeno is indeed USB powered.  The alternate plug-in refered to by the CSR is the option of an alternate source of power for the heat plate.
Just what I want, EXTRA heat right on top of my electronics!
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
Argh. OP updated again.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
The Block Erupter 130nm project now claims an estimate of 122 Mhash/Joule: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1072887

This is such an improvement, that ~500 Mhash/Joule should be possible at 65nm. Combined with the fact that BFL disclosed that Jalapenos will be wall-powered, after all, I think this makes it very, very likely that BFL is developing at 65nm.

OP updated.

The Jalapeno is indeed USB powered.  The alternate plug-in refered to by the CSR is the option of an alternate source of power for the heat plate.

mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
The Block Erupter 130nm project now claims an estimate of 122 Mhash/Joule: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1072887

This is such an improvement, that ~500 Mhash/Joule should be possible at 65nm. Combined with the fact that BFL disclosed that Jalapenos will be wall-powered, after all, I think this makes it very, very likely that BFL is developing at 65nm and not 45nm.

OP updated.
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
I read you too quickly (my bad) and thought you meant 0.5W/2.5W = 20% was the variance. I was denying this.

Yes, ±5% is quite typical for a consumer electronics power spec, and should be implied in all the numbers I quoted, and does not change my point (787 Mhash/J ±5% is still greater than 700 Mhash/J).
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