Best demonstrated efficiency: 1290 Mhash/Joule - page 5.

mrb

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Quote from: mtminer on July 26, 2012, 09:52:19 AM

Quote from: Dexter770221 on July 26, 2012, 02:45:08 AM

Blah, BFL is talking about ~1750MH/Joule Wink

Jalapeno, USB device 3.5GH/s @ 2W from USB Wink

I think you need to go the other way start at what a US based 20 AMP 120V power plug could supply and work backwards using the 1 THash box.

15 AMPs * 120V == 1800 watts, 80% eff would give 1,440 watts available.

~695MH / Watt

1440W is a good assumption! This number matches almost exactly my OP which estimates the Jalapeno at 700 Mh/Joule by using 2 USB plugs for power.
This 700 Mh/Joule number makes so much sense that it has become my best bet as to what the SC product line will produce.
700 Mh/Joule is even doable at merely 45nm per my OP.

Jalapeno SC: 5W via 2 USB plugs, 3.5 Ghash/s -> 700 Mhash/J
Single SC: 57W, 40 Ghash/s -> 700 Mhash/J
Mini Rig SC: 1440W, 1 Thash/s -> 700 Mhash/J

Syke

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Quote from: MrTeal on July 26, 2012, 04:45:37 PM

If BFL is producing a full custom chip on a 32nm node I will liquify my hat in a blender and eat it. I could see 65nm, but anything lower would be a stretch. AMD and NVIDIA just left the 40nm node this year, and AMD and GloFo is still producing their CPUs on 32nm.

BFL is "a market leader in microprocessor design", so they're clearly on par with AMD and Nvidia. I expect BFL will use 28nm.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: MrTeal on July 26, 2012, 04:45:37 PM

If BFL is producing a full custom chip on a 32nm node I will liquify my hat in a blender and eat it. I could see 65nm, but anything lower would be a stretch. AMD and NVIDIA just left the 40nm node this year, and AMD and GloFo is still producing their CPUs on 32nm.

Quoted for the lulz, even though I agree.

MrTeal

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If BFL is producing a full custom chip on a 32nm node I will liquify my hat in a blender and eat it. I could see 65nm, but anything lower would be a stretch. AMD and NVIDIA just left the 40nm node this year, and AMD and GloFo is still producing their CPUs on 32nm.

Coinoisseur

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I see, but even so implementing this research core in any form at a higher MHz target and larger die (more SHA units) would be cutting edge R&D especially with 28nm which even major companies are supply constrained on.

Quote from: rjk on July 26, 2012, 03:41:14 PM

What I meant was that the processes are mature. As long as you have a good designer, you aren't going to have any issue getting them fabbed. Thus my comment about whether or not it was "experimental".

eldentyrell

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felonious vagrancy, personified

Quote from: mtminer on July 26, 2012, 09:52:19 AM

Jalapeno is going to need a wall wart mystery solved?

No, they explicitly said it was "USB powered". What you describe is "wall wart powered".

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 26, 2012, 03:38:28 PM

28nm theoretical Mh/W have been tossed around. Very rosy to think BFL has a VC source willing to pony up 10s of millions up front for that kind of chip development. IMO, given the Bitcoin market 65nm makes the most sense with 45nm, better odds if it's a FPGA->ASIC copy, being an outside possibility.

And the SHA design in OP is definitely experimental/research.

Quote from: rjk on July 26, 2012, 03:21:18 PM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 26, 2012, 03:08:31 PM

ITT: People graciously try figuring out how BFL could possibly make good on their ASIC promises by putting them on par with the best MH/J rate and best W/die size rates currently known in the research field (which usually takes 3-10 years to materialize into products if it comes to fruition at all).

Dude... 65, 45, and even 35 nm are far from experimental. 22nm is current, and we aren't even looking at those numbers, although they would have great performance.

What I meant was that the processes are mature. As long as you have a good designer, you aren't going to have any issue getting them fabbed. Thus my comment about whether or not it was "experimental".

Coinoisseur

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28nm theoretical Mh/W have been tossed around. Very rosy to think BFL has a VC source willing to pony up 10s of millions up front for that kind of chip development. IMO, given the Bitcoin market 65nm makes the most sense with 45nm, better odds if it's a FPGA->ASIC copy, being an outside possibility.

And the SHA design in OP is definitely experimental/research.

Quote from: rjk on July 26, 2012, 03:21:18 PM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 26, 2012, 03:08:31 PM

ITT: People graciously try figuring out how BFL could possibly make good on their ASIC promises by putting them on par with the best MH/J rate and best W/die size rates currently known in the research field (which usually takes 3-10 years to materialize into products if it comes to fruition at all).

Dude... 65, 45, and even 35 nm are far from experimental. 22nm is current, and we aren't even looking at those numbers, although they would have great performance.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 26, 2012, 03:08:31 PM

ITT: People graciously try figuring out how BFL could possibly make good on their ASIC promises by putting them on par with the best MH/J rate and best W/die size rates currently known in the research field (which usually takes 3-10 years to materialize into products if it comes to fruition at all).

Dude... 65, 45, and even 35 nm are far from experimental. 22nm is current, and we aren't even looking at those numbers, although they would have great performance.

Coinoisseur

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ITT: People graciously try figuring out how BFL could possibly make good on their ASIC promises by putting them on par with the best MH/J rate and best W/die size rates currently known in the research field (which usually takes 3-10 years to materialize into products if it comes to fruition at all).

SgtSpike

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Quote from: mtminer on July 26, 2012, 09:52:19 AM

Quote from: Dexter770221 on July 26, 2012, 02:45:08 AM

Blah, BFL is talking about ~1750MH/Joule Wink

Jalapeno, USB device 3.5GH/s @ 2W from USB Wink

And everyone is 100% sure they aren't going to have an external power supply? A small wall wart?

USB 3 is 4.5 W

I think you need to go the other way start at what a US based 20 AMP 120V power plug could supply and work backwards using the 1 THash box.

15 AMPs * 120V == 1800 watts, 80% eff would give 1,440 watts available.

~695MH / Watt

Jalapeno is going to need a wall wart mystery solved?

BFL confirmed (in a thread around here somewhere) that the Jalepeno would run off of the USB port as it's power source, and that it would not require USB 3.0. Of course, until it actually happens, I'd still call that speculation, but it is at least BFL's goal to have it run only on the USB power alone.

punin

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Maybe it'll be 3.5Gbit/s per chip? Grin

Maybe they had a "misunderstanding".

rampone

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dafq is goin on

Y Cable, like some harddrives?

Dexter770221

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Quote from: mtminer on July 26, 2012, 09:52:19 AM

Quote from: Dexter770221 on July 26, 2012, 02:45:08 AM

Blah, BFL is talking about ~1750MH/Joule Wink

Jalapeno, USB device 3.5GH/s @ 2W from USB Wink

And everyone is 100% sure they aren't going to have an external power supply? A small wall wart?

USB 3 is 4.5 W

I think you need to go the other way start at what a US based 20 AMP 120V power plug could supply and work backwards using the 1 THash box.

15 AMPs * 120V == 1800 watts, 80% eff would give 1,440 watts available.

~695MH / Watt

Jalapeno is going to need a wall wart mystery solved?

Or Jalapeno will be downclocked and downvolted a little bit to met USB specs. Mystery solved? We may speculate till dawn....
My guess is just like that: Single chip is designed to deliver 4GH/s @ 4W. SC Single will contain 10 of this chips, Mini rig 250. Jalapeno downclocked and downvolted to 3,5GH @ 2,5W.

mtminer

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Quote from: Dexter770221 on July 26, 2012, 02:45:08 AM

Blah, BFL is talking about ~1750MH/Joule Wink

Jalapeno, USB device 3.5GH/s @ 2W from USB Wink

And everyone is 100% sure they aren't going to have an external power supply? A small wall wart?

USB 3 is 4.5 W

I think you need to go the other way start at what a US based 20 AMP 120V power plug could supply and work backwards using the 1 THash box.

15 AMPs * 120V == 1800 watts, 80% eff would give 1,440 watts available.

~695MH / Watt

Jalapeno is going to need a wall wart mystery solved?

mrb

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Quote from: Glasswalker on July 26, 2012, 08:37:21 AM

A quick note, it should be confirmed (I haven't the time to read it directly) if this article is talking about MHash/s as in SHA256 Hashes, or MHash/s as in Bitcoin hashes... Remember, a single Bitcoin Hash is 2x SHA256 Hashes... Meaning 1200MHash/s in raw SHA256 Hashes is actually only 600Mhash/s in bitcoin speak.

Neither. It talks about SHA-256 speed in Gbit/sec. See "Note 1" in my first post.

Glasswalker

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A quick note, it should be confirmed (I haven't the time to read it directly) if this article is talking about MHash/s as in SHA256 Hashes, or MHash/s as in Bitcoin hashes... Remember, a single Bitcoin Hash is 2x SHA256 Hashes... Meaning 1200MHash/s in raw SHA256 Hashes is actually only 600Mhash/s in bitcoin speak.

Cablez

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I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

Shouldn't this be in mining speculation?

I find it tedious that these types of discussion can even continue. There are only 2 probable outcomes: BFL meets their stated specs, which are incomplete or they fail to get what they sold everyone on.

nuff said.

pieppiep

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So you should add to the question the minimum hashrate for a chip.
But you don't know yet how many chips BFL is using in the new products.

mrb

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Quote from: pieppiep on July 26, 2012, 04:00:27 AM

If you are just looking for best Mhash/Joule I'll downclock my intel Q6600 from 2.4GHz to 2.4MHz so it is 1000 times slower and uses 1,000,000 times less energy so it gets a 1000 times better MHash/Joule rating.

Except you just increased your cost per Mh/s by a factor 1000x.

This is why GPUs cannot compete with FPGAs even when underclocked/undervolted. Because you still pay full price and end up running the hw at a fraction of the speed it is capable of.

Topic: Best demonstrated efficiency: 1290 Mhash/Joule - page 5. (Read 20587 times)