Topic: BFL 6 May 2013 ASIC Update - page 4. (Read 23357 times)

I got avalon chips too but its a little too early to be gloating about it. Lot of things can happen before they ship.

The people that lose their money if that happens is their own fault. I've said it myself over a dozen times to get refunds from BFL months and months ago. If the pre-order customer didn't request it and they lost their money they were so warned.

 

If you never receive a product that was promised... I get to change the definition.

If I am hoping that someone will produce a DIY board as promised and hasn't asked for a DIME... I get to change the definition.

What is "VAPOURWARE" to me? It is something promised that isn't delivered but has been paid for.

I have not BOUGHT a product. I bought chips. They who have a PRE ORDER with BFL and no shipping date... what is vapourware to you?

The real test will be who actually gets something working first. If those who bought chips don't get boards it isn't vapourware it is a chip buy. If you don't your BFL before I get my boards and chips married and hashing I will be back here to post just that.

That is difference in my mind. I haven't LOST anything by buying chips unlike putting down money for something that is still a prototype 10+ months after it was ordered?

Dude, you should have played the Google Lottery!

If you bought the right Lottery ticket last week you dont have to care about BTC any more... 

If you bought GPUs a year ago instead of this scam stuff, and mined BTC, LTC and all the other alt coins out there you probably would have made more than a frikkin Miningrig will get you from when it is delivered until the end of time.

lol

"HEADQUARTER"   

ASIC NRE is very expensive, and the entire undertaking is very risky.  Lots of sunk cost and assumed risk worth repaying.  

10$ for a custom made IC for SHA256 is not bad at all - You can pay hundreds for mass produced commercial ICs.

I don't think you know what 'vaporware' means.

LOL! Great work there!

BFL

Big

Fucking

Lies

/Thread!

I thought 2000 USD. Anyway, they might be planning for a real ramp up, exit garage sales and get into "real" factory mode. They surely impose a monopoly rent as you point out, but I'd rather they stay healthy and deliver their ASICs than not. My capitalist view (as a business, I want support after the sale too...)


For a minute I read "BFL's" instead of "BKK's".  pfiuuuu

YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a crime on so many levels..... of how the world works and business practices in general that these guys where still operating

It is time for these fraudsters/conmen to disappear from the crypto community

The clock has started countdown 90 days to the death to BFL !!!

Lets hope they use some of those funds for Gen 2. As well as a node shrink or two.

I don't mind Avalons strategy too much. They have encouraged people to take their designs and create new markets in distant regions. Eventually we (the customer) won't have to depend directly on Avalon to get our ASIC products. We will eventually depend on their affiliates taking the chips and creating their own designs and platforms.

Right now the Avalons from the Avalon team are becoming more like reference designs. They are doing the opposite of what BFL is doing. BFL is proprietary and secret. No one will ever buy their chips or make a design of their own. There won't ever be any real competition from BFL or a market that isn't just BFL itself.

What Avalon is effectively doing is encouraging startups and entrepreneurs who can and eventually will create their own designs and improve upon it. You will have alot more options a little later on. You won't always have to depend on the Avalon Team to ship out your products. They will only mass manufacture the chips and send them to the other companies who will then integrate them into their own products and create more variety and complexity.

---------------------

For example,

It is a multi-million dollar profit market for the first guy who designs an FPGA + ASIC miner who can not only do BitCoins but also various ALT coins. The Avalon Team can continue to improve their BitCoin ASICs while other who are willing to go further can integrate designs that include ALT Coin mining.

And if they really wanted to maximize their profits, they would artificially delay shipment of round two and three, while collecting more BTC780 10k chip bundle orders.

That way, they keep people from getting scared away from ordering the chip bundles by a skyrocketing network difficulty.

Not that I necessarily believe that's what they are doing. But that would certainly increase their profits...

This^^

You can't assume that the retail price people are paying for Avalon's chips reflect Avalon's cost. Probably half what they're selling them for is profit.

Hence, Avalon's cost per unit is going to be less, overall, than the DIYers who are paying a markup on the chips, and then a markup on the boards to those who have spent the time to create them.

Avalon is pocketing the markup on the chips, as well as the rest of the hardware components on what they sell, so they'd be turning a handsome profit even just selling at what DIY would cost.

I'm fully capitalist, so I have no problem with them making as much profit as the market will bear, but comparing DIY cost as a basis for determining Avalon's cost is short-sighted at best. Avalon is selling for so much more because they CAN. They have a product in hand that nobody else can really compete with at this point. Why would they sell it any cheaper? If/When BFL gets their asses in gear and starts shipping a product, Avalon will have to bring their prices down to whatever the market forces are driving.

[Full disclosure, I have an order with BFL, and I have a chip order in with Avalon]. Personally, I hope BOTH companies start shipping product again ASAP, as I'd like to be mining with both.

Avalon was expecting to make a profit when they planned to sell round 2 for $1500.

They were expecting competition at that point. When the competition failed to materialize, they jacked the price up as high as they believed they could get people to swallow. Everything above $1500 is monopoly rent for Avalon.

BKK's price comes close to Avalon's because the majority of their cost is Avalon's chips, which are probably making Avalon even more monopoly profit than their finished products.

I have no problem with Avalon making the money that they're making. They deserve it for beating the competition to market by such a huge margin of time. But don't think their prices are anywhere even close to their costs.