Topic: BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680 - page 6. (Read 41051 times)

All I said about ASICMiner was this:


That's it. You're lying when you say otherwise.

You really are starting to come across like a raving lunatic. And you've never explained why you're so invested in defending a company that you agree is fucking their own customers. It's like you're just angry about the fact that people are upset that a company is fucking their own customers. It's totally bizzare.

YOU said ASICMiner customers deserved to get fucked for not doing their research, yet BFL customers DON'T deserved to get fucked for their short-sightedness.  YOU are the one calling it both ways.  I am not defending either side, I am just trying to get you to stop contradicting yourself.

At least with the block erupters people know what the hashrate and difficulty growth will look like when they get them, since they'll be getting them right away. A lot of people buy them just for fun.

There is nothing unintentional about what you described. You just keep saying BFL customers deserved to get fucked because they were greedy and stupid.

And like I said.  That's not a defense of BFL.

You're just telling everyone they should never do business with you, since you think there's nothing wrong with fucking your customers.

We can argue semantic all day.  Let's get back to the meat of it:

1) Jun 2013.  ASICMiner opens sales of USB sticks at 2BTC.  as just stated above $1M and assrape.
2) Jun 2012.  BFL starts taking orders and quickly has so many that only the 1st week of them will profit AT CURRENT BTC RATES.

Which is the worst company attitude?  Unintentionally screwing your customers cause their greed will kill the BTC profitability or ass-raping your customers?

and yet it is STILL RoI.

We can argue semantic all day.  Let's get back to the meat of it:

1) Jun 2013.  ASICMiner opens sales of USB sticks at 2BTC.  as just stated above $1M and assrape.
2) Jun 2012.  BFL starts taking orders and quickly has so many that only the 1st week of them will profit AT CURRENT BTC RATES.

Which is the worst company attitude?  Unintentionally screwing your customers cause their greed will kill the BTC profitability or ass-raping your customers?

A negative ROI. Saying that something has negative ROI "has ROI" is like saying someone in debt "has money" because negative money is still money.

A negative ROI. Saying that something has negative ROI "has ROI" is like saying someone in debt "has money" because negative money is still money.

and yet it is STILL RoI.

No. You're confused. Because you're an idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

Let's do the math, since it seems like you're not capable of it yourself.

If you spend $100, and you earn back $1 Then your net profit is $-99.

$-99/$100 * 100% = -99%

Seriously, how fucking stupid are you?  This is a commonly used, mathematically defined, investment term with a specific meaning.

Yes, every miner has an ROI.  But in some cases, those ROIs are NEGATIVE.

For a single-period review divide the return (net profit) by the resources that were committed (investment):[2]
    return on investment (%) = (Net profit / Investment) × 100
or
    return on investment = gain from investment/ cost of investment[1]

Here is the formula for ROI:
ROI = (gain from investment - cost of investment) / (cost of investment)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp
ROI is a measure of profit, not revenue.
"In the above formula "gains from investment", refers to the proceeds obtained from selling the investment of interest. Return on investment is a very popular metric because of its versatility and simplicity. That is, if an investment does not have a positive ROI, or if there are other opportunities with a higher ROI, then the investment should be not be undertaken."

So your example would yield a -99% ROI.

I'm sure I will regret this, but I'm going to answer your question anyway.

927w with a platinum PSU. This is the one area in which BFL is clearly superior. With an identical PSU(Antec 1300w platinum) four BFL Single SCs draw just under 1100w and hash at around 375Gh/s(after mods to their crappy stock cooling). The minirig SC has twin EVGA classified 1500w PSUs and it draws almost exactly 2x this amount.

If you think this is a huge advantage for BFL gear however, then you'd be mistaken. Bitfury has claimed that the first of their finished products have shipped today and this will mark the end of BFL's superiority in the efficiency department, even while the vast majority of their customers victims still await the products they paid for months ago. Operating cost differences between these two products will end up being nearly meaningless IMO. This is why I've chosen to add more hashing power in the form of cheaper and more readily available secondary market Avalons.

No, it's entirely real.  Did you miss the part where I told you my batch 2 avalon has paid for itself, In bitcoin?  

I spent bitcoins I had because I wanted more bitcoins then I started with, and now, I have them.


Which doesn't matter if your goal was to increase the number of bitcoins you have. Which I told you, is the reason I bought an ASIC. Otherwise I would have just kept my bitcoins.


What the fuck are you talking about?  In may of 2011 $1 million dollars could have bought you more then 1.5TH/s. If you'd kept the money the bitcoins you mined would probably be worth $50-100 million dollars.  

The timing matters.  In fact, I think, but I haven't done the math - if you'd spent $1 million dollars on GPUs in June of 2012 instead of spending $30k on a BFL mini-rig, you'd actually have already made a profit by now, given the price increase.  That's the incredible irony of this.   The people who ordered Mini-rigs at that point in time would have been better off buying GPUs.

I agree people shouldn't buy block erupters expecting to get an ROI. I think most people just buy them for fun.


Again, are you smoking crack?

Why would someone want to just give free money to BFL in exchange for nothing of value? If they want to give to charity there are lot of worthwhile options.

If you're not a little greedy, there's no reason to care about bitcoin at all.  There's no reason to care about money. If they weren't greedy they would never have bought ASICs in the first place. Why would they?


BFL is damned because their mistakes are in the past.  There is nothing they can do now to rectify the situation, that's what happens.  That's how time works. Mistakes can't always be undone, and the damned stay damned.


I just told you. My Batch2 Avolon has already paid for itself, in BTC. And it certainly is true that no one should buy a pre-order at this point in time. Anyway people use "ROI" around here to mean positive ROI. If you make less then you pay it's a negative ROI.


Ignorance of what?

You're just spewing total nonsense.

You claim to be defending BFL, and yet you say they fucked their customers. You admit their customers will never ROI, and that BFL never intended for them too.  You say the customers should have figured it out, and then you say their customers are only complaining because they're "greedy".  Except if they weren't greedy they never would have bought an ASIC in the first place.

That's like saying you shouldn't complain about getting fucked because the only reason it hurt is because you're too uptight for the giant dick to fit comfortably in your asshole.

You're not defending BFL, certainly not in a way that would make sense to the people they fucked.  We seem to agree on the facts, it's just you don't think there's anything wrong with ripping people off if they're "greedy" and stupid.

It's totally bizarre.

How can you compare the returns achievable from $1 million worth of GPUs, versus a $30k ASIC?

How can you compare the returns achievable from $1 million worth of GPUs, versus a $30k ASIC? For starters, if you bought that many gpu's, you'd probably still be plugging them in...

For second, you would have drastically altered network difficulty, asicminer world have deployed that many more chips, and with difficulty that much higher, less people wotks have even checked out bitcoin, so you probably wouldn't have seen the spike that we got. I keep saying, hindsight works great, but not for driving ahead.... Nobody but nobody world have thought bitcoin would go from $6 to 130 let alone $240 during the intervening time frame. At that point where it was $6, recall that bitcoin had LOST 80% of its value from its previous high. The prices we see now were not in the cards. And if someone did know what the future entailed, shame on them for spending their bitcoins back in 2012 when they were poised for a 4000% increase.