Bumping, alas I told you so #1.
Fun fact numero uno: Nobody got asics before the block reward drop.
Topic: BFL ASIC is bogus - page 2. (Read 22410 times)
At first bfl is claiming 1GH/Jule and if I were to bet that shouldn't be off more than 10% (Their own margin)
Second, I gave a thorugh explanation why I am not betting on this above. (I don't wanna give them additional publicty and I'm broke)
This thread it mostly about BFLs business model not the principal difficulties of producing an efficent chip. I am not hitting on their competion which has way more sane estimations.
And seeing that even you are willing to give them such a magnifcent margin for failure only strengthens my point.
Second, I gave a thorugh explanation why I am not betting on this above. (I don't wanna give them additional publicty and I'm broke)
This thread it mostly about BFLs business model not the principal difficulties of producing an efficent chip. I am not hitting on their competion which has way more sane estimations.
And seeing that even you are willing to give them such a magnifcent margin for failure only strengthens my point.
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
Didn't really need to provide proof. Was just letting you know that they're not always as expensive as people think.
You could have made that up on the spot though...
That's why I asked for proof.
I could have, that's why I'm not really fond of forums. Nothing said really has much validity until there's "proof".
Have you heard of the Deep Crack cryptography ASIC? It's actually probably one of the most relevant ASIC projects to bitcoin mining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker
This was done back in 1998 and with a price tag of under $250k. (this was not the project I was talking about previously, but it seemed more relevant). Believe it or not these technologies have become more advanced, and cheaper.
I'm aware of this.
At first the EFF surely would get a better deal than a commercial entity.
Second we don't know how that translates into todays performance. Estimations done on a existing SHA-256 ASIC (a design with multiple methods in it for evaluation of performance) show that BFLs hash/jule figures are an exeragation.
And at last the EFF surely has support from many people in academics and industry, especially in terms of knowlege and manpower. There is no way BFL can compete with that.
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
Didn't really need to provide proof. Was just letting you know that they're not always as expensive as people think.
You could have made that up on the spot though...
That's why I asked for proof.
I could have, that's why I'm not really fond of forums. Nothing said really has much validity until there's "proof".
Have you heard of the Deep Crack cryptography ASIC? It's actually probably one of the most relevant ASIC projects to bitcoin mining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker
This was done back in 1998 and with a price tag of under $250k. (this was not the project I was talking about previously, but it seemed more relevant). Believe it or not these technologies have become more advanced, and cheaper.
I'm aware of this.
At first the EFF surely would get a better deal than a commercial entity.
Second we don't know how that translates into todays performance. Estimations done on a existing SHA-256 ASIC (a design with multiple methods in it for evaluation of performance) show that BFLs hash/jule figures are an exeragation.
And at last the EFF surely has support from many people in academics and industry, especially in terms of knowlege and manpower. There is no way BFL can compete with that.
Here's the thing, I have no problem taking the odds from either of you... what I do have a problem with is tying up my BTC for so little return for weeks at a time. I mean, tying up $1200 to win $12 for a few weeks is just not lucrative for me. I mean, it's a guaranteed win for me, but the lost revenue of not having access to that money does not make it desirable for me.
So, I'm still interested in an escrowed bet. What amount should I be willing to put in escrow for you to match that amount 500:1? 
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
Didn't really need to provide proof. Was just letting you know that they're not always as expensive as people think.
You could have made that up on the spot though...
That's why I asked for proof.
I could have, that's why I'm not really fond of forums. Nothing said really has much validity until there's "proof".
Have you heard of the Deep Crack cryptography ASIC? It's actually probably one of the most relevant ASIC projects to bitcoin mining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker
This was done back in 1998 and with a price tag of under $250k. (this was not the project I was talking about previously, but it seemed more relevant). Believe it or not these technologies have become more advanced, and cheaper.
We'll see who has the last laughs 
PS: Yes I'm in it just for the lulz and I explained my refusal to bet in detail above. (Besides I'm broke so unless you offer me significant leveraged betting doesn't even sound appealing to me)
PS: Yes I'm in it just for the lulz and I explained my refusal to bet in detail above. (Besides I'm broke so unless you offer me significant leveraged betting doesn't even sound appealing to me)
Oh yeah, friedcat is even more shady than BFL and all other mining related biz together. 
An GLBSE asset which lets you rent self-made asic mining power. That is so shady I don't even start trying to educate the suckers falling for it. Did I mention he is in China?
An GLBSE asset which lets you rent self-made asic mining power. That is so shady I don't even start trying to educate the suckers falling for it. Did I mention he is in China?
Well, since you refuse to bet in http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665 (apparently poor confidence in your own claims) I will just say this: I will come back to this thread to tell you "I told you so a company as small as BFL can make ASICs that efficient (>350 Mhash/Joule)". See you in the near future
PS: Korbman: when I started mining, it was with 4x5970 and the difficulty was 12251. I was solving a block every 7 hours. Yes it was that easy...
Oh yeah, friedcat is even more shady than BFL and all other mining related biz together.
An GLBSE asset which lets you rent self-made asic mining power. That is so shady I don't even start trying to educate the suckers falling for it. Did I mention he is in China?
An GLBSE asset which lets you rent self-made asic mining power. That is so shady I don't even start trying to educate the suckers falling for it. Did I mention he is in China?
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
ElectricMucus, you need to chill out and accept that producing ASICs can be "a few hundred thousand dollars".
Here is a claim from another ASIC manufacturer (friedcat for his Bitfountain company's asicminer project): only ~$150k for 130nm and ~$500k for 65nm.
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
Didn't really need to provide proof. Was just letting you know that they're not always as expensive as people think.
You could have made that up on the spot though...
That's why I asked for proof.
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
Didn't really need to provide proof. Was just letting you know that they're not always as expensive as people think.
my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
Unless you provide some proof of your claim it stands alone. As a claim nothing more...
Once more, certainly possible with FPGA conversion chips.
Interestingly even BFLs competition (which could turn out to be fraudulent too btw) agrees with me...
Look at http://forum.bitsyn.com/viewtopic.php?id=6 under power consumption and then take a deep breath.
My point being: BFL the way it is presented to us certainly hasn't got the resources and funds to develop custom chips.
They do now.
By custom chips I mean Full Custom ASICs, that is what they are claiming they are making. That costs about 10M USD for starters.
There might be some way to get it cheaper if you have the ties but unless whoever behind BFL is some engineering wizard he doesn't even have the means to develop it.
One of my co-workers produced an ASIC for under a couple hundred thousand dollars. It took a couple years but that was essentially because he had never done it before. It seems everytime people mention ASICs they takes someone's WAG and multiply is a couple times.
And by the way, that price included a few thousand chips off the line.
I have mined 25+ thousand BTC the last 2 years. I couldn't care less of the comparatively tiny financial profits of this bet.
Pics or it didn't happen
Can I interest you in a fully insured no risk 7% ROI per week investment opportunity?
haha +1
Did he just said 25 + 1000 so like 1025btc
joking 
I have mined 25+ thousand BTC the last 2 years. I couldn't care less of the comparatively tiny financial profits of this bet.
Pics or it didn't happen
Can I interest you in a fully insured no risk 7% ROI per week investment opportunity?
haha +1
I have mined 25+ thousand BTC the last 2 years. I couldn't care less of the comparatively tiny financial profits of this bet.
Can I interest you in a fully insured no risk 7% ROI per week investment opportunity?
It is not my intention to taunt when I tell people to put their money where their mouth is by betting 'disagree' on http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665 I tell them that to hopefully stop (or at least reduce) the length of the debates on the forum.
No, your intention is this:
Quote
Here is the breakdown of the distribution:
45% goes to the bet winners proportional to their bets.
45% goes to the bet winners proportional to their weighted bets.
5% goes to the user who submitted the bet.
5% goes to the site.
45% goes to the bet winners proportional to their bets.
45% goes to the bet winners proportional to their weighted bets.
5% goes to the user who submitted the bet.
5% goes to the site.
I have mined 25+ thousand BTC the last 2 years. I couldn't care less of the comparatively tiny financial profits of this bet.
I was the first who called Pirateat40s Savings and Trust a "classical HYIP scam", right after his OP.
Yet I didn't take part in Matthews bet - get it?
Yet I didn't take part in Matthews bet - get it?
Being right about something in Bitcoin-land being a scam is somewhat less than miraculous. Your performance seem to be somewhat on par with getting heads three times in a row on a coin flip.
Yes, you are right I fully agree.
However: The performance of the masses here is significantly less efficient than a coin flip. There is the tendency to believe in any proposed business model - a manifestation of wishful thinking.
Ya, it's odd to me that so many people to whom the Bitcoin solution might appeal are prone to be as careless/naive as they seem to be. One explanation is, perhaps, that we don't really notice the people who are not so, and thus it just seems like more of a notable percentage of the community than it actually is.
I was the first who called Pirateat40s Savings and Trust a "classical HYIP scam", right after his OP.
Yet I didn't take part in Matthews bet - get it?
Yet I didn't take part in Matthews bet - get it?
Being right about something in Bitcoin-land being a scam is somewhat less than miraculous. Your performance seem to be somewhat on par with getting heads three times in a row on a coin flip.
Yes, you are right I fully agree.
However: The performance of the masses here is significantly less efficient than a coin flip. There is the tendency to believe in any proposed business model - a manifestation of wishful thinking.
+1
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