Topic: BiblePay - New Coin Launch - Official Thread - page 38. (Read 119854 times)

Did you read the page #1 ? Seems you judge by the name.

Is there any religion behind this new coin launch? They shouldn't use the bible to earn income.

The letter writing is already rewarded (although I note that the reward seemed to magically appear in my pool rewards, it doesn't appear to be added to the reward history).  So there is both a carrot and a stick to encourage people to write letters.

The interface to do so it not as intuitive as it could be though.  I consider myself very competent with IT (having a Computing degree and many years IT support and systems administration experience), but I still had  to ask how to write a letter.  Maybe even just adding some more instructions to pages would help users with how to navigate and read profiles/write letters?

I also agree that the web-mining option would be a great way to lower the barrier to entry.  One thing though - it must be OPT IN.  By that I mean that there must be something that the user has to do to start it, so they are not unaware that it is running, in a very clear manner; e.g. a nice big shiny "Start Mining BiblePay" button and a notice that it will be (or 'is' if it only appears after clicking that button) using CPU resources while they are mining until they either close the page or click "Stop Mining".  Making it start running as soon as you navigate to the page may lead to negative publicity, like The Pirate Bay and a couple of other sites received.

I think this is an excellent idea! If it can be implemented in a simple way, like browsing to a certain url to start mining, I can really see this going places. I can imagine that a lot of technically unskilled people would like the idea of helping others by 'donating' a bit of cpu-power.

Just a heads up about ActiveX:


It looks like there is a more modern and less painful way to do it with node.js, so if this could work for BiblePay, that would be great news. You can look at the Monero web mining project and see if it can be utilized:

https://coinhive.com/

https://github.com/cazala/coin-hive

Very simple for the user and it just works off the bat. In every browser, without plugins, even on mobile phones. It can be tested immediately on the website. It's UI can even be easily customized etc.

And since recently it works for any stratum pool (although BBP pool doesn't look like it's using stratum). But maybe this code could be forked and tailored for BiblePay specifics, if someone is familiar with node.js. I would be willing to help since I have some small experience with node.js, but I don't know where to start, because I don't know the requirements of BiblePay.

Yes, other pools are hopefully coming (mine I'm still struggling with but have two days off, so it's project job one!).  Two things could be handy, one, capping the max non-writer at 5% or less (3% would be my suggestion).  Second, advertising better that letter writing is subsidized by the "penalty" fee.  Side note, it may be too long ago, but I cannot find the letter subsidy in my history (nor for that matter the pool subsidy from the Oct 1 issue).  Might be because the fields in distribution history look sortable but I cannot do that in firefox.

The longer term solution is to have a definitive reward system for writing and the ability to subsidize it directly from the operating fund.  Nothing huge, but a few hundred per approved letter up to once every 30 days.  Have the MN give the letter writing priviledge for Orphan 47 to User 113.  And really the letter writing should be split from the function of the pool, to a function of a dedicated website or sub-domain. 

Hey eh eh, thats not a bad idea.  When Togo brought it up originally I thought it was an in wallet web browser.  The reason I didnt give that much thought is there are a couple problems with (the feature that opens the qt5 in-wallet browser and navigates to a page, such as a branded trading page that is really running on the c-cex web server)- but as you know we have the accountability button but that opens in firefox (thats a different browser launch type).

Anyway, moving on to this one-click mining idea, actually that is not too bad of an idea for those who really dont want to deal with a wallet.  Normally this would be kind of hard to pull off, because you need either an ASIC standalone miner, or GPU, and all the settings, but with us, we have the integrated QT miner, and in a browser like IE, you could technically have an activeX control signed by biblepay, create the wallet.dat file and launch an instance in the pool.  It would probably be better for us to start with a one-click package manager that automates the whole install, configures the miner, creates a pool account for you and launches.  But I could see people losing their coins, not knowing what a wallet.dat is, not being able to log into the pool to pull the BBP out, etc.  I think we would need at least a concise guide and some rudimentary understanding so they keep coming back.  But anyway, if anyone wants to take the ActiveX idea and go to town you could build one using the QT compile and the info known by one of the new pools.

I note that since this has been discussed on here there have been ~2 more letters and a bunch more upvotes for letters.

I think we need to make a clear set of instruction on how and why to write letters (not just for the fees, but because these kids need and love to receive these letters).

Then, once a month of so, we should create a post here, on reddit, on the forum, and anywhere else where people read and learn about biblepay, reminding then to write and vote for the letters.

We have plenty of miners, sometimes we need a reminder

Re: - Web Browser mining of Monero

Full disclosure: I don;t understand enough to know how viable this would be, or how efficient it would be, but:

In my opinion this would be amazing for the simple reason that it would (give an option to) simplify mining for ANYONE. Imagine if my mum, who can turn on a computer and click Google Chrome but not much else, could simply click a link in her web browser and then she is mining, helping the orphans/charity, supporting the network, and possibly earning for herself.

If it could be set up to either enter your BBP address OR directly mine to the charity address then that would be perfect. In this way we can say to Christians in churches everywhere, if you want to help these chairties, simply click this link and leave it running. Simple.

Now this sounds different than you normal new crypto coins.  I will interesting to see out it turns out.  I will have to look into to this more... THANKS for the update

Could someone explain this? I'm just curious what happened here. Since the blockchain seems to be working perfectly, maybe it's some kind of a latency issue when the block explorer picks up information about blocks? Otherwise, miners wouldn't be able to find a new block with a two iterations old hash, right?

Thanks! The thing that worked for me was to reindex the wallet.

Regarding the retirement accounts, let me explain some of the nuances that I am taking for granted that might not be apparent to the user.

One, adding features to the actual wallet (not the web site), is a level of magnitude harder than web programming.  Anything we successfully pull off that lasts for the long term that adds value to the blockchain should be considered a breakthrough.  Im searching for the most useful and novel features that can be implemented without security problems.  In-wallet trading is one of them that I don't see in other wallets.  Off the bat, I think a QT-wallet with in-wallet trading between distinct assets (one with a distinct value per coin traded for another distinct value is a novel breakthrough - for a feature in the RPC).

Moving on, I want to establish that the money supply quantity of biblepay would be independent of rBBP.  In one year, we would have 900 million BiblePay,  and 96 million retirement coins (two distinct assets with distinct value per coin).  The BBP would be deflating at a rate of 1.5% per month (18% per year) while the retirement emission would be deflating at 1% per day (365+% per year).

The real world use case for this is:  giving the user the ability to store fiat in a deflating account.  I dont know of a place that I can take $1000 of fiat, and store it in a deflating asset deflating at such a rapid rate.  This gives holders of rBBP the propensity to lock up some free BBP  as an investment (hence the name retirement account) instead of spending the free BBP.  Looking at it another way, if you accumulate 10 million BBP and decide to start 5 sanctuaries, and you have 5 mil laying around, this retirement account is a "safe haven" for you to temporarily move the money.  Its sort of like one of those money market funds you sweep extra BBP into.  Thats the idea, to create an environment to see if the value of the retirement account mathematically bears out any resemblance to the theoretical return of its diminishing supply. 

You make a good point.

I agree, its getting to the level where it is almost "redicules" now, so lets all try to think of a stopgap.

Probably the most obvious stopgap is this the short term:

** Anyone who has a pool account that has not written a letter to an orphan yet, please consider clicking on Orphans | Active Sponsored Orphan List, and clicking on one that says "Need Written"=TRUE, and please, write one letter to one of our orphans. **

The intermediate solution:  Rewarding the ones that are good at letter writing.  TBD.  Ideas are welcome.

Letter writing should be awarded instead of penalized. Current way is not good. I am really not good at writing. Just copy and make a few changes does not make sense to me. Also there should be a least a cap like 5%. I do not mind to pay 5% to support charity. But any fee above 5% is kind of ridiculous. Let someone with talent to write the letter and get some rewards.

If the fee keep rising without a cap, I will try to follow the instruction to build a pool. But at the first glance, the instruction is hard to follow.

Thank you for the constructive post.

POOL

I think there are at least one maybe two other people working on setting up other pools,
Rob released the pool source code about 3 days ago: https://github.com/biblepay/BiblePayPool

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LETTER WRITING

I think it took me a few minutes to write a letter, I used the other approved letters as examples, I was in the same boat and had no idea what to say.
Letters also have to be upvoted to be sent, so that should filter out low quality letters.

I agree that letter writing is probably not known about by most pool miners, so there is definitely room to improve on communicating with miners about it,
like the help guide tab mentioned, or even like a link next to the letter writing fee.

I also think the letters table could use some filtering capabilities and maybe by default hide already approved and sent letters.

Overall I don't think its too harsh of a requirement, a few minutes every 2 months to potentially help make a kid feel cared for.
[Keep in mind, some of these kids only have 1 parent or no parents (parent(s) abandoned them or died)]

The Questions to Think About:
Why are we writing letters?
How do we motivate people to write letters? (carrot vs stick)
Why only pool miners penalized for not writing letters? Should solo miners also have to write letters?
How do we better inform/communicate users about letter writing?
How do we motivate people to upvote and downvote letters?

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RETIREMENT COINS (rBBP)

I think the retirement coins ideas is interesting, Im still a bit confused about its utility/purpose (and I think most others will be confused) but I think I just need to re-read and let it stew in my brain some more. A lot of people love NEO and it has something called Gas, Ive never looked into it yet.

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Interesting things I've seen recently for other coins:
- TOR wallet for Vertcoin
- Web Browser mining of Monero

This is just to coax you to write one letter.  If you write a letter it goes to zero.  If the community writes 105 letters, it goes to zero until the 60 day period starts to be exceeded, then it appears again (in order to maintain 105 outbound letters per 60 days).

Regarding other pools, they do not have expenses, fundraisers, orphan lists, outbound letters, inbound letters, or letter fees.
Technically once they crop up, I will either have to lower the fee to keep miners, or just lose miners to other pools.

I want the feature because I know how important it is.  The only other alternative is to allow us to launch proposals to fund letter writing and slowly decommission the feature.

On the increasing letter fee:  There will be zero letter fees on other pools, because there will not be letters.  The other pools offer mining only.

The other pools that pop up dont have the ability to send the letters to compassion through the API.  Only the "biblepay-central" website can do that (that is currently pool.biblepay.org).

I am increasing the fee because we are not receiving one new outbound letter per day to the orphans.

I dont think you understand the feature.  The feature gets shut off once we have more than 105 outbound letters in a 60 day period, then the pool fees return to zero, until orphans need written to again.

I appreciate your concern that a child might want a new pair of shoes, and that is understandable if you dont currently have an account with compassion.  The compassion letters from pastors constantly remind me that I should be writing one letter per month to each child.  That is why the feature is so important. 

Regarding the retirement account feature, that is an add-on feature, and it is designed to enhance biblepay.  It does not change the original vision.  The original vision is going to be extended until I realize we provide real world value to the blockchain.  I would suggest trying to help us add value instead of trying to hamper our growth efforts.

One way you can help, is to realize we are a grass roots organization that needs your help, not your management of others.  For example, it would be helpful if you would create an entire wiki page describing how the pool works and then asking us to add it to the help section of the pool (instead of trying to direct me to add snippets to the pool help section).