Topic: Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People (Read 1154 times)

Oh, You came back.  You continue to deny this thing we call reality.  TV only exists due to electrons and ideas.  Bitcoin= electrons and ideas.   Just stop, you have hit embarrassment territory now.

Zero is word for the concept of non-existence of quantity.  BTC is word for the concept of money. Words exist. Concepts exist. But concepts exist in fantasy, not in reality. Bitcoin is money that exist in fantasy. It is represented with the word that exist in reality.

If I say that you own 10 Ferraris, and I write that statement down on paper, we have words on the medium that represent Ferraris that exist in fantasy. Likewise, if, via his software, Satoshi writes into the blockchain that some miner owns 10 Bitcoins, we have words on the medium that represent bitcoins that exist in Satoshi's fantasy. Things don't come into existence via words. Only if you are God. Satoshi is not God.

I wasn't precise enough. Bitcon exists, but only as the product of Satoshi's imagination and as such it resides only in fantasy. In the blockchain you have representation of that fantasy.

It doesn't exist in reality, it exists in Satoshi's fantasy. And Satoshi uses numbers in the blockchain to represent his fantasy.

I enjoyed reading this and think it is a good and well thought out argument, but nonetheless flawed.  First off image during the first 'pizza' transaction.  I'm sure the guy making the pizza was thinking why am I selling this pizza for something that doesn't even really exist?  Oh, well, just a pizza.  Now a decade + later none of us are really thinking the same way.  Back in the silk road days I was like, yeah, it doesn't really exist but I need to buy some stuff so how can I do it and then not be left holding any of the residual BTC.  Then in the FOMO era I became a believer and HODLer.  I just think it is hard now to argue that it doesn't exist.  My basic assumption is that it may not be worth what the market is saying, but yes it does exist.  Proof:  you can sell it on ward.  Some other tokens that are basically bogus company produced ponzi type pump and dump, in my mind I put them in a different category as not being real, even though you can sell them onward.  With BTC it seems like it is real and exists, and I don't buy the argument about fiat currency USD being more real.  It is just created on a computer terminal somewhere.  It used to be that governments were more concerned about the backing of currency with something real (eg. silver certificates), but that is a thing of the past.  . 

Really great topic and it matches my thoughts at some point.

We all really live in an illusory truth effect. What is money? Why does paper with $ symbols have value? Why do we exchange valuable things for some $$? When you check your bank's account online, you just see the numbers. When you pay, you give away nothing but the numbers. <-- From one point it looks like that but there is whole magic behind the scene. I suggest OP and anyone to check investopedia.com <-- A lot of interesting articles.

Btw, we were told that money can buy things. A lot of people don't know economics, finances, etc, that's where we get the illusory truth effect and just know that money can buy things What if your world is just a manipulation? What if we are a part of computer software? Someone created a new world with characters and put an algorithm in it to make it capable of thinking itself like AI, to create its own world in a dream. What if according to algorithm, dopamine is the key of motivation and each character has different levels of dopamine and is capable of manually boosting/decreasing this? There are a lot of "What if"...

My statement was specific to sellers who engage in intraday trading and sell a stock that they don't even possess. Even if the company exists and the stock exists, the seller would not have the stock at the moment of selling the stock. But still it is considered as valid? Why? Because it is an acceptable practice.

Similarly, Bitcoin is creating a new practice that tends to give value to "credits for verifying transactions".

My point is that you're missing out the fact that a person has to mine to earn a Bitcoin - a number that signifies the efforts that are put in by the miner to mine the cryptocurrency. The more the one mines bitcoin, the more the one is bound to receive Bitcoin - which acts as a Proof of work. You could consider a Bitcoin as credit to a person for certifying a set of transactions within the blockchain. Once the person earns that credit, the person can then transfer such credit to any other person for a monetary value. So Bitcoin becomes a transferrable credit for having worked on the blockchain.

Just like the "services" of an entertainer are intangible, this "credit for working" is also intangible. Just because something is intangible and you do not perceive value, does not actually make it non-existent and worthless. There are others who will pay for "credit for working".

Further, given that Bitcoin facilitates P2P transfers, it is considered as a currency of the future. Should everyone accept it, your argument of it is just a number wont hold good. Also, you need to consider that Bitcoin is not a fiat, it has value only because of people accepting it because of its features such as immutability. Just because you find Bitcoins to be non-existent, you wont be able to delete someone's bitcoins.

This post does not exist, on a website that isn't here, across hardline networks transmitting into thin air.

By your argument all the transistors in any microchip turning on and off to produce computer logic also doesn't 'produce' anything and only consumes electricity... does this make all the software in the world, including Facebook, Google, etc. non existent?

Furthermore, Bitcoin doesn't need to produce anything in order to be valuable... it just needs to represent value, and the agreement on how valuable that representation is has grown exponentially since its inception.

You claim BTC does not exist.   But you also acknowledge that Zero Doesn't exist. 

Since Zero and BTC are Both non existent how can we even think about such things if they do not exist?  You/We clearly do think that Zero not only exists but has great value.  You can apply the exact same logic to BTC.  You cannot get around this argument since you have already said zero doesn't exist either.

These statement have equal value.  since neither exists. 

Are we having fun yet?

you say bitcoin doesn't exist, bitcoin is just a theory and satoshi tricked us with his theory, if you say so, i think you are the same as elon musk, maybe you are a crypto whale, who wants to scare weak hands, so you can take a lot of profit and can buy a lot of bitcoins. Enough is enough, don't post negative things about bitcoin anymore..

How it becomes intelligent? I've read the context of this post and I found it not interesting anymore and just like what others say, this thread is quite too long to read especially for that person who is too lazy to read that kind of long explanation. Just get it to the point on what you are pointing about and make it more clear next time. Bitcoin is not created just for nothing, Satoshi Nakamoto is a great person and a smart person because just imagine that he creates bitcoin and look what is the value of bitcoin today, he is clearly making a successful outcome out of it.

It is actually impressive that the OP gave an intelligent discussion about Bitcoin but also against Bitcoin. At least he is not others who just throw shit at something and worse, make unintelligible statements about cryptocurrency in general, not just Bitcoin. Not well researched or read also does not give time to read the arguments of others and just simply talk shit about it. He made some points and that is good. If that is his belief then let him be, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

I still don't see a transaction id or hash. So, yes, no "symbols" have been sent. I know I should stop feeding the troll, but ... oh well.



Make up your mind. It does not exist. Now it exists.

What you don't want to understand is that debt can be represented to anything people agree upon and not just to what the government forces them to.

Nobody is able to send you BTC. Only symbols for it. BTC exists only in imagination, only in the human mind. Everything else traded in the market exists outside of the human mind (equity, debt, labor, services, cars, buildings, land, etc.). Given that Bitcoin exists only in imagination everyone defines it differently. Some even view it as a shiny coin which is why they create pictures of it.

No, they are both concepts. They don't actually exist in reality outside of the human mind. And both concepts can be represented with symbols: "zero", "0", "bitcoin",  "btc".

Debt also can't be physically held. But it exists outside of human mind. US dollar is debt. This debt is represented with symbols "USD", and numbers. Debt is real. It is explained in the OP how it is created and how it is paid.

I can't believe people actually think about bitcoin like this  as if they are so smart that they realize that a bitcoin can't be physically held. I don't think this person would think this way about gravity or physics or love or brand value or other "intangible" things. Whether something is "real" or not is just all perspective. By this logic the US dollar is certainly not real either. Probably even less real than bitcoin.

But you won't risk somebody buying you coffee with it?  And by the way admitting that zero is a human concept you have to admit that Bitcoin is a human concept.  And we find zero quite useful don't we? Pretty good for something that's a representative of nothing!

We can make 0 and Bitcoin equals.  Since they are both representations of nothing.  According to you.

Ok. I'll accept the fact you can't send me BTC. It does not exist for you. That's fine with me. Have a nice day.