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Topic: Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People - page 6. (Read 1154 times)

jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
Granted loans are being distributed as debt and the amount of that debt is expressed with the quantity on paper bills or banking accounts.
So, why not expressing the quantity of the granted loans to some block chain units?

Regarding your example. A 3D printer printing tangible items called “bitcoins” every 10 minutes means that the items exist and thus, we can use quantity on some medium to express their amount. But in the current bitcoin scheme you only have quantity on the digital medium but not the items themselves. Neither tangible nor intangible. The items are fictional and as such they are called "bitcoins".
I think you're making it more complicated than it should. In the above part of your reply, you're trying to convince me that an asset has to exist and be tangible, but who told you that Bitcoin is an asset? It's a protocol, a set of rules in which computers follow to achieve this censorship resistant and double-spending deterrent electronic payment system.

In a payment system, units are required. Satoshi chose to call them bitcoins. (S)He didn't create value out of thin air. Whoever wanted a payment system that followed this consensus scheme could join and be part of its distributed ledger.

It's nothing, but a ledger of debts.
Everything you said is true. But bitcoin still doesn't exist. Because you can pretend it exists, you can imagine there is something behind the quantity and the name. For example. I can sell you a car which evaporated in an explosion and doesn't exist anymore. Because everything is done via paperwork. We simply imagine the car still exist and make the transfer. That car would still have quantity. It would still have properties in our heads, but not in the real world. The same is true with bitcoin. It has quantities and imagined properties but it doesn't exist in the real world.

Or let me explain it another way.

Imagine a friend saying to you: "You own 10 Ferraris and 50 luxury apartments in Hawaii." Of course, you don't own them, so you would probably laugh at such a statement. Now imagine an anonymous guy, let's call him Satoshi Nakamoto, saying to you: "you own a revolutionary digital asset, digital gold, money of the future." You would also probably laugh at such a statement because you know that you own nothing of a such. But, you see, millions and millions of people around the world believe Satoshi. They believe to own some revolutionary digital asset. And the only reason they believe it is because Satoshi told them so. They even spend enormous amounts of electricity to keep Satoshi's statements stored in database. And they even pay an enormous amount of money to transfer these statements from one name to another. Currently, we live in a time of a collective madness. Madness, in which an anonymous author wrote a computer program through which he is saying something to people. And people blindly believe him.

To better understand what's going on, let's go back to your friend. Imagine that your friend formally writes his statement into a database as data. First column in this database would contain owner's name, the second quantity of asset, and the third name of asset. So we would have something like this: "John Smith", "10", Ferrari. The second row in the database would be this: "John Smith", "50", Luxury apartment. So this is your friend's statement stored as data in a database. Now, would such transformation of verbal statement into data mean that you became the owner of Ferraris and apartments? That you magically became rich? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. Just because your friend stored his statement into a database as data, that doesn't make the statement true. It is still false. It still contains fake quantity data on the said assets. But in the current bitcoin madness, Satoshi's statements in the form of data, are considered true. And they are believed blindly. Namely, this anonymous guy, Satoshi Nakamoto, wrote a computer program through which he is saying to people, who performed a certain job, that they own a specific quantity of a revolutionary digital asset called Bitcoin. The job performed is the maintenance of a database that contains quantities of Bitcoin and virtual addresses of people who "own" Bitcoin. The database is called blockchain, while the maintainers are called miners. But now comes the fun fact: Bitcoin doesn't exist. The "revolutionary digital asset" is fictional. It is as fictional as the Ferraris and luxury apartments in the statement of your friend. And although we at least know what Ferraris or luxury apartments are, here we have some "revolutionary digital asset" but nobody even knows what this asset is. Nobody knows to what thing in the real world blockchain quantity data belongs. Only name was given to it: "Bitcoin". Generally speaking, quantity is defined as the amount of something, so here, "something" is Bitcoin. But besides the amount and address in the blockchain no asset exists anywhere that is in the ownership of address holders. And if one were to ask them where is the revolutionary digital asset, where is the thing that has quantity written next to their addresses, they wouldn’t be able to show it. That is because Bitcoin is fictional. It doesn’t exist. Their ownership of Bitcoin is imaginary the same as your ownership of Ferraris and apartments.

All that people are doing in the Satoshi's scheme, is sending and receiving quantities of fictional Bitcoins. And every such transfer is recorded in the blockchain. So the whole scheme, is as nonsensical as believing that just because your friend stored his statement into a database as data, that you now own Ferraris and apartments. And because you "own" them, you believe you are rich. How rich? Well if you scam a guy to whose name in a database you would transfer quantity data on two nonexistent luxury apartments, and he would pay you $1,000,000 for the transfer, then you would have (50-2)*$500.000 or 24 million dollars worth of "assets". This is how "rich" you would be. You would be "rich" because your friend made a fantasy statement and stored it into a database. This the essence behind Satoshi's scheme. People believe that they are rich, that they own some revolutionary digital asset, just because Satoshi’s computer program makes fantasy statements in the form of quantity data. That's the collective madness we currently live in. And because people have fall for this madness there is now the explosion of authors who create computer programs through which they make such fantasy statements. Only names given to nonexistent assets are different.
sr. member
Activity: 826
Merit: 263
Bitcoin is created digitally and not for any physical form of Bitcoin itself. That is why it is like BTC doesn't exist. But in fact, there is Bitcoin.
For people who really care about BTC, this coin is likely volatile with the data and digitalization in the market. During this digital era, all cryptocurrencies are created and really can follow the development of technology. So far, I don't really mind about the only data and not for the physical
sr. member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 286
The existence of bitcoin is still a mystery, everyone still wants to know who is satoshi and what does he look like. Over the years, bitcoin was able to reach lots of achievements that doesn't seem possible for a simple digital currency to make. We should be proud of it and feel privileged considering that not everyone was given the chance to learn about it in their lifetime. All of these might be a lie, it is too good to be true but still bitcoin is one of the best thing that has ever happened in our lives and I will always be thankful for it.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Granted loans are being distributed as debt and the amount of that debt is expressed with the quantity on paper bills or banking accounts.
So, why not expressing the quantity of the granted loans to some block chain units?

Regarding your example. A 3D printer printing tangible items called “bitcoins” every 10 minutes means that the items exist and thus, we can use quantity on some medium to express their amount. But in the current bitcoin scheme you only have quantity on the digital medium but not the items themselves. Neither tangible nor intangible. The items are fictional and as such they are called "bitcoins".
I think you're making it more complicated than it should. In the above part of your reply, you're trying to convince me that an asset has to exist and be tangible, but who told you that Bitcoin is an asset? It's a protocol, a set of rules in which computers follow to achieve this censorship resistant and double-spending deterrent electronic payment system.

In a payment system, units are required. Satoshi chose to call them bitcoins. (S)He didn't create value out of thin air. Whoever wanted a payment system that followed this consensus scheme could join and be part of its distributed ledger.

It's nothing, but a ledger of debts.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
Simply, what you have in your wallet is quantity of a fictional or nonexistent thing.
It does exist, it's just intangible. There's a huge difference, if we replace your word with mine. Bitcoin is a digitally represented asset and it's being distributed as a “debt” to everyone using it. If someone gave me a digital signature saying that these units are now owned by BlackHatCoiner, it means that he just created a debt to me and it can be seen from what we call “block chain”, which is also a digital and hence, intangible chain.

Stating that Bitcoin doesn't exist should mean that Internet doesn't as well. But, being able to read this message thousands miles away is a clear proof that internet does exist. It's just intangible.

You should picture it in another way. Imagine a 3D printer printing tangible items called “bitcoins” every 10 minutes and whoever was near the machine could earn them. If some people (bitcoins' owners) started using these coins as a medium of exchange, you'd say that they do exist. What exactly would it change if instead of tangible items, we had a public ledger showing who owns what and that we knew that this ledger can't be censored or erased by anyone's will. It'd not make bitcoins non-existing, but rather intangible. And that's because that ledger wouldn't show an IOU, but a strong proof that you don't owe me anything. You paid me.

Then, you convince people of your creation being digital, because nowadays, calling something “digital” implies that it is new, innovative and revolutionary.
If anyone is convinced that Bitcoin can be used as a medium of exchange through the internet, then why not using it? No one forced you to believe that being a debtor in this system will be beneficial to you. The whole system relies on the belief that people will use that censorship-resistant ledger as a way to transact their value.

And due to the above, I answer to that too:
With all that said, it is obvious why the whole Bitcoin scheme is a ticking bomb that can go off at any time.
Sure, it may still be an experiment, who knows what's waiting for us in the next decades. I personally doubt if it's a ticking bomb.




Anyway, nice post, even if I disagree to lots of your arguments. It's nice to see people expressing their opinions upon this digital era.
Quantity written on the medium is always intangible. You cannot for example touch quantity on paper bills or on deposit account. But quantity is not an asset. Quantity is just a number that expresses the amount of an asset. In blockchain you have the amount, but the asset that this amount is supposed to express is nonexistent. So, Bitcoin is NOT a digitally represented asset. Bitcoin is nonexistent asset. And therefore it cannot be distributed as a “debt”. Granted loans are being distributed as debt and the amount of that debt is expressed with the quantity on paper bills or banking accounts.

Regarding your example. A 3D printer printing tangible items called “bitcoins” every 10 minutes means that the items exist and thus, we can use quantity on some medium to express their amount. But in the current bitcoin scheme you only have quantity on the digital medium but not the items themselves. Neither tangible nor intangible. The items are fictional and as such they are called "bitcoins".

So, if instead of tangible items, we had a public ledger showing what address has what quantity, that means that there's nothing in the real world that has quantity expressed in the ledger. Wich makes the whole ledger just a giant storage of fake data.
hero member
Activity: 2478
Merit: 695
SecureShift.io | Crypto-Exchange
Well thanks for the heads up, some of us will remember to keep that in mind while continue with our btc investment  Wink
lol, i don't know why some people just chose to continuously waste their time on something they have no control of, if you think btc is just a big lie then do yourself a favor and don't invest, no need to write such a long and boring story. it is really pretty simple.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
As mentioned above by my fellow forum member, Bitcoin has a production cost. We can't simply add random numbers to our wallets. So how come it is created out of thin air. If it is created out of thin air, shouldn't we all become a billionaire by now?

Bitcoin's production cost is pretty significant and an average Joe can't mine bitcoin just with one laptop. It requires ASICs and electricity. Moreover it has a fixed supply unlike fiat. Fiats can be printed if a government wishes to print. Check facts before bashing bitcoin.
What has costs is not the production of Bitcoin, but storing and maintaining fake quantity data in the blockchain. Those processes don't produce something. They only spend that what is already produced, which is electricity. Adding numbers to blockchain is just adding statements about quantity of fictional Bitcoins - which is a trivial, algorithmically predetermined task.
hero member
Activity: 3178
Merit: 977
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
Firstly, I didn't read the entire wall of text and understood what you were trying to convey through some of the posters above. Secondly, if you don't believe that BTC exists, why on earth are you posting about it in this forum?

Feels like you hate BTC for some reason and you basically wrote this wall of crap to try and make yourself feel better. Also, you successfully attracted a ton of hate.
jr. member
Activity: 98
Merit: 1
You make it sound like we're all nuts and anything related to Bitcoin is just a theory and an imagination. It's not. Actually, the license argument can easily be used as a counter-argument against your main point. If licenses can be sold online and delivered as a text code, then Bitcoin is no different. You can sell it on the internet and it can be delivered in either private keys or the coins can be placed into public addresses. Moreover, you can check the validiity of the license code with Microsoft's database the same way you can check either whether a private key is correct or if a said balance is currently truly sitting on an address.

Bitcoin exists. There's no way one can tell me it doesn't. The fact that it's not physically real but digitally instead is a completely different thing.
The quantity of licences (number) and the licenses themselves (asset) are two different things. The first only measures the second. In blockchain, you have quantity of Bitcoins (number), but not Bitcoin (asset) itself. Private keys have access to quantity not to Bitcoins. Bitcoins don't exist. They are fictional. It is explained in details why.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
just because you don't understand something that doesn't mean that thing is incorrect. you may want to refuse to accept that the earth is round but that doesn't make it flat.
member
Activity: 289
Merit: 40
This isn't a university where most people are impressed with lots of words strung together. 

The fact remains you are a troll or an idiot. 

Your content is easy to disprove in seconds.  We have already do so in your last made for children at the age of 10 thread, or university students.  => 

Reiteration of idiocy with more words doesn't help your case. If anything it makes you look even more stupid.  Why you might ask?  when someone has been proven wrong the smart ones go back and figure out what they did wrong.   You haven't, therefore stupid/ideologue.   bu bye now o/

and yes that was a troll to the troll
jr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 5

So, it means you don't believe in bitcoin but why you're here in bitcoin forum and crypto space? I guess, you’re also a bitcoin investor and one of those crypto whales acting like anti bitcoin. You just want people with weak hands to dump their bitcoins and you will buy it  Grin

If you said that bitcoin is just a number, what about fiat money? It is also about number, right? Both fiat and money was created base on quantities and the difference is that, bitcoin is intangible while fiat is tangible. We are in a new generation which almost everything is computer generated and that's how bitcoin was created, because of technology.

Fiat is not tangible. It is a federal reserve "note". not tangible in the slightest. You can print out a private key on paper too and keep it in your wallent in denominations. hand it to people that accept bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 1192
To conclude, the illusory truth effect, together with the tricks of fancy name and fake quantity data, created the illusion of the existence of a thing called Bitcoin. For that reason, people thought that the whole thing differs from classical Ponzi or pyramid schemes, where nothing exists to pay off the existing members, and thus, a constant influx of new members is required. But, as it turns out, exactly this is the case with Bitcoin scheme. Nobody can be paid off from blockchain membership because nothing exists behind the fancy name and quantity data. That is why a constant influx of new members is required to pay the existing ones off. All schemes where the existing members can be paid off only from the inputs of new members, eventually come to a turning point after which they collapse. Bitcoin scheme, and all crypto schemes for that matter, will come to this point as well. It is just a matter of time.

For someone who likes to write a lot it is amazing how you come to such a bizarre, illogical and detached conclusion. You seem to have conflated the price that people have associated with the item and your clear inability to see how the blockchain fundamentally operates. While the price of Bitcoin/cryptocurrency might be highly overvalued, that in itself does not make the mechanism "illusory" as you suggest. Money is nothing except an agreed form of value exchange and Bitcoin solves exactly the same problem. All the things that you have described can be applied to any fiat currency (since it was detached from the gold standard) yet people use it every day for the purpose intended.
member
Activity: 909
Merit: 17
www.cd3d.app

BTC is not created out of thin air. There is no one out there who will just pop out and print BTC to paste it into the blockchain. BTC is being mined using the devices solving hashes crunching numbers and consuming energy. How is that a lie when banks are already adopting it?

Well, you still could say it's a Ponzi but there is no one here that will ever think Satoshi can print more BTC just as the FED are doing which is a bigger Ponzi. It will always be 21M BTC ever.



Of course BTC is not created out of thin air given it's nonexistent. But quantity data on nonexistent BTC is created out of thin air. The fact the creating is done after POW is like writing letter on a piece of paper after one does hundred push-up, and then claim that the letter is not created out of thin air. It is. Letters and numbers are always created out of thin air. Regarding scarcity. Only existent things can be scarce. If you put a limit in an algorithm to 21 million this is just an arbitrary decision. You could have put it to 21 trillion. It doesn't matter. It's just numbers. And numbers can go to infinity. Numbers, that is, quantities have nothing to do with scarcity. And all you have in blockchain is quantities.

So, it means you don't believe in bitcoin but why you're here in bitcoin forum and crypto space? I guess, you’re also a bitcoin investor and one of those crypto whales acting like anti bitcoin. You just want people with weak hands to dump their bitcoins and you will buy it  Grin

If you said that bitcoin is just a number, what about fiat money? It is also about number, right? Both fiat and money was created base on quantities and the difference is that, bitcoin is intangible while fiat is tangible. We are in a new generation which almost everything is computer generated and that's how bitcoin was created, because of technology.
sr. member
Activity: 2380
Merit: 366
Your post is too long it makes people not interested what you're saying in it. And because it is also something against Bitcoin and its revered inventor, the more reason people won't bother going through all those long lines.

But to respond to your title, your point is subjective. It does not exist as in you cannot touch it, but it does exist in my wallet because I can see the numbers there. And I own it. It is there. I could convert them to fiat anytime and buy something tangible out of it or I could just use it to directly buy stuff.
jr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 5
The illusory truth effect, refers to a phenomenon in which people, when hear the same false information repeated again and again, often come to believe it is true. Also, repetition of a such information increases its likelihood of being judged true. Even the most educated individuals are still prone to this effect. They may be skeptical of a....

Dude instead of this nonsense realize Melania Trump and Gal Gadot are secret trannies.

Melania Trump - https://www.bitchute.com/video/zjTVb9puK87q/

Gal Gadot - https://www.bitchute.com/video/MaU52o38ph9Q/

Bitcoin has a very real measurable financial reality as well as an industrial reality. That is like thinking gold isn't real. Bitcoin exists based on physics and PROOF of work.

Shitcoins are NOT real though. Wink

Did I just blow your mind?
full member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 109
1xBit.. recovered their reputation
Oh look who is back in forum again with his new account... always Anti and against things he don't understand, I guess you love working for government.

Fiat money doesn’t exist, or how Government tells lies to people, and Bitcoin is Antithesis to Fiat monetary system.
op really looks like a clown elon Cheesy
if op wants to spend a little time reading the bitcoin whitepaper maybe he/she will realize his/her mistake

the war with Bitcoin has been echoed by the bankers
they say Bitcoin is a reincarnation of tulipmania, here I see clearly their stupidity comparing Bitcoin which using the best technology with tulip flower
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
Oh look who is back in forum again with his new account... always Anti and against things he don't understand, I guess you love working for government.

Fiat money doesn’t exist, or how Government tells lies to people, and Bitcoin is Antithesis to Fiat monetary system.
hero member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 504

BTC is not created out of thin air. There is no one out there who will just pop out and print BTC to paste it into the blockchain. BTC is being mined using the devices solving hashes crunching numbers and consuming energy. How is that a lie when banks are already adopting it?

Well, you still could say it's a Ponzi but there is no one here that will ever think Satoshi can print more BTC just as the FED are doing which is a bigger Ponzi. It will always be 21M BTC ever.






Exactly, there is no codebase restricting the FED from printing more money. There is no algorithm they need to have their actions validated. Bitcoin is maths translated into a hard set of rules that can only be changed with the vast majority of the network's stakeholders voting for those changes. Bitcoin has an incentive structure that, if you give it some time and think about it, is damn sophisticated. Far superior to what we find in political bodies like the FED.
full member
Activity: 700
Merit: 182
First of all 99.99999% people aren't interested to read huge article like you shared. People are here just for discussion in short way. Now comes to your point the first thing what do you think bitcoin is created in air? Are you out of your mind brother? You have to research first before blaming anything. First of all bitcoin creator is still anonymous but his name is satoshi nakamoto it is confirmed. If we research that the first person who creat this forum and share about bitcoin is the person user name is satoshi nakamoto. So now i don't think soo we need clarification about satoshi nakamoto is the bitcoin creator. In my opinion your post is just click bet purpose.
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