Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People - page 4.

Antithesis

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Quote from: KryptoKings on June 08, 2021, 04:32:45 AM

Okay so Bitcoin is a data and nothing else according to op. So what? We are holding that data because it is valuable.
What is fiat? Just a piece of paper with some promisory note written on it?

Sure, true data has value. Fake data is worthless. Data in the blockchain is fake because it quantities nonexistent Bitcoins.

Quote from: Aliceooo78 on June 08, 2021, 04:56:48 AM

If you go and ask an economist about the definition of currency, He will most likely tell you that the stuff issued by the "National Credit" endorsement is currency.
But that is the national legal tender, and history shows that currency appeared before the concept of "country".
So, what exactly is currency?
It's actually two words: consensus.
It is you, me and him, our common recognition and common understanding.
Bitcoin has global consensus.

What exactly is a currency? A thing that exists in the real world independent of the concepts of the human mind. Bitcoin exists only as a concept in the human mind. So it cannot be a currency.

Aliceooo78

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If you go and ask an economist about the definition of currency, He will most likely tell you that the stuff issued by the "National Credit" endorsement is currency.
But that is the national legal tender, and history shows that currency appeared before the concept of "country".
So, what exactly is currency?
It's actually two words: consensus.
It is you, me and him, our common recognition and common understanding.
Bitcoin has global consensus.

KryptoKings

hero member

Activity: 854

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Okay so Bitcoin is a data and nothing else according to op. So what? We are holding that data because it is valuable.
What is fiat? Just a piece of paper with some promisory note written on it?

Antithesis

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Activity: 98

Merit: 1

Quote from: Kakmakr on June 08, 2021, 02:25:08 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 01:07:24 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on June 08, 2021, 12:49:39 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange them for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Your argument is so funny ...

So it is more valid if a government prints a number on a piece of paper and tells you what the value of that piece of paper is, because they determine that by printing more or less of that toilet paper money?

What happens if a software developer creates a software program or a application for your mobile phone? (Example : Apple Pay / debit/credit cards / Internet Banking / NFC payments / IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, IMPS) .....all of these use digital "numbers" reflected of a centralized database to transfer value.)

You are such a Fiat sheep.... Grin

....The world of payment systems and currencies are changing and people like you are clinging to the past. Grin

You are holding onto a "Titanic" that are sinking... and you are still singing and dancing and ignoring the tragedy that are happening with government controlled currencies. Grin

The government prints numbers on a peace of paper to measure debt. So I am not exchanging things for numbers but for debt ownership. I explained in the OP how this debt gets paid by the borrowers. In the past there was ownership of gold measured with numbers. Today it is the ownership of debt. Gold and debt exist. Debt is protected via collateral. That's why you need to whole banking system - the middleman, who will ensure the debt that you own gets paid. Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing. That's why you don't need a middleman. You just transfer numbers and pretend they quantify imaginary thing that you call "bitcoin".

So your idea for a "perfect" currency is a currency that are based on debt? ===> https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

The imaginary "debt" that are being controlled or rather uncontrolled by corrupt governments around the world? You might be one of the lucky people who live in a first world country where the demise of fiat currencies are slowed down and manipulated by a very clever government... but for many people living in third world countries... that reality is already showing it's ugly face. (Hyperinflation -- Venezuela, Hungary, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia)

Satoshi Nakamoto created this technology to eliminate the corrupted "middleman" (Governments & Banks) and to stop the manipulation of the currency by replacing that with real "Supply and demand".

Why should people only have one currency? Why should the use of that currency be enforced with guns and violence? Why should a few elites determine the value of that currency? ====> Bitcoin was created to give people an alternative option and a choice if they wanted to use the Fiat currency or if they wanted to take the control of their own wealth and to use it as an alternative. Wink

I have no ideas. I am just stating the fact that quantity on paper bills or banking accounts quantifies debt ownership. Debt is not imaginary. It is created with every granted loan, paid with every loan repayment, and protected with collateral. And yes, in some countries the debt is bad, but that has nothing to do with non-existence of Bitcoin.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

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Farewell, Leo

I don't tend to just quote other people's messages as replies, but:

Quote from: satoshi

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

Antithesis

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 08, 2021, 01:17:58 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 11:10:42 PM

It exists only in human mind, not in reality. In my mind I am the richest person in the world just like you are the owner of Bitcoins. In fantasy, everything is possible.

In my mind I have around 1500 BTC, but in reality I won't be accepted by the network if I told them so. So is it really in fantasy? Undecided

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity.

Money is anything that is accepted by a community of people as a medium of exchange. Whether if it's physically (banknotes, coins) or digitally represented, in this case an immutable ledger, if some of us agree that it's useful, its units will start having value.

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not.

It depends on that number. If the number

Cannot be erased no matter the excuse.
Can only be transacted by the owner.
Can be accessed by anyone in the world 24/7/365.

Then, I don't find any reasons why it shouldn't be valuated.

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 01:07:24 AM

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing.

Just because it isn't used for expressing the ownership of governments' debts, doesn't mean that it can't.

Bravo! Money is anything. Any THING. And thing is something that exists in the real world independent of concepts created in the human mind. Numbers are concepts and they exist only in human mind. That's why they are not money. When I count existent things in my room, the concept that my mind creates from the process of counting is number. It's not money, but number. And as such it can be put on paper or digital medium. That what was put is not a thing with value but just an auxiliary means to express the quantity of things in my room. Without the things, this number is referred to nothing. That's exactly the quantity in the blockchain next to your address - number referred to nothing. And nothing cannot be money.

Kakmakr

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 01:07:24 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on June 08, 2021, 12:49:39 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange them for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Your argument is so funny ...

So it is more valid if a government prints a number on a piece of paper and tells you what the value of that piece of paper is, because they determine that by printing more or less of that toilet paper money?

What happens if a software developer creates a software program or a application for your mobile phone? (Example : Apple Pay / debit/credit cards / Internet Banking / NFC payments / IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, IMPS) .....all of these use digital "numbers" reflected of a centralized database to transfer value.)

You are such a Fiat sheep.... Grin

....The world of payment systems and currencies are changing and people like you are clinging to the past. Grin

You are holding onto a "Titanic" that are sinking... and you are still singing and dancing and ignoring the tragedy that are happening with government controlled currencies. Grin

The government prints numbers on a peace of paper to measure debt. So I am not exchanging things for numbers but for debt ownership. I explained in the OP how this debt gets paid by the borrowers. In the past there was ownership of gold measured with numbers. Today it is the ownership of debt. Gold and debt exist. Debt is protected via collateral. That's why you need to whole banking system - the middleman, who will ensure the debt that you own gets paid. Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing. That's why you don't need a middleman. You just transfer numbers and pretend they quantify imaginary thing that you call "bitcoin".

So your idea for a "perfect" currency is a currency that are based on debt? ===> https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

The imaginary "debt" that are being controlled or rather uncontrolled by corrupt governments around the world? You might be one of the lucky people who live in a first world country where the demise of fiat currencies are slowed down and manipulated by a very clever government... but for many people living in third world countries... that reality is already showing it's ugly face. (Hyperinflation -- Venezuela, Hungary, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia)

Satoshi Nakamoto created this technology to eliminate the corrupted "middleman" (Governments & Banks) and to stop the manipulation of the currency by replacing that with real "Supply and demand".

Why should people only have one currency? Why should the use of that currency be enforced with guns and violence? Why should a few elites determine the value of that currency? ====> Bitcoin was created to give people an alternative option and a choice if they wanted to use the Fiat currency or if they wanted to take the control of their own wealth and to use it as an alternative. Wink

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 11:10:42 PM

It exists only in human mind, not in reality. In my mind I am the richest person in the world just like you are the owner of Bitcoins. In fantasy, everything is possible.

In my mind I have around 1500 BTC, but in reality I won't be accepted by the network if I told them so. So is it really in fantasy? Undecided

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity.

Money is anything that is accepted by a community of people as a medium of exchange. Whether if it's physically (banknotes, coins) or digitally represented, in this case an immutable ledger, if some of us agree that it's useful, its units will start having value.

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not.

It depends on that number. If the number

Cannot be erased no matter the excuse.
Can only be transacted by the owner.
Can be accessed by anyone in the world 24/7/365.

Then, I don't find any reasons why it shouldn't be valuated.

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 01:07:24 AM

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing.

Just because it isn't used for expressing the ownership of governments' debts, doesn't mean that it can't.

Antithesis

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Activity: 98

Merit: 1

Quote from: Kakmakr on June 08, 2021, 12:49:39 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange them for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Your argument is so funny ...

So it is more valid if a government prints a number on a piece of paper and tells you what the value of that piece of paper is, because they determine that by printing more or less of that toilet paper money?

What happens if a software developer creates a software program or a application for your mobile phone? (Example : Apple Pay / debit/credit cards / Internet Banking / NFC payments / IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, IMPS) .....all of these use digital "numbers" reflected of a centralized database to transfer value.)

You are such a Fiat sheep.... Grin

....The world of payment systems and currencies are changing and people like you are clinging to the past. Grin

You are holding onto a "Titanic" that are sinking... and you are still singing and dancing and ignoring the tragedy that are happening with government controlled currencies. Grin

The government prints numbers on a peace of paper to measure debt. So I am not exchanging things for numbers but for debt ownership. I explained in the OP how this debt gets paid by the borrowers. In the past there was ownership of gold measured with numbers. Today it is the ownership of debt. Gold and debt exist. Debt is protected via collateral. That's why you need to whole banking system - the middleman, who will ensure the debt that you own gets paid. Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing. That's why you don't need a middleman. You just transfer numbers and pretend they quantify imaginary thing that you call "bitcoin".

Kakmakr

legendary

Activity: 3542

Merit: 1965

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Antithesis on June 08, 2021, 12:06:20 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange them for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Your argument is so funny ...

So it is more valid if a government prints a number on a piece of paper and tells you what the value of that piece of paper is, because they determine that by printing more or less of that toilet paper money? (People like you still believe fiat currencies are linked to Gold)

What happens if a software developer creates a software program or a application for your mobile phone? (Example : Apple Pay / debit/credit cards / Internet Banking / NFC payments / IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, IMPS) .....all of these use digital "numbers" reflected of a centralized database to transfer value.)

You are such a Fiat sheep.... Grin

....The world of payment systems and currencies are changing and people like you are clinging to the past. Grin

You are holding onto a "Titanic" that are sinking... and you are still singing and dancing and ignoring the tragedy that are happening with government controlled currencies. Grin

fenican

hero member

Activity: 1395

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It's hilarious that the long rant uses a digital asset, a software license, to claim that Bitcoin doesn't exist.

I can understand that argument being used for physical gold or silver, but a software license? Those operate more or less the same as Bitcoin minus the public blockchain part.

Rather amazing someone had the energy to type all of that up and doesn't even realize how your Bitcoins are secured, and why they can't be spent by anybody else. It's particularly funny given that Bitcoin uses a UTXO model where you really do own your coins, v/ the Account model used by Ethereum which is more like the "number in a ledger" example she cites. Both, though, are valid so long as the coins can only be spent, or an account debited, by the owner.

Antithesis

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Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:13:21 PM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee shop owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange coffee for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Nhazwrath

member

Activity: 289

Merit: 40

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Antithesis

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Activity: 98

Merit: 1

Quote from: yhiaali3 on June 07, 2021, 01:42:09 PM

This is actually Bitcoin. It is immaterial and intangible, but it does exist, and this is what Satoshi said and he did not lie to anyone. You deny the existence of Bitcoin because you cannot see it or touch it, but you believe in the existence of electricity even though you do not see it or touch it either??!!!
The era of money that can be touched by hand and carried from one place to another is over, when you own bitcoin you really don't own a tangible physical thing but only exists as data on the block chain and that's enough for everyone. As long as everyone recognizes it and accepts it as a means of payment, where is the problem then??

Yes, Bitcoin is immaterial and intangible just like any thought. It exists only in human mind, not in reality. In my mind I am the richest person in the world just like you are the owner of Bitcoins. In fantasy, everything is possible.

Antithesis

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Merit: 1

Quote from: zbig001 on June 07, 2021, 03:05:25 PM

It's a matter of social agreement what do we use numbers for.

But let's do not confuse machines and software that operate on numbers (computers, applications) with numbers themselves.
Bitcoin as software (an application capable of creating a monetary network, a network protocol) is a tremendous achievement, perhaps the greatest in the history of mankind.

Satoshi invented money harder even than gold (no one can modify the BTC supply cap, even social agreement might not be enough anymore), and infinitely more useful than gold.

Satoshi invented no money. He invented how to store lies into a database and make others to believe that these lies are true. And make them even to pay for transferring these lies from one person to another. And this is indeed a tremendous achievement.

Antithesis

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Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 07:15:02 PM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 12:45:11 PM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:52:52 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 09:36:23 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 08:49:27 AM

Quote from: davis196 on June 06, 2021, 10:37:42 PM

Do you need to write such a big wall of text in order to explain something that simple?
Sometimes I wonder if all those FUD accounts on the forum are just alt accounts to one person.
Why do you even care?If you are thinking that Bitcoin doesn't exist,then OK,just deal with it and move on with your life.This topic has been explained before.There's no reason for us to explain it again.
If you were scammed and you've lost your Bitcoins,just move on.I believe that most of the FUDsters in the BTC community are people,who lost money.That's why they are bitter about Bitcoin.

I don't "think", but I know Bitcoin doesn't exist. It is a fact it doesn't exist. You want it simple? Ok. In the blockchain you have quantity. Quantity is defined as the amount of something. If quantity in the blockchain is Bitcoin then it follows that Bitcoin is the quantity and quantity is Bitcoin. Which is nonsense because in that case Bitcoin would be defined as reference to itself: "Bitcoin is the amount of Bitcoin". And this is obviously nonsensical. So, if in the blockchain we have quantity then outside the blockchain there must be something called Bitcoin that has this quantity. But except quantities, address holders own nothing. Or simply put: Bitcoin doesn't exist.

Are you sure you are 1 person Because you are not actually 1 person you are 37 trillion cells therefore you cannot be one person that can refer to itself and count therefore you don't exist. (no bitcoin isn't conscious)

See how fast I took your Silly argument apart? Using your own Childish logic.

You seem incapable of learning. Your ability to use logic is poor. Do you even exist or are you just a bot? You keep repeating the same argument and still don't understand that Love doesn't exist either Or Time for that matter. If you Are Human then you must either acknowledge that Love and Time do exist thus rendering all your Idiot posting null and void.

Or you are a bot and bots don't learn much or at all.

If you remove me and leave only quantity, either 1 or 37 trillion what do you have? Well, you have number referred to nothing. That's quantity in the blockchain. Number referred to nothing. When you transfer quantity to your address you own xx pieces of nothingness. And that nothingness is called "bitcoin". Thanks for proving my point.

Do acknowledge the existence of time? If the answer is yes then your argument is invalid. And if the answer is no that time does not exist then you cannot type anything to reply to this. That would violate the non-existence of time.

You cannot refute an argument by talking nonsense. You refute it by proving that premises are false or that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises.

There is nothing nonsensical about my argument. By replying you have acknowledged the existence of time. If time didn't exist then you would Not have been able to reply.

Time is a human concept. Humans free falling in space was just a concept.

MONEY is just a concept. Bitcoin.... Just a concept. its not even money not really its just a method of counting that is very difficult to mess with. We invest that phantom number with imaginary value .... Just Like Money. weird isn't it?

And since you didn't understand My Basic idea of things that clearly don't actually exist But, also clearly Do exist. I don't think you can wrap your head around bitcoin and you should just let the adults do the thinking.

And we have refuted your argument something like 30 times now. Which is why I think you are a bot or a Child at this point.

You refuted nothing. You haven't even addressed my premises. You just keep talking nonsense.

When I say to you that you own 50 apartments in Hawaii, these apartments are concept in your head. If I put that concept into a database as data: name - 'Nhazwrath," quantity - "50", asset name - "apartments", your ownership of the apartments still exists only as a concept in your head. You don't own any apartments in reality.

In the same way, when Satoshi Nakamoto said to you via his software that you (your address) own xx Bitcoins, these Bitcoins are just concept in your head. They are imaginary, not real. Just like the above apartments. Puting quantity into a database doesn't make you the owner of something. All you have in blockchain is quantity of imaginary Bitcoins. Bitcoins don't exist in reality, only in fantasy. And in fantasy, you can be and own whatever you want.

Do you now understand why you're talking nonsense?

indo1

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Vave.com - Crypto Casino

I don't really know if bitcoin is a big risk for the future if all of them join. But what I feel right now, the point taken from bitcoin is the technology, even if bitcoin is not initially correct, such as for illegal transactions, illegal weapons and others. By making bitcoin a means of investment it becomes better. Bitcoin also has no physical, but in the digital world he is very famous. I just enjoyed it while I could.

Nhazwrath

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Activity: 289

Merit: 40

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 12:45:11 PM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 11:52:52 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: Nhazwrath on June 07, 2021, 09:36:23 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 07, 2021, 08:49:27 AM

Quote from: davis196 on June 06, 2021, 10:37:42 PM

Do you need to write such a big wall of text in order to explain something that simple?
Sometimes I wonder if all those FUD accounts on the forum are just alt accounts to one person.
Why do you even care?If you are thinking that Bitcoin doesn't exist,then OK,just deal with it and move on with your life.This topic has been explained before.There's no reason for us to explain it again.
If you were scammed and you've lost your Bitcoins,just move on.I believe that most of the FUDsters in the BTC community are people,who lost money.That's why they are bitter about Bitcoin.

I don't "think", but I know Bitcoin doesn't exist. It is a fact it doesn't exist. You want it simple? Ok. In the blockchain you have quantity. Quantity is defined as the amount of something. If quantity in the blockchain is Bitcoin then it follows that Bitcoin is the quantity and quantity is Bitcoin. Which is nonsense because in that case Bitcoin would be defined as reference to itself: "Bitcoin is the amount of Bitcoin". And this is obviously nonsensical. So, if in the blockchain we have quantity then outside the blockchain there must be something called Bitcoin that has this quantity. But except quantities, address holders own nothing. Or simply put: Bitcoin doesn't exist.

Are you sure you are 1 person Because you are not actually 1 person you are 37 trillion cells therefore you cannot be one person that can refer to itself and count therefore you don't exist. (no bitcoin isn't conscious)

See how fast I took your Silly argument apart? Using your own Childish logic.

You seem incapable of learning. Your ability to use logic is poor. Do you even exist or are you just a bot? You keep repeating the same argument and still don't understand that Love doesn't exist either Or Time for that matter. If you Are Human then you must either acknowledge that Love and Time do exist thus rendering all your Idiot posting null and void.

Or you are a bot and bots don't learn much or at all.

If you remove me and leave only quantity, either 1 or 37 trillion what do you have? Well, you have number referred to nothing. That's quantity in the blockchain. Number referred to nothing. When you transfer quantity to your address you own xx pieces of nothingness. And that nothingness is called "bitcoin". Thanks for proving my point.

Do acknowledge the existence of time? If the answer is yes then your argument is invalid. And if the answer is no that time does not exist then you cannot type anything to reply to this. That would violate the non-existence of time.

You cannot refute an argument by talking nonsense. You refute it by proving that premises are false or that the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises.

There is nothing nonsensical about my argument. By replying you have acknowledged the existence of time. If time didn't exist then you would Not have been able to reply.

Time is a human concept. Humans free falling in space was just a concept.

MONEY is just a concept. Bitcoin.... Just a concept. its not even money not really its just a method of counting that is very difficult to mess with. We invest that phantom number with imaginary value .... Just Like Money. weird isn't it?

And since you didn't understand My Basic idea of things that clearly don't actually exist But, also clearly Do exist. I don't think you can wrap your head around bitcoin and you should just let the adults do the thinking.

And we have refuted your argument something like 30 times now. Which is why I think you are a bot or a Child at this point.

zbig001

member

Activity: 162

Merit: 19

It's a matter of social agreement what do we use numbers for.

But let's do not confuse machines and software that operate on numbers (computers, applications) with numbers themselves.
Bitcoin as software (an application capable of creating a monetary network, a network protocol) is a tremendous achievement, perhaps the greatest in the history of mankind.

Satoshi invented money harder even than gold (no one can modify the BTC supply cap, even social agreement might not be enough anymore), and infinitely more useful than gold.

Mahanton

hero member

Activity: 2730

Merit: 632

Quote from: acener on June 07, 2021, 02:48:16 PM

I also doubt it before because I couldn't use it in real life and it is just on the internet and I need to convert it first or sell it to other people before becoming a real money for me.
But that is how it is on this planet everything has it's value depending on the person who see's it,
A piece of rare rock of fossil could be worthless for others but for some it is priceless collection.
If you would say that Bitcoin is an illusion then all the telco company that we are paying to provide internet and mobile loads are also selling lies as well because it is just all a program.

I do respect on each everyones view towards things which does actually have some point but it can be totally be opposed on if you do tend to look
on regarding into its demand. No thing could really progress out if those views are indeed true but instead people do see it as an advantage instead.
Yes, its a piece of code but thinking off on what are the benefits and opportunities that it gives then that what makes it popular or known.
Theres nothing wrong to presume up things but for sure you would really be having change of mind as we progress on.

Topic: Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People - page 4. (Read 1145 times)