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Topic: Bitcoin Dominance rising again. What is happening? - page 5. (Read 2122 times)

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3684
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Any of you guys come across this new dominance metric making its rounds on Twitter now?

Not sure of the exact source but been seeing it a couple of times now I think it was one of those media outlets strangely can't put a name to it right now. I'd post the Tweet if I could find it, was actually a series of Tweets/charts, comparing Bitcoin US dollar equivalent of monetary value to that of other countries. My search skill is bad =\

I recall it being even bigger than that of Malaysia and of 3 African countries combined. I know it's just a different way of calculating but I'd take it any time over crypto market cap!
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Lessions learned, alts are never to come back.
At least: not these alts.

that is something that the newcomers who are now bag holding tons of different altcoins in their so called "portfolios" don't want to accept. some time ago someone posted a screenshot of coinmarketcap website that belonged to a couple of years ago. it was funny to see the "top" coins of that time and how they were hyped up so much and people were thinking they all are going to live side by side of bitcoin and there were even talk of "replacing" bitcoin! that list doesn't look anything like today's list but people still have the same expectations

I guess Litecoin is still there

And if we compare the recent bottoms of both coins (i.e. 22 dollars vs 3300), Litecoin is still outperforming Bitcoin overall. And this remains true even if we take into account that Litecoin has been losing to Bitcoin last weeks. Actually, with Litecoin halving coming in a couple days, it will likely surge again (and this surge may have already started, by the way). To sum it up, not all altcoins are born equal

According to PlanB, as you can read on my June Report, halvening isn't having any measurable impact on Litecoin price, as opposed of what is happening for bitcoin.
Regarding the Litecoin overperforming BTC, welol, I can't see all this evidence

I think we should compare within the period I specified

That is, the period from the recent bottoms (both Litecoin's and Bitcoin's earlier this year) till now, and within this period specifically Litecoin is still a better alternative to Bitcoin if you primarily aim for speculation. Regarding Litecoin halving, it is yet to happen (in a day or so), while its effect will take some time to reveal itself

And as I've written elsewhere, the decrease in the supply of new coins due to halving can't be fully priced in. It takes time to develop and affect the price for real (as it happened with Bitcoin in 2016). Long story short, it is the market which will decide on the fate of Litecoin (and Bitcoin too, for the record), not us writing here
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
And if we compare the recent bottoms of both coins (i.e. 22 dollars vs 3300), Litecoin is still outperforming Bitcoin overall. And this remains true even if we take into account that Litecoin has been losing to Bitcoin last weeks. Actually, with Litecoin halving coming in a couple days, it will likely surge again (and this surge may have already started, by the way). To sum it up, not all altcoins are born equal

I rather don't think one is entitled to use words like overall when we've chosen partial timescales. Fact is overall LTC has underperformed.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
So, as long we disagree on the premises of the reasoning (to me LTC is a all round shitcoin,for you it has validity as "Bitcoin Testbed") , we agree on the consequences (LTC is rubbish).
Well, it's a start!


I don't think there is much disagreement, because your point is valid too simply for the reason that we have a Bitcoin testnet for testing purposes, hence the name. It's just so that Charlie Lee has done a lot to make sure his coin will be the first to run certain implementations to see how they fare with mainnet use. It's a clever way to add some usefulness to Litecoin.

The major aspect that makes Litecoin valuable is its network effect. After by default listing Bitcoin and Ethereum, new exchanges are very likely to list Litecoin. It's too important as property and for that reason can't be ignored.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
According to PlanB, as you can read on my June Report, halvening isn't having any measurable impact on Litecoin price, as opposed of what is happening for bitcoin.
Regarding the Litecoin overperforming BTC, welol, I can't see all this evidence:



Long gone are the days when LTC was "silver to Bitcoin Gold" or "Testbed for Bitcoin".
Now LTC is like every other shitcoin.

Except Litceoin massively outperformed the rest of the altcoin market recently. Look at the December-March period where it totally outperformed Bitcoin, too. This is the reason people started speculating the bull run was being driven by the LTC halving, because LTC's momentum was so strong.

As it turned out, too many people bought into the halvening hype and it didn't play out, but LTC was a great hold through Q1.

LTC has for sure overperformed other altcoins, but has underperformed BTC. This is what we meant and why it is relevant for the subject of the thread: BTC dominance is relevant.
As already said: BTC halvening is irrelevant, who bought for this has of course bought a massive pump scheme.

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
According to PlanB, as you can read on my June Report, halvening isn't having any measurable impact on Litecoin price, as opposed of what is happening for bitcoin.
Regarding the Litecoin overperforming BTC, welol, I can't see all this evidence:



Long gone are the days when LTC was "silver to Bitcoin Gold" or "Testbed for Bitcoin".
Now LTC is like every other shitcoin.

Except Litceoin massively outperformed the rest of the altcoin market recently. Look at the December-March period where it totally outperformed Bitcoin, too. This is the reason people started speculating the bull run was being driven by the LTC halving, because LTC's momentum was so strong.

As it turned out, too many people bought into the halvening hype and it didn't play out, but LTC was a great hold through Q1.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Long gone are the days when LTC was "silver to Bitcoin Gold" or "Testbed for Bitcoin".
Now LTC is like every other shitcoin.

I'm pretty sure Litecoin will still be a testbed for Bitcoin and for that reason enjoy some degree of popularity, but it's definitely not the 'Silver' to Bitcoin, and it never has been. It was something made up by those supporting Litecoin to make it look cooler than it actually is.

In the end, Litecoin's all time charts are ugly af. It's extremely bearish when you 5 years later dump far below your 2013 high. Solid indication that you're dealing with rubbish here.

So, as long we disagree on the premises of the reasoning (to me LTC is a all round shitcoin,for you it has validity as "Bitcoin Testbed") , we agree on the consequences (LTC is rubbish).
Well, it's a start!
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 2100
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After somedays of stable price, bitcoin has gotten a $10000+ which I think is a significant move. Domination is again increasing and altcoins are having so bad days. I think bitcoin will have a new ATH within this year.
legendary
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
Long gone are the days when LTC was "silver to Bitcoin Gold" or "Testbed for Bitcoin".
Now LTC is like every other shitcoin.

I'm pretty sure Litecoin will still be a testbed for Bitcoin and for that reason enjoy some degree of popularity, but it's definitely not the 'Silver' to Bitcoin, and it never has been. It was something made up by those supporting Litecoin to make it look cooler than it actually is.

In the end, Litecoin's all time charts are ugly af. It's extremely bearish when you 5 years later dump far below your 2013 high. Solid indication that you're dealing with rubbish here.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Lessions learned, alts are never to come back.
At least: not these alts.

that is something that the newcomers who are now bag holding tons of different altcoins in their so called "portfolios" don't want to accept. some time ago someone posted a screenshot of coinmarketcap website that belonged to a couple of years ago. it was funny to see the "top" coins of that time and how they were hyped up so much and people were thinking they all are going to live side by side of bitcoin and there were even talk of "replacing" bitcoin! that list doesn't look anything like today's list but people still have the same expectations

I guess Litecoin is still there

And if we compare the recent bottoms of both coins (i.e. 22 dollars vs 3300), Litecoin is still outperforming Bitcoin overall. And this remains true even if we take into account that Litecoin has been losing to Bitcoin last weeks. Actually, with Litecoin halving coming in a couple days, it will likely surge again (and this surge may have already started, by the way). To sum it up, not all altcoins are born equal

According to PlanB, as you can read on my June Report, halvening isn't having any measurable impact on Litecoin price, as opposed of what is happening for bitcoin.
Regarding the Litecoin overperforming BTC, welol, I can't see all this evidence:



Long gone are the days when LTC was "silver to Bitcoin Gold" or "Testbed for Bitcoin".
Now LTC is like every other shitcoin.



legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Lessions learned, alts are never to come back.
At least: not these alts.

that is something that the newcomers who are now bag holding tons of different altcoins in their so called "portfolios" don't want to accept. some time ago someone posted a screenshot of coinmarketcap website that belonged to a couple of years ago. it was funny to see the "top" coins of that time and how they were hyped up so much and people were thinking they all are going to live side by side of bitcoin and there were even talk of "replacing" bitcoin! that list doesn't look anything like today's list but people still have the same expectations

I guess Litecoin is still there

And if we compare the recent bottoms of both coins (i.e. 22 dollars vs 3300), Litecoin is still outperforming Bitcoin overall. And this remains true even if we take into account that Litecoin has been losing to Bitcoin last weeks. Actually, with Litecoin halving coming in a couple days, it will likely surge again (and this surge may have already started, by the way). To sum it up, not all altcoins are born equal
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Reading from Coinometrics State of the Network weekly newsletter Issue 10 we have a confirmation of what we empirically observed:

Quote
CM Bletchley Indexes (CMBI) Insights
Correlation charts can provide interesting insight into the expected price relationship between assets. A correlation of 1 or -1 implies a perfect positive or negative relationship between two assets. Through assessing the correlation of Bletchley assets we can derive insight into how the market has been behaving.

During the bear market of 2018, generally speaking, much of crypto was correlated with Bletchley Indexes all having a correlation score >0.9 (i.e. If any of the Indexes increased, the most likely scenario was that the others increased as well, the same can be said for a decrease). However, since the beginning of the year Bitcoin has continually outperformed most of its peers. Since the Bletchley 10 is comprised ~70% of Bitcoin, the performance of the Bletchley 10 has outperformed the Bletchley 20 and Bletchley 40. Additionally, the level of correlation between them has reduced to around 0.7. This demonstrates a lower relationship between the price movement of the Bletchley 10 with the Bletchley 20 and Bletchley 40. However, more recently there is a flattening and even a slight increase in correlation, potentially signalling an improvement in short term strength for mid and low market cap assets.




Dominance has been high lately: after the local maximum at 66.45, it is slightly down at 64.72 at the time of writing. Again, I wouldn't read too much in tiny fluctuation, when the important thing is the long term dynamic.





In the last issue the same newsletter tried to explain why Bitcoin is rising against all other crypto. I think we nailed down all the best explaination.

Quote
Bitcoin Outperformance Driven by Regulatory, Geopolitical, and Macroeconomic Factors

Several narratives explain the strong relative outperformance in bitcoin over this period:

Although there have been few public announcements by U.S. regulators, the body of evidence that U.S. regulators are exerting more pressure on market participants continues to grow. Earlier this year, Poloniex, Bittrex, and Binance all took steps to restrict U.S. traders from participating in certain markets. In June, the SEC filed a lawsuit in connection with Kin’s token offering in a clear indication that the SEC will be unyielding in its interpretation of existing securities law. The CFTC has also begun an investigation into BitMEX and whether it has allowed U.S. investors to trade on its platform.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin recently stated in a White House press briefing that he had “very serious concerns” about cryptocurrencies and stated that crypto businesses must comply with the Bank Secrecy Act and register with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. And Facebook’s launch of Libra has sparked congressional scrutiny with two separate Senate committees holding hearings about Libra and cryptocurrencies.

The net impact of these events is to drive crypto capital towards Bitcoin, which thus far has the most regulatory clarity.

Additionally, heightened geopolitical tensions and a growing acceptance that Bitcoin serves as a digital store of value and hedge in uncertain times has provided support. The recent increase in geopolitical risk has been driven primarily by the U.S.-China trade dispute, but also by the increased threat of disruption of global oil supplies in the Middle East, the resurgence of Eurozone fragmentation risk (particularly increased risk that Italy may leave), and growing tensions in Hong Kong.

The correlation between Bitcoin and gold has been particularly strong over the recent past as investors increasingly seek haven assets. Gold recently has exceeded key technical price levels and reached a six-year high.

Lastly, the macroeconomic environment has decisively shifted over the past several months in the direction of more monetary easing. Specifically, real interest rates (inflation-adjusted interest rates) have come down across the board in major developed world countries and across most durations. Pockets of weakness in forward-looking macroeconomic indicators have increased market participants’ expectations of a recession and combined with the dramatic shift in forward guidance by major central banks, interest rates have sharply declined. It now seems nearly certain that the four major central banks of the world (the Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, the Bank of Japan, and the People’s Bank of China) are on the cusp of another monetary easing cycle. As real interest rates decline, the opportunity cost of holding non-yield producing assets like Bitcoin declines. Moreover, since many short-term interest rates around the world are close to the effective lower bound, central banks will once again have to consider the use of quantitative easing and other unconventional monetary tools that risk long-term instability.

Although the empirical evidence around Bitcoin’s reaction function to changes in future monetary policy and expectations in growth and inflation is mixed, on balance, this factor should provide further long-term support to Bitcoin prices.
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 672
Doesn't the reasons you have given all points out to the cryptocurrencies dominating the market and not only Bitcoin? Not if you are only talking about how Bitcoin will maintain market dominance because of it. With all the developments and progress we have in the crypto industry all cryptocurrencies are affected and because Bitcoin being the market leader it gives us assurance that the rest of the cryptos will be influence by it not against it. I know the current situation now where most of the cryptos are bleeding but its not always like that, its just because majority of the money now is with the big mover and that is Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
The most recent bear market exposed a lot of ICOs and alternative e currencies. I know of a number of reputable ICO/STO managers who pulled out due to lack of credible projects. Only the projects with actual products and use case survived.

That's what bear markets do best. There's an old saying about it: "You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out."

Everything looks rosy during the bull market when investment capital is flowing and operations can be funded on a portion of capital gains alone. This washing out of unsustainable projects (and money flowing back into Bitcoin) is all part of the market cycle.

If you like to ride altcoin investments during bull markets, keep your eyes peeled for the next big thing. Because by the time the next altcoin season finally arrives (could be many months out still), ICOs and IEOs and STOs probably won't look as interesting as the new kid on the block. You've got to stay ahead of the hype!
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 2248
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The most recent bear market exposed a lot of ICOs and alternative e currencies. I know of a number of reputable ICO/STO managers who pulled out due to lack of credible projects. Only the projects with actual products and use case survived.
This action caused most to lose faith in most altcoins and shift to Bitcoin and the few alts that actually have product value, hence the rise in BTC dominance.
Also the current mini bull run started with Bitcoin while other currencies were slow at growing, FOMO drove investors to BTC as well.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Just a small update:
Bitcoin dominance still high, after having hit a top at 66.20%.



 A recap of the two most interesting comments since last update:

Also, from a fundamental standpoint, perhaps the implementation of LN had something to do with it as well. Scalability was a huge reason why people were inclined to use alts, but with that issue somewhat tackled, the demand for these alternatives isn't there as much.

In the 2013 and 2017 bull markets, altcoins rallied massively during the final 2-3 weeks of Bitcoin's bubble. That's when euphoria is occurring. No one is selling their BTC for dollars anymore, and everyone is pouring it into riskier investments.

The altcoin markets will probably wait at least until BTC reaches a new ATH to start getting interesting. That's when the Ethereum/ICO bubble started in early 2017, after Bitcoin reached a new ATH and corrected.

So , basically the first suggest bitcoin dominance is not going down further on, while the others suggests, bitcoin might go down again, as long as we progress toward the next, inevitable, ATH, we are too early in the bull cycle, basically.

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
The fact that this is the start of a bull market, and we are nowhere near euphoria yet. People are still very risk averse, and given that fact, they default to investing in BTC which they deem as the safest crypto asset (sort of like T-bills in the bond market).

This is a big part of it.

In the 2013 and 2017 bull markets, altcoins rallied massively during the final 2-3 weeks of Bitcoin's bubble. That's when euphoria is occurring. No one is selling their BTC for dollars anymore, and everyone is pouring it into riskier investments.

The altcoin markets will probably wait at least until BTC reaches a new ATH to start getting interesting. That's when the Ethereum/ICO bubble started in early 2017, after Bitcoin reached a new ATH and corrected.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Quote
Market dominance is a shitty indicator, we all know why: it is based on market prices. After Bitwise report, where we learnt that many exchanges faked volumes, and ultimately prices themselves, we cannot ignore anymore those flaws.
Still dominance can point in the right directions to intresting thoughts about markets in a broader way.

Market dominance just broke the peak during Dec '17 (price) ATH, and at 65,2% it is now at the highest levels since April 2017.

Conventional wisdom would have told you that as the bull market progresses, you would see bitcoin dominance decrease due to the fact that people like to take risks while markets are bullish. I think that the two main reasons that this is not happening as follows.

1. As you mentioned, institutional money. They are more inclined towards investing in BTC because it is the most stable, most long term proven crypto. Anything else for them with a smaller market cap would simply be too little liquidity. Market anticipation of this kind of institutional interest occurring is probably a self fulfilling prophecy in of itself.

2. The fact that this is the start of a bull market, and we are nowhere near euphoria yet. People are still very risk averse, and given that fact, they default to investing in BTC which they deem as the safest crypto asset (sort of like T-bills in the bond market).

Also, from a fundamental standpoint, perhaps the implementation of LN had something to do with it as well. Scalability was a huge reason why people were inclined to use alts, but with that issue somewhat tackled, the demand for these alternatives isn't there as much.

Nice point on the impact of LN and second layer on BTC dominance. Sadly I'm out of sMerits!
hero member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 596
Quote
Market dominance is a shitty indicator, we all know why: it is based on market prices. After Bitwise report, where we learnt that many exchanges faked volumes, and ultimately prices themselves, we cannot ignore anymore those flaws.
Still dominance can point in the right directions to intresting thoughts about markets in a broader way.

Market dominance just broke the peak during Dec '17 (price) ATH, and at 65,2% it is now at the highest levels since April 2017.

Conventional wisdom would have told you that as the bull market progresses, you would see bitcoin dominance decrease due to the fact that people like to take risks while markets are bullish. I think that the two main reasons that this is not happening as follows.

1. As you mentioned, institutional money. They are more inclined towards investing in BTC because it is the most stable, most long term proven crypto. Anything else for them with a smaller market cap would simply be too little liquidity. Market anticipation of this kind of institutional interest occurring is probably a self fulfilling prophecy in of itself.

2. The fact that this is the start of a bull market, and we are nowhere near euphoria yet. People are still very risk averse, and given that fact, they default to investing in BTC which they deem as the safest crypto asset (sort of like T-bills in the bond market).

Also, from a fundamental standpoint, perhaps the implementation of LN had something to do with it as well. Scalability was a huge reason why people were inclined to use alts, but with that issue somewhat tackled, the demand for these alternatives isn't there as much.
sr. member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 391

  • Technology has progressed, people studied and has understood better how cryptos work, so they came to the right conclusion shitcoins are indeed...shitcoins. Shitcoins value proposition has since faced and now they are clearly revealed for what they have always been: (kind of elaborate) exit scams by fraudster to transfer your bitcoin in their wallets.

I agree with this reason, and I think this is maybe one of the most important reason why bitcoin dominance is so high, and altcoins do not follow king of crypto as was the case in the past. Many investors are burn too much money with altcoins, and they see that only bitcoin is crypto with purpose. There is a saying “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.”


Merit for you Fillippone who, as always, provides excellent arguments for reflection, even if this time I am only partially in agreement. Besides Bitcoin there are not only shitcoin, or rather there is to separate shitcoin and shitcoin; in the marketcap there are over 4000 and altcoin passes and most probably many will disappear, maybe .... or maybe not!

In essence, and by analyzing the data better, who really cares about 4000 Coins? The numbers today tell us that the entire crypto market is worth about $ 260 billion, with only Bitcoin worth $ 170 billion (around 65%), which means that 4000 Coins share the remaining $ 90 billion; analyzing these numbers even better we can see that of these $ 90 billion, the first 10 Coins, after Bitcoin, "are worth" about $ 60 billion, or 66% of the entire cake; the next 10 coins (from 11 to 20) are worth $ 10.5 billion, from position 21 to 30 there are $ 4.5 billion, from 31 to 40 there are $ 2.5 billion, from 41 to 50 there they are $ 1.5 billion, from $ 51 to $ 60, there are $ 1 billion, there are $ 1 billion, from $ 71 to $ 80, $ 81 to $ 80, and from 91 to 100 there are $ 620 million.
Basically the other 99 crypto after Bitcoin capitalize as many as 85 of the $ 90 billion currently on the market, that is over 90% of the rest, that is, about 95% of all the capitalization of the crypto is concentrated in the first 100 Coins !!!

So the question is: what do we care about the other 4000 coins / shitcoins? of the scams associated with them? of the money they burn on them? about pump & dump of the various coins?
They are part of the system and "inevitable", and they are insignificant numbers, background noise, used for different purposes and purposes, today by governments, yesterday by miners and speculators, tomorrow by associations and funds.



Even if institutional money is leading with Bitcoin there's a whole world of saps out there who'll swallow the 'next Bitcoin' narrative no matter what's actually screaming in their face.


Correct, but in the end it is not a question of discovering the new Bitcoin but of being able to find that new Coin that can be functional and useful in the everyday real world; the new and unexpressed use of Blockchain technology is immense and it cannot be reduced "only" to the exchange of money or to the reserve of value (what appears to be Bitcoin today), but there are many applications and fields still unexplored, in where an avalanche of money will be ready to flow when the opportunity arises.


The truth is simple - altcoins were in a bubble, much bigger bubble than Bitcoin was, realistically there's no way more than a dozen of coins can co-exist - the point of money is to be universal, so just like the US dollar is welcomed everywhere in the world, Bitcoin is the king of crypto. Tons of altcoins were claiming that they will dethrone Bitcoin, but when investors started realizing that it was a lie, those coins started losing their value.

Realistically, much more than a dozen coins can coexist for me, and much more than today's 4000, but in essence they will be of no use, as they are today, and will have a quotation that will reflect their value and potential, namely NOTHING!
Everything is functional to the market and, as repeated by several users
"Money got separated by stupids.
This is a natural and unstoppable process.
Hopefully it is for the Good."



Finally a final consideration:
the dominance of Bitcoin today is at 65% but in fact it fluctuates and varies like all the indices or the same coins, touching points of resistance and points of support; in fact it has gone from 100%, when there was just Bitcoin, to about 32% last January 2018.

I'm not good at drawing graphics, resistances and supports, but I just observe and evaluate the work of others, so I show you the work of a user, found on twitter
https://twitter.com/paddystash/status/1150141415399276545/video/1
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