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Topic: Bitcoin halving to be canceled? - page 27. (Read 33718 times)

legendary
Activity: 3486
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November 05, 2015, 02:06:41 AM
I think you make it too complicated. Yes, the reward is some kind of inflation maybe but in fact it isn't. The price ONLY get's established on the exchanges and markets. Which means only what all users believe bitcoin should be worth will be what bitcoin will be worth. And miner rewards and other things seems to have no impact on that.

I don't see how it can be too complicated. When miners sell their stash of coins, they are just like any other Bitcoin sellers, and the effect they have on the price is in no way different than it would be if someone else had sold the same coins. The only difference is that they sell newly minted coins. The price changing effect is absolutely the same. If what you say were true, it would mean that the bitcoins that miners produce and sell somehow avoid affecting the price of Bitcoin...

In short, you shouldn't consider the miner's reward in isolation, taken per se, but you should look at the supply of new coins which enters the market and where the reward plays a secondary role as a factor in quantifying the amount of this supply
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
November 04, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
Who has the authority to cancel halving? Absolutely no one, that's who.

Yeah this is nonsense.

Also about the blockchain split, in the unfortunate even that this happened, your funds would be availible on both chains, so you would never lose money.

I wouldn't worry much about those things tho, I find the whole debate to be very overly dramatic and overblown. Just keep on collecting the cheap coins while it's still 3 figures.
absolute nonsense, I agree. Purely academical exercise to imagine what happen if the unrealistic 'if' would happen one day. It won't. The market cap is to big now to make it scalable. It is like with Internet, the last flag off day was back in 1981 when the change to TCP protocol was made. Already back then it didn't go smooth to update all machines in one day. Since then nobody even thought seriously about such option, taking into account the scale of things. We are not there yet with Bitcoin, but we are definitely beyond the point were such 'games' would be feasible.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1112
November 04, 2015, 05:47:30 PM
Never happening unless Bitcoin gets hit by a 51% attack. I really doubt that the majority of full nodes will start consenting to blocks which don't follow the normal rules of the halving of the Bitcoin reward unless some kind of fork like Bitcoin-XT goes mainstream, which I doubt.
legendary
Activity: 2674
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November 04, 2015, 05:37:09 PM
Why? The rewards for miners are way way too high. Nowadays the networks hashpower is 100 times higher then it would be needed. The consequences of this are that each and every transactions costs electricity of the size 1.75 average US-households use each day. Bigger transactions cost even more.

How do you know that? Or, to put it in a different perspective, the rewards (taken cumulatively) are what the market sets them to be. If Bitcoin was cheaper, less miners would be interested in mining...

That is from a study published some weeks, or months ago.

The price of the currency unfortunately can't be found as the price of the currency and at the same time be found as the fair reward for miners. That doesn't work. So the price get's established by the users but the effect is that mining is so rewarding that bitcoin is a huge energy waste at the moment. Well, better then the opposite, bitcoin would die when it would be not secure enough. But still a problem i think.
legendary
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November 04, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
will not happen. it's something you can't mess with as satoshi made bitcoin in the way he think it will work in the best way possible for us. the community would defenitely not agree with this.

What is community?

I think the reward halving might have devastating consequences on the Bitcoin ecosystem. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is not just a digital currency. It is also a payment system which is backing up this currency, and its success (or failure) predetermines Bitcoin's ultimate destiny as money...

Why do you think it will have a devastating effect on the bitcoin ecosystem? The price of bitcoin is determined of the believe of those holding, selling and buying. The reward for miners does play no role in this

I have explained my premises in another thread. In the simplest of terms, Bitcoin is more like a Ponzi right now. No one exchanges anything of real value ("real stuff") for it at the moment. Then again, the miners' reward is part of Bitcoin supply, their bitcoins are no different from someone else's, thereby it cannot be discarded as having no role in the price discovering mechanism (which directly affects the beliefs of those who hold, buy and sell)...

If you stop considering just the nominal reward rate (25 BTC or whatever) and instead take the number of bitcoins that miners earn as an aggregate, you will see where your reasoning fails

I think you make it too complicated. Yes, the reward is some kind of inflation maybe but in fact it isn't. The price ONLY get's established on the exchanges and markets. Which means only what all users believe bitcoin should be worth will be what bitcoin will be worth. And miner rewards and other things seems to have no impact on that.

No real stuff, that is way too hard. The adoption is not as it should but still good.

And real value... everytime someone buys bitcoins with fiat or sells it for fiat it means he puts value into bitcoin or takes it out of bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
November 04, 2015, 04:36:05 PM
Who has the most power over Bitcoin? Right, these are mining pools.






it's holding people with BTC fund ... right now.
because 70% of BTC have already mined.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
November 04, 2015, 02:56:12 PM
Who has the authority to cancel halving? Absolutely no one, that's who.

Yeah this is nonsense.

Also about the blockchain split, in the unfortunate even that this happened, your funds would be availible on both chains, so you would never lose money.

I wouldn't worry much about those things tho, I find the whole debate to be very overly dramatic and overblown. Just keep on collecting the cheap coins while it's still 3 figures.

Only the funds obtained before the split, not the one after. For a miner this is a problem because they are actually getting the fund in one or the other. Not both.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
November 04, 2015, 02:48:49 PM
Who has the authority to cancel halving? Absolutely no one, that's who.

Yeah this is nonsense.

Also about the blockchain split, in the unfortunate even that this happened, your funds would be availible on both chains, so you would never lose money.

I wouldn't worry much about those things tho, I find the whole debate to be very overly dramatic and overblown. Just keep on collecting the cheap coins while it's still 3 figures.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
November 04, 2015, 02:32:33 PM
Who has the authority to cancel halving? Absolutely no one, that's who.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
November 04, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure


of course it will happen

miners can't just change the protocol, blocks would be rejected by other miners and nodes (nodes aren't necessarily miners)



Miners can absolutely change the protocol, with consensus, which will absolutely not happen. The nodes are indeed not necessarily with any hashrate but they also have no voice power. The blockchain follow the hashrate, the nodes are just a tool for broadcasting.

Exactly, but if the miners don't get broadcasts from nodes, their version of Bitcoin becomes useless.

If miners decide to not participate in the halving they are from that point forward no longer mining Bitcoin, but a new altcoin. It won't be compatible with the true Bitcoin blockchain, other miners and nodes will reject it.

Most mining nodes are being run by the pools which have absolutely no interest in splitting the blockchain since anyone who end up on the wrong side will lose money, thus will they.

So as long as people do pool mining, there will not be many people trying to mine the wrong chain, nor am i super anyone will really try to mine 25BTC blocks after the halving, they would squarely get rejected by the network.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
November 04, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure


of course it will happen

miners can't just change the protocol, blocks would be rejected by other miners and nodes (nodes aren't necessarily miners)



Miners can absolutely change the protocol, with consensus, which will absolutely not happen. The nodes are indeed not necessarily with any hashrate but they also have no voice power. The blockchain follow the hashrate, the nodes are just a tool for broadcasting.

Exactly, but if the miners don't get broadcasts from nodes, their version of Bitcoin becomes useless.

If miners decide to not participate in the halving they are from that point forward no longer mining Bitcoin, but a new altcoin. It won't be compatible with the true Bitcoin blockchain, other miners and nodes will reject it.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 100
November 04, 2015, 07:27:05 AM
The bitcoin halving should not be cancelled. Even if there is no bitcoin halving, we issue bitcoin all the time, the coin inflation will be close to 0% in a hundred years. The newly issued coin will compensate for the lost coins.

Monero has a small less than 1% inflation forever.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
November 04, 2015, 05:50:55 AM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

It will happen like it has before, there is no version of Bitcoin that I would support that removes that in 2016.
Miners will need to take solace in the increased trading volume that has occurred over the last four years and incentives such as transaction fees in a realm of higher Bitcoin prices.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
November 04, 2015, 05:42:48 AM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure
the halving will not be prevented.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
November 04, 2015, 05:23:41 AM
Why? The rewards for miners are way way too high. Nowadays the networks hashpower is 100 times higher then it would be needed. The consequences of this are that each and every transactions costs electricity of the size 1.75 average US-households use each day. Bigger transactions cost even more.

How do you know that? Or, to put it in a different perspective, the rewards (taken cumulatively) are what the market sets them to be. If Bitcoin was cheaper, less miners would be interested in mining...
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
November 04, 2015, 05:16:22 AM
will not happen. it's something you can't mess with as satoshi made bitcoin in the way he think it will work in the best way possible for us. the community would defenitely not agree with this.

What is community?

I think the reward halving might have devastating consequences on the Bitcoin ecosystem. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is not just a digital currency. It is also a payment system which is backing up this currency, and its success (or failure) predetermines Bitcoin's ultimate destiny as money...

Why do you think it will have a devastating effect on the bitcoin ecosystem? The price of bitcoin is determined of the believe of those holding, selling and buying. The reward for miners does play no role in this

I have explained my premises in another thread. In the simplest of terms, Bitcoin is more like a Ponzi right now. No one exchanges anything of real value ("real stuff") for it at the moment. Then again, the miners' reward is part of Bitcoin supply, their bitcoins are no different from someone else's, thereby it cannot be discarded as having no role in the price discovering mechanism (which directly affects the beliefs of those who hold, buy and sell)...

If you stop considering just the nominal reward rate (25 BTC or whatever) and instead take the number of bitcoins that miners earn as an aggregate, you will see where your reasoning fails
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
November 03, 2015, 05:37:48 PM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure


of course it will happen

miners can't just change the protocol, blocks would be rejected by other miners and nodes (nodes aren't necessarily miners)



Miners can absolutely change the protocol, with consensus, which will absolutely not happen. The nodes are indeed not necessarily with any hashrate but they also have no voice power. The blockchain follow the hashrate, the nodes are just a tool for broadcasting.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
November 03, 2015, 05:35:43 PM
There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure


of course it will happen

miners can't just change the protocol, blocks would be rejected by other miners and nodes (nodes aren't necessarily miners)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
November 03, 2015, 05:20:16 PM
will not happen. it's something you can't mess with as satoshi made bitcoin in the way he think it will work in the best way possible for us. the community would defenitely not agree with this.

What is community?

I think the reward halving might have devastating consequences on the Bitcoin ecosystem. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is not just a digital currency. It is also a payment system which is backing up this currency, and its success (or failure) predetermines Bitcoin's ultimate destiny as money...

Why do you think it will have a devastating effect on the bitcoin ecosystem? The price of bitcoin is determined of the believe of those holding, selling and buying. The reward for miners does play no role in this.

In fact the halving should come to make bitcoin better. And we should avoid trying to enforce a "fee market" by forcing bitcoin transactions in 1MB blocks, like some propose.

Why? The rewards for miners are way way too high. Nowadays the networks hashpower is 100 times higher then it would be needed. The consequences of this are that each and every transactions costs electricity of the size 1.75 average US-households use each day. Bigger transactions cost even more.

This is not healthy. Miners had to be switched off as unprofitable. This has to happen again. The reward halving is a welcome step.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
September 26, 2015, 11:36:46 AM
Whatever the condition, I think it will eventually balanced out. If a miner finds it hard to maintain profitability and dropped out, there will always be others who will know how to operate efficiently to cover the mining cost. Provided that demand for the coins remains strong, this will also have positive effect on the price. Thus whatever the scenario, bitcoin will survive through.

Most certainly it will in the end. But it makes a big difference at which price that will happen. I'm dead sure that if it falls to sub $100 level (which is quite possible), many of those who are right now mindlessly and blindly endorsing the coming halving will have to rethink their attitude...
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