Bitcoin halving to be canceled? - page 28.

Q7

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Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:55:43 PM

Quote from: randy8777 on September 22, 2015, 12:50:45 PM

will not happen. it's something you can't mess with as satoshi made bitcoin in the way he think it will work in the best way possible for us. the community would defenitely not agree with this.

What is community?

I think the reward halving might have devastating consequences on the Bitcoin ecosystem. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is not just a digital currency. It is also a payment system which is backing up this currency, and its success (or failure) predetermines Bitcoin's ultimate destiny as money...

I just thought we are generating too much hype. On one side I can see people predicting we will get to see an eventual increase in the price while the other side, looking at a total failure of the whole system, if that was what I tried to intrepret from your conversation.

Whatever the condition, I think it will eventually balanced out. If a miner finds it hard to maintain profitability and dropped out, there will always be others who will know how to operate efficiently to cover the mining cost. Provided that demand for the coins remains strong, this will also have positive effect on the price. Thus whatever the scenario, bitcoin will survive through.

n2004al

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Quote from: Ibian on September 26, 2015, 10:54:21 AM

Quote from: n2004al on September 26, 2015, 08:28:46 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:11:24 PM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

I'm afraid that is not possible to stop the halving of the bitcoin because this characteristic is in its algorithm of production. I'm not a specialist but according to BitcoinWiki: "Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every four years.The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are: it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number."

Then:

"This decreasing-supply algorithm was chosen because it approximates the rate at which commodities like gold are mined. Users who use their computers to perform calculations to try and discover a block are thus called Miners."

Why are you afraid of it?

Good observation! Congrats mate. It an expression which derive from the language of my country (at least here is used) and express the fear that can born when something you want cannot happen.

It is not the classic fear like fear from death or fear from something very bad. Is fear in the meaning that is possibility to be verified something that cannot be made even if wanted with all the hart.

Ibian

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Quote from: n2004al on September 26, 2015, 08:28:46 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:11:24 PM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

I'm afraid that is not possible to stop the halving of the bitcoin because this characteristic is in its algorithm of production. I'm not a specialist but according to BitcoinWiki: "Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every four years.The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are: it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number."

Then:

"This decreasing-supply algorithm was chosen because it approximates the rate at which commodities like gold are mined. Users who use their computers to perform calculations to try and discover a block are thus called Miners."

Why are you afraid of it?

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on September 26, 2015, 10:17:45 AM

If they (Bitcoin Foundation) are going to cancel the block reward halving, then I am going to dump my coins and exit the Bitcoin sector. If they change the fundamentals every now and then, what is the difference between Bitcoin and a fiat currency such as the United States Dollar? Already we are having more than enough issues with the block size.

If Bitcoin is destined to survive, that won't be on the score of those who are trying to buy it cheaper in hope of selling it dearer. Otherwise it wouldn't be much different from yet another financial pyramid...

And it wouldn't have lasted long in the first place

bryant.coleman

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If they (Bitcoin Foundation) are going to cancel the block reward halving, then I am going to dump my coins and exit the Bitcoin sector. If they change the fundamentals every now and then, what is the difference between Bitcoin and a fiat currency such as the United States Dollar? Already we are having more than enough issues with the block size.

n2004al

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Quote from: deisik on September 26, 2015, 08:38:20 AM

Quote from: n2004al on September 26, 2015, 08:28:46 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:11:24 PM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

I'm afraid that is not possible to stop the halving of the bitcoin because this characteristic is in its algorithm of production. I'm not a specialist but according to BitcoinWiki: "Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every four years.The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are: it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number."

It has been discussed earlier in the thread. In short, there are no technical issues to change this behavior

Naturally that algorithm of production can be changed but with this must be agreed from all the team who develops the core of bitcoin. Those cannot agree the size of blocks. Speak and agree about this problem I think it was more difficult. First of all because have other problems to solve before.

deisik

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Quote from: n2004al on September 26, 2015, 08:28:46 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:11:24 PM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

I'm afraid that is not possible to stop the halving of the bitcoin because this characteristic is in its algorithm of production. I'm not a specialist but according to BitcoinWiki: "Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every four years.The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are: it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number."

It has been discussed earlier in the thread. In short, there are no technical issues to change this behavior

n2004al

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Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:11:24 PM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

I'm afraid that is not possible to stop the halving of the bitcoin because this characteristic is in its algorithm of production. I'm not a specialist but according to BitcoinWiki: "Bitcoins are created each time a user discovers a new block. The rate of block creation is approximately constant over time: 6 per hour. The number of bitcoins generated per block is set to decrease geometrically, with a 50% reduction every four years.The result is that the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.[2] Speculated justifications for the unintuitive value "21 million" are: it matches a 4-year reward halving schedule; or the ultimate total number of Satoshis that will be mined is close to the maximum capacity of a 64-bit floating point number."

Then:

"This decreasing-supply algorithm was chosen because it approximates the rate at which commodities like gold are mined. Users who use their computers to perform calculations to try and discover a block are thus called Miners."

deisik

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Quote from: Slark on September 26, 2015, 05:45:53 AM

If something like bitcoin halving ever get cancelled and changed how exactly devs are gonna explain this?
Crucial matter like halving is precisely planned, designed and anticipated bye everyone. Changing it would shaken bitcoin economy and put it in very uncomfortable spot because if halving can be changed then maybe devs will next change total number of bitcoin?

First, it is not up to devs to decide. Second, the same devs (well, some part of) already decided to create a new Bitcoin (that is, Bitcoin XT). I don't think they will have difficulty in finding an excuse once they are up to something...

And last (but not least), hasn't their last decision already shaken the Bitcoin economy?

Slark

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If something like bitcoin halving ever get cancelled and changed how exactly devs are gonna explain this?
Crucial matter like halving is precisely planned, designed and anticipated bye everyone. Changing it would shaken bitcoin economy and put it in very uncomfortable spot because if halving can be changed then maybe devs will next change total number of bitcoin?

deisik

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on September 26, 2015, 12:13:54 AM

Quote from: bajing on September 25, 2015, 09:40:37 PM

it's that true, i have waiting halving coming because i believe after halving bitcoin price will increase

Just don't hold your breath too much, see what happened with the LTC halving? Sweet fuckall. xD

Since its been and still tied to BTC, maybe that's why, and since BTC is well, BTC, maybe it really will have the believed effect but anyways, upward pressure might just mean +10% over 1 year, its not like the BTC price will double for miner to keep up.

What's happened to LTC and its halving? Did it fail and the outcome of halving was opposite to what had been expected? I don't keep an eye on this coin, just curious...

Always considered Litecoin as stillborn

deisik

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Quote from: johnyj on September 25, 2015, 07:55:24 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 25, 2015, 04:07:35 AM

Quote from: johnyj on September 24, 2015, 03:59:15 PM

Suppose that in future the coin supply changed to 1 bitcoin per block forever, then the yearly coin supply is less than 0.25% of the total coin supply, thus will not be able to trigger any observable inflation. But I guess by that time the fees from transactions are already higher than 1 bitcoin per block, so that it does not make a lot of sense from miner's perspective

There are too many variables that cumulatively and non-linearly affect an inflation rate (inflation in the sense of money depreciation, to avoid further confusion), and yet greater amount of variables in the case of an exchange rate. The effect of annual money supply can be easily overridden by other factors, e.g. expansion of adoption, turnover rate, amount of coins burned, etc...

In short, taken separately from other factors, the annual money supply doesn't tell us much if we want to correctly gauge future inflation

You can not prove something is good or bad by just talk, that's the reason bitcoin money supply scheme is setup on the other extreme of the spectrum to test how a totally different model will work in reality

If your premises are correct and your logic is flawless, then you inevitably come to the right conclusion. Just by talk, or, rather, consideration. That said, we have actually already tested that model in reality, for over a hundred years (I mean under stress)...

The gold standard has failed

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: bajing on September 25, 2015, 09:40:37 PM

it's that true, i have waiting halving coming because i believe after halving bitcoin price will increase

Just don't hold your breath too much, see what happened with the LTC halving? Sweet fuckall. xD

Since its been and still tied to BTC, maybe that's why, and since BTC is well, BTC, maybe it really will have the believed effect but anyways, upward pressure might just mean +10% over 1 year, its not like the BTC price will double for miner to keep up.

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it's that true, i have waiting halving coming because i believe after halving bitcoin price will increase

unholycactus

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I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the thread already as I didn't bother to read the 5 pages of non-sense.

But here's my point: If miners manipulate Bitcoin in a dishonest way, the value will plummet and miners with holdings in BTC will lose a ton of money. It would be absurd from a profit point of view.

Halving is a core feature of Bitcoin. If you can't get consensus on changing much smaller things like the block size limit, imagine what it will be like for the halving/bitcoin supply.

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Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 12:49:14 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

What?

Who has the most power over Bitcoin? Right, these are mining pools. Who is most interested in preserving the current block reward? The same mining pools...

wll if it havles, price *propably* doubles.. so they stay on the same ledger Wink

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Quote from: deisik on September 25, 2015, 04:07:35 AM

Quote from: johnyj on September 24, 2015, 03:59:15 PM

Suppose that in future the coin supply changed to 1 bitcoin per block forever, then the yearly coin supply is less than 0.25% of the total coin supply, thus will not be able to trigger any observable inflation. But I guess by that time the fees from transactions are already higher than 1 bitcoin per block, so that it does not make a lot of sense from miner's perspective

There are too many variables that cumulatively and non-linearly affect an inflation rate (inflation in the sense of money depreciation, to avoid further confusion), and yet greater amount of variables in the case of an exchange rate. The effect of annual money supply can be easily overridden by other factors, e.g. expansion of adoption, turnover rate, amount of coins burned, etc...

In short, taken separately from other factors, the annual money supply doesn't tell us much if we want to correctly gauge future inflation

You can not prove something is good or bad by just talk, that's the reason bitcoin money supply scheme is setup on the other extreme of the spectrum to test how a totally different model will work in reality

As I analyzed, a constant money supply model and a limited supply model works almost the same from long term point of view, but have very different psychology expectation. So select a limited supply model made its deflative promise very clear, it is better to be roughly right than precisely wrong

And bitcoin's soul is consensus, if there is a widely reached consensus that a constant money supply model is much superior for all of the participants, then the money supply scheme will be changed. Since over 99% of the people do not understand what kind of money supply model FED should use, I guess such a consensus will never be reached in bitcoin community

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Quote from: countryfree on September 25, 2015, 06:31:27 PM

We NEED a new Bitcoin halving. The sooner, the better. Miners are still creating more than one million BTC per year. Without any other halving, we would reach the 21M limit by 2020, and the BTC world is not ready yet for a limited money supply.

That's why OP was suggesting to remove it, basically, its the halving that cause the 21M limit. And when its reached, the block chain doesn't stop there... will still be miner reward.
To prevent inflation, the halving was introduced, but the 21M limit isint something that can be reached anytime soon, everything is working like a clockwork. Basically the whole thread is moot since no, its no, the halving won't be canceled and if it is, no, this means removing the 21M limit. You can't not halve and then reach 21M.

The limit is caused by the halving, not the other way around.

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We NEED a new Bitcoin halving. The sooner, the better. Miners are still creating more than one million BTC per year. Without any other halving, we would reach the 21M limit by 2020, and the BTC world is not ready yet for a limited money supply.

sana9821

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i doubt that it might be canceled as all the system would be kinda destroyed i doubt that someone would risk to destroy bitcoin only to delay its halving time

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