Bitcoin halving to be canceled? - page 26.

jaysabi

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Quote from: deisik on November 10, 2015, 04:22:06 PM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

Once must understand that halving is an essential part of the Bitcoin protocol, aimed at approximating the natural increase in scarcity, observed in other money systems, like gold (as opposed to currencies, like dollar, which can be printed ad infinitum)

The problem is that Bitcoin itself is not natural. As I have said elsewhere (and been attacked by assclowns of all stripes and denominations, lol), Bitcoin, in this aspect, is no different than any other fiat money out there (or currency, if you please), my point being that mimicking scarcity (or any other quality) of its counterparts such as gold doesn't endow it with the resilience and robustness due to their inherent value (entrenched deep in the minds and nature of people)...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Scarcity is part of what gives both gold and bitcoin value. The only reason anything has any value at all is that everyone believes it to be true. This is true of bitcoin, gold, and fiat. Confidence in the particular monetary system is what bestows value, and part of the confidence in bitcoin is the built in scarcity of a hard cap and halving block rewards along the way. If that confidence is undermined, then the value/utility of the monetary system is going to fall, and that's true of gold and fiat too.

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Quote from: deisik on November 10, 2015, 04:30:18 PM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 01:38:16 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on September 22, 2015, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:49:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

What?

Who has the most power over Bitcoin? Right, these are mining pools. Who is most interested in preserving the current block reward? The same mining pools...

Who gives a fuck what the pools do, it's what the miners do.

Mining pools act on behalf of the miners. Besides, do you understand that the miners will be the first to welcome the cancellation of halving?

No.

I've been mining since late CPU/early GPU days and still going strong. Been through the 50BTC->25BTC halving, when some of the same concerns were aired

If no, why not then give me half of your earnings?

Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

BTC50 or BTC25 or BTC12.5 or BTC6.25 or BTC3.125 or BTC1.5625 or BTC0.78125 or BTC0.390625 ...

Okay, we are well past the 50 BTC reward, but may I hope that you will make do equally well with the remaining numbers right now?

The problem will solve itself. The reward over time is only as low as many miners take part in the mining game. Lower the reward and many miners will switch off their unprofitable miners. Which means the remaining rewards will be split through the remaining miners, which means they will earn more.

Given that we have 100 times more miners than we would need then you can assume that if 99% of all miners were switched off then the remaining 1% would earn 100 times the earning they had before. Market will find it's way. And mining will always be profitable for those who can get their hands on cheap hardware.

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 01:38:16 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on September 22, 2015, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:49:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

What?

Who has the most power over Bitcoin? Right, these are mining pools. Who is most interested in preserving the current block reward? The same mining pools...

Who gives a fuck what the pools do, it's what the miners do.

Mining pools act on behalf of the miners. Besides, do you understand that the miners will be the first to welcome the cancellation of halving?

No.

I've been mining since late CPU/early GPU days and still going strong. Been through the 50BTC->25BTC halving, when some of the same concerns were aired

If no, why not then give me half of your earnings?

Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

BTC50 or BTC25 or BTC12.5 or BTC6.25 or BTC3.125 or BTC1.5625 or BTC0.78125 or BTC0.390625 ...

Okay, we are well past the 50 BTC reward, but may I hope that you will make do equally well with the remaining numbers right now?

NorrisK

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Halving should not be canceled because miners become unhappy with the rewards...

That is just plain stupid, like everything is about them. It only drives miners to become more efficient, as that will be the only way to keep up.

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on November 10, 2015, 03:21:23 PM

Once must understand that halving is an essential part of the Bitcoin protocol, aimed at approximating the natural increase in scarcity, observed in other money systems, like gold (as opposed to currencies, like dollar, which can be printed ad infinitum)

The problem is that Bitcoin itself is not natural. As I have said elsewhere (and been attacked by assclowns of all stripes and denominations, lol), Bitcoin, in this aspect, is no different than any other fiat money out there (or currency, if you please), my point being that mimicking scarcity (or any other quality) of its counterparts such as gold doesn't endow it with the resilience and robustness due to their inherent value (entrenched deep in the minds and nature of people)...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Nemo1024

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Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 01:38:16 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on September 22, 2015, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:49:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

What?

Who has the most power over Bitcoin? Right, these are mining pools. Who is most interested in preserving the current block reward? The same mining pools...

Who gives a fuck what the pools do, it's what the miners do.

Mining pools act on behalf of the miners. Besides, do you understand that the miners will be the first to welcome the cancellation of halving?

No.

I've been mining since late CPU/early GPU days and still going strong. Been through the 50BTC->25BTC halving, when some of the same concerns were aired.

Once must understand that halving is an essential part of the Bitcoin protocol, aimed at approximating the natural increase in scarcity, observed in other money systems, like gold (as opposed to currencies, like dollar, which can be printed ad infinitum). Besides, Bitcoin is not about miners, it's about the ecosystem. You need bitcoins, go and ask for your salary being paid in them, or buy them.

BTC50 or BTC25 or BTC12.5 or BTC6.25 or BTC3.125 or BTC1.5625 or BTC0.78125 or BTC0.390625 ...

It ultimately does not matter as the market will correct for that (unless external forces manipulate the price, like they do with gold or oil prices).

Cancellation of halving (and acceptance of that by the majority vote of the miners) is exactly what may stop me from mining and walking away from Bitcoin, as that would signal that Bitcoin failed.

deisik

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Quote from: tom555 on November 10, 2015, 11:54:17 AM

Nope, 259 days to 12.5 Bitcoin block

http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com

Still a long way to go. Expect higher volatility and wider price swings as we are nearing the day of reckoning

tom555

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Nope, 259 days to 12.5 Bitcoin block

http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com

deisik

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We are not there yet (though getting closer to the Bitcoin halving event horizon, lol), and it still remains to be seen how the odds will play out in the end, what events will unfold and what fold in, wtf...

bitcoinbettingtips

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The halving every 4 years is programmed in the protocol. It is widely accepted by the community. This will not be changed unless agreed by the community.

UnknownUsername

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Dude the halving will be happening.. wether you like it or not

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Quote from: eternalgloom on November 06, 2015, 12:57:20 PM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on November 04, 2015, 04:47:30 PM

Never happening unless Bitcoin gets hit by a 51% attack. I really doubt that the majority of full nodes will start consenting to blocks which don't follow the normal rules of the halving of the Bitcoin reward unless some kind of fork like Bitcoin-XT goes mainstream, which I doubt.

Looking at the current situation, I'd say chances are slim that we'll see something like Bitcoin-XT take off.
Plus reward halving is beneficial for miner since it creates hype and drives the prices up, in theory at least

I still hope that an uncontroversial developer manages to release a fork that has no problems connected to like a hearn as developer or so. I surely would support that since we already see problems start with 1MB blocks. We saw that when the bitcoin price rallied and crashed. Blocks were full with legit transactions and confirmation times went up.

bitcoinbettingtips

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Quote from: Amph on November 06, 2015, 03:04:27 AM

Quote from: crazyivan on November 05, 2015, 02:35:32 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:11:24 AM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

What are you talking about? Huh

?? Bitcoin halving isn't an option cause BTC s not controlled by a group, govt or individual. That s one of the major advantages of this beautiful currency. So yes, halving WILL take place.

he think that miners can fork bitcoin core, seeing how they have the power, and cancel the halving maybe, but they will end up mining on another fokr, because no merchant will accept their scam chain

Miners can create and maintain as many coins as possible, but we will not use it. It is a scam coin, like thousands out there.

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Quote from: eternalgloom on November 06, 2015, 12:57:20 PM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on November 04, 2015, 04:47:30 PM

Never happening unless Bitcoin gets hit by a 51% attack. I really doubt that the majority of full nodes will start consenting to blocks which don't follow the normal rules of the halving of the Bitcoin reward unless some kind of fork like Bitcoin-XT goes mainstream, which I doubt.

Looking at the current situation, I'd say chances are slim that we'll see something like Bitcoin-XT take off.
Plus reward halving is beneficial for miner since it creates hype and drives the prices up, in theory at least

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, though, they are not

eternalgloom

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on November 04, 2015, 04:47:30 PM

Never happening unless Bitcoin gets hit by a 51% attack. I really doubt that the majority of full nodes will start consenting to blocks which don't follow the normal rules of the halving of the Bitcoin reward unless some kind of fork like Bitcoin-XT goes mainstream, which I doubt.

Looking at the current situation, I'd say chances are slim that we'll see something like Bitcoin-XT take off.
Plus reward halving is beneficial for miner since it creates hype and drives the prices up, in theory at least

Amph

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Quote from: crazyivan on November 05, 2015, 02:35:32 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:11:24 AM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

What are you talking about? Huh

?? Bitcoin halving isn't an option cause BTC s not controlled by a group, govt or individual. That s one of the major advantages of this beautiful currency. So yes, halving WILL take place.

he think that miners can fork bitcoin core, seeing how they have the power, and cancel the halving maybe, but they will end up mining on another fokr, because no merchant will accept their scam chain

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Quote from: deisik on November 05, 2015, 01:23:10 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 04, 2015, 04:37:09 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 04, 2015, 04:23:41 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 03, 2015, 04:20:16 PM

Why? The rewards for miners are way way too high. Nowadays the networks hashpower is 100 times higher then it would be needed. The consequences of this are that each and every transactions costs electricity of the size 1.75 average US-households use each day. Bigger transactions cost even more.

How do you know that? Or, to put it in a different perspective, the rewards (taken cumulatively) are what the market sets them to be. If Bitcoin was cheaper, less miners would be interested in mining...

That is from a study published some weeks, or months ago.

And so what? Does it give more credibility to your words? Internet is full of garbage. Mining being a huge energy waster (even if so) is of no relevance to it being over or undervalued. Market doesn't set the reward figure, but it does set (in a sense) a total amount of coins that miners get for mining (i.e. their revenue)...

But it is relevant for those who demand we would need to keep 1MB blocks so that the fees for transactions rise and the miners get a higher pay. There simply is no need for a higher pay. There is a need for dropping outdated hardware only. When we can't manipulate the bitcoin price only because we want to adjust the miner fee then the amount of coins they get is the only way to adjust the total value they get.

Nothing more i said.

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Quote from: deisik on November 05, 2015, 01:06:41 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 04, 2015, 04:24:07 PM

I think you make it too complicated. Yes, the reward is some kind of inflation maybe but in fact it isn't. The price ONLY get's established on the exchanges and markets. Which means only what all users believe bitcoin should be worth will be what bitcoin will be worth. And miner rewards and other things seems to have no impact on that.

I don't see how it can be too complicated. When miners sell their stash of coins, they are just like any other Bitcoin sellers, and the effect they have on the price is in no way different than it would be if someone else had sold the same coins. The only difference is that they sell newly minted coins. The price changing effect is absolutely the same. If what you say were true, it would mean that the bitcoins that miners produce and sell somehow avoid affecting the price of Bitcoin...

In short, you shouldn't consider the miner's reward in isolation, taken per se, but you should look at the supply of new coins which enters the market and where the reward plays a secondary role as a factor in quantifying the amount of this supply

The reward for miners is coming from the amount of bitcoins they receive and the value the bitcoins have. It is not possible for us to manipulate the value of bitcoins we give to miners, so that we might lower or raise their reward. The only way to make mining more or less lucrative would be to lower or raise the amount of bitcoins they receive. That's why i said we don't have much influence on the reward for miners. Of course they are normal player in the markets.

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Quote from: deisik on September 22, 2015, 11:11:24 AM

There was much hype about the Fed raising interest rates in 2015, but we are still there, at the lowest possible level (wtf, it is even no longer the lowest possible limit). Bitcoin halving in July, 2016, is talked about as much, but will it really happen?

I ain't sure

What are you talking about? Huh

?? Bitcoin halving isn't an option cause BTC s not controlled by a group, govt or individual. That s one of the major advantages of this beautiful currency. So yes, halving WILL take place.

deisik

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Quote from: SebastianJu on November 04, 2015, 04:37:09 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 04, 2015, 04:23:41 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 03, 2015, 04:20:16 PM

Why? The rewards for miners are way way too high. Nowadays the networks hashpower is 100 times higher then it would be needed. The consequences of this are that each and every transactions costs electricity of the size 1.75 average US-households use each day. Bigger transactions cost even more.

How do you know that? Or, to put it in a different perspective, the rewards (taken cumulatively) are what the market sets them to be. If Bitcoin was cheaper, less miners would be interested in mining...

That is from a study published some weeks, or months ago.

And so what? Does it give more credibility to your words? Internet is full of garbage. Mining being a huge energy waster (even if so) is of no relevance to it being over or undervalued. Market doesn't set the reward figure, but it does set (in a sense) a total amount of coins that miners get for mining (i.e. their revenue)...

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