Topic: Bitcoin is Dead - page 10. (Read 7684 times)

Which one exactly? As far as I know, the US is the most free country. If you want Nazi type countries, go to Europe, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, etc, all those are way more Nazi than the US ever was.

They even spy their Internet users looking at supposed extremist websites, this is nothing more than political censorship if you think about it.

At least the US does not hide the fact when they are discovered and you would amaze how worst it is in other places.

But the point is that its not the government that im afraid with bitcoins, its banks.

If banks where controlling bitcoin, they would say who can use them and who can´t, and sending bitcoins, to one place to another would a % of the amount, not to mention micropayments would be impossible like they are today on the Internet. Its impossible to send 1 dollar cent to one part of the world to another.

I don't know where you live, but I bet you see rainbows and unicorns on a daily basis, don't ya?

Every. Last. Government.

That's how many spy on their own people. Some are just better at hiding it.

Like I said, you must live in the U.S.
 Not all countries hate their government, and not all governments are "Nazi Germany" like the U.S. is.

Ah gosh, Im so surprised when people think some people want Bitcoins because they are unregulated just because they want to do something illegal.

Let me tell you something, and I know anyone that traveled enough around the world knows this.

In the US, EU, and other countries, you go to a bank branch, with 0$ or 50$ and have your credit card and bank account ready to go. Yes, its all pre-filled.

This is absolutely NOT true in the rest of the world. In most places, minimum to open a bank account is anywhere between 3,000$ and 10,000$ fixed, which you need not only to open but maintain. And no credit cards there.

You see the problem? There is a huge population in this planet that is online and cannot access regular payment systems. This is the only TRUE benefit of bitcoins in terms of not being regulated or controlled. That anyone was able to get them. (was, since this is not true anymore, you can´t mine them anymore....)

You will not believe how many people want to buy something online but can´t, because PayPal is not in their country, or they have not CC or bank account, which of course PayPal requires as well.

You will not believe how many people want access to be able to pay, but can´t.

Bitcoin was a supposed to be a solution to them. Right now, its not anymore, as you need to buy them somewhere, and we are again in the same dilemma, buy them with some standard payment method.

Also, another huge benefit of Bitcoins was that merchants had a way safe to receive money without being scammed, this means chargebacks.

But there is no point for merchants if the consumers owning Bitcoins are null. And they are going to be null, if they cannot get them with their computers.

Now, I don´t care about government intervention, but do you fail to realize that then we don´t actually need Bitcoins at all? If I want something regulated, I will use the real thing like PayPal.

The only reasons I like Bitcoins, is because Bitcoin cannot shut you down. Like PayPal could if they decide this, right or wrong, its possible for the banking systems to shut down any websites payment systems right now. There are only 2 major credit card brands and PayPal is more or less a monopoly as well today.

Bitcoins is supposed to be in the hands of no specific company, so nobody is supposed to impose rules on you.

If you're allowing the banks/government to monitor your purchases of BTC so they can track who has them and where they go just so you can make a few bucks, you're in service to the government. It's also a waste of a perfectly good P2P, decentralized, pseudonymous currency.

I don't care if a bitcoin is worth 1 cent if govt/banks keep their greasy mitts off of it.

You just did.

Well, you must live in the U.S. then.
 But, where I live, I take the money and live freely, not being a servant to anyone... so, your statement dosent make much sense...

I wish I could +1 your post.

A couple of things.

First of all, ASIC's are shipping out. Butterfly Labs is irrelevant because they made themselves irrelevant. Avalon and others have already shipped.

Secondly, the Winklevoss twins aren't irrelevant to this discussion. If BTC trading takes off on NASDAQ it still becomes unprofitable to keep BTC in so few wallets. Without the utility of Bitcoin, there is no value in Bitcoin. It's that simple. If you don't think so, look at fiat currencies. Virtually worthless on their own, but because each fiat currency is legal tender in it's region of dominance (in other words, it has utility) it has value.

Finally, if BTC gets to be like regular currency (as seems to be the suggestion in BitCoin Magazine in this article), then yes, it will be useless to those who saw it as a way to move away from prying eyes. Our financial affairs are our own. The government has no business in them. This will make the issue of ASICs even more irrelevant if this idea flourishes.

Better a free pauper than a rich servant. YMMV.

Well honestly, would you rather :

 1. Sell your BTC for 5X, 6X or more its current value even though the gov. gets involved and it gets on exchange and banks start getting a hand in it.
 2. Your BTC remains the same value, maybe dips more and more, but governments never get involved, nor banks.


 I think most of us would choose to cash out, money always wins in the end.

Great. A P2P currency with your name and info attached to every coin. That's exactly why I got into Bitcoin: so that the banking/finance/govt system could continue to track us in our financial affairs.

Bitcoiners are killing Bitcoin.

I was aware of that already and that has nothing to do with what im posting.

If the ones producing bitcoins, (mining) are only ones which you can count with one hand, its loses trust among non bitcoin users, and it loses it romance among geeks that wanted to produce their own.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/bringing-bitcoin-to-the-mainstream/?_r=0

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/02/investing/winklevoss-bitcoin-etf/

http://rt.com/business/winklevoss-twins-bitcoin-ipo-520/

 etc....

 Gotta do your research

To late. ASIC manufacturers are a single monopoly.

And since mining bitcoins with standard equipment is useless, Bitcoin is now more like a specialized geek coin, not an Internet coin that everyone can generate or use.

All this articles that are gathered to newbies explaining how you can generate bitcoins with your computers, should start to rewrite themselves because its not true anymore.

And its quite ironic, because Bitcoin is supposed to be an Internet currency that works in computers, but does not need computers. Not at least the ones you use for the Internet.

This is the only reason why some people are going to LiteCoin, but Litecoin is weaker than Bitcoin and ASIC will come to them as well, because they are both based on the same principle which is completely flawed.

Organizations that where supposed to protect bitcoin from this, are actually behind mining themselves as fast and hard as they can.

On one part they promote the use of bitcoin for paying and selling, to increase online business with bitcoins, but behind doors, they hold as many as they can.

Not true, not a single ASIC vendor is shipping.

Do you mean BT Labs? They still did not shipped a single unit sold this year 2013.

And most people buying this devices are suckers, that forget something. By the time they get their devices, all of the other people that pre ordered before you, probably including last year, will hook up their device first.

This means the hashing difficulty will be 100 times or more harder when you hook yours. So that device you though would make you 10 bitcoins a month, will make you 1 a year by the time you receive it and put it online.

Not to mention all this huge guys that had access to thousands of ASIC chips before you go. Once they start to go up online, your ASIC device, regardless of how strong or big it is, will generate absolutely nothing.

And GPU mining? Will that is a laugh right now, the minute just maybe a very small % of ASIC go online, imagine when most that where sold get online...

If all of them where sold at the same time, this would have leveled fields. Why?

Because that person buying 1000 of this devices, would still not outpower all those 10,000 customers buying 1 device, which in total are still more. You get the point?

But this is not true. The companies selling this ASIC devices, are mining with them until they make no profit anymore, (Avalon) then they put theirs to sale. Others say they have limited supply but ship devices to media magazines and Internet reporters all over the Internet to increase their presales. Other ones says they are out of stock but sell behind doors 1000 devices to a specific miner of company.

All chips come exactly from the same place? Don´t you see the problem here? They are not being delivered to the consumer. Its the biggest corruption ever made, they want the cakes share first, and what they don´t realize, is that they are destroying themselves at the same time, as Bitcoin is losing value.

If Bitcoin loses its decentralized mining system, its dead. At least now. Maybe in 20 years when everyone uses it like they use PayPal, centralized mining or transaction would work, but right now? No. Bitcoin is to new, and once most bitcoins or mining are in a few hands, new users will completely feel and smell a scam. Its all about trust. Bitcoin without trust is dead.

And the ASIC market should showed that you cannot trust this ASIC vendors, they all come from the same hand and are benefiting their friends or heavy buyers first vs the normal and standard consumer.

Absolutely all 3 ASIC vendors right now are a complete scam. They used their customers money from pre-orders to fund their own ASIC mining operations.

let us pray together to bring bitcoin back to life NYC;)

They are in the process of getting BTC on the stock market, google Bitcoin in the news section. That will give it a boost. You can make a really long statement why you think its dead but you have to look at all resources first, if BTC gets on Nasdaq, that was a lot of writing for nothing.

My point is that the systems would benefit from this:

100,000 miners
100 huge miners
2 mega huge miners
1 million users miners that come and go.

And so.

VS:

3 Mega Huge Corporations miners

10 million user that mine for 1 hour and go away for ever.

You see the problem here?

The 3 Mega Huge ones, would be 3 single points of failure. When they lose power, all transactions would be hurt, when they go offline, suddenly the difficulty of mining would drop at exponential rates. When they have problems, everyone else would. They would control and be God over bitcoin, including the price as they would control most of the mining.


The system does not promote at all being decentralized, this means one user in Russia, one in New York, one in Sydney, etc.

This is what makes the whole network robust and fault tolerant.

ASIC mining will displace this, because the standard consumers cannot get this devices. By the time the usual Joe can get a small ASCI miner, it will be to late, his own device will be a piece of crap that will generate nothing and as opposed to normal computers or servers, which can be shifted to other loads, miners can´t.

Why do we need an Internet currency that does not rely on Internet computers? Your computer, that server in a datacenter, that tablet, all of them are useless for bitcoin production and network grow. They give nothing to the Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is going to special hardware, not because Bitcoin wanted, because its the logic step to do. Because Bitcoin itself is flawed to the point it does not take RAM into account, or location or bandwidth or anything what actually makes the Internet what is is.

We, the user.

I kind of have to agree with you on that, ASIC miners will eventually completely out-perform Joe Miner just doing it for whatever reason (personally I'd like to make some BTC but can't because my rig would explode). It won't kill BTC, and it certainly won't centralize it. It's worth is in its utility and if it's holed up in only 2-3 wallets, it has no utility at all thus no worth. It's in everyone's best interests to use BTC more and more, otherwise the scenario you speak of will happen (with few wallets holding most of the coin). On the other hand, having many competing cryptocurrencies would also help keep BTC from becoming irrelevant.