Topic: Bitcoin is Dead - page 9. (Read 7742 times)

I will say that most of this is over my head but I know what happens to people when you mess with their money, imagine what happens to people when they mess with a countries money.

Come on people it is not that hard to figure out what is going on here.

Why would they want to offer it as ETF if it was a killer investment?  Hint: They invested a while ago, now they wants ta git out.  But gracefully.
IRS you ask?  If they made money, they owe, they owe.
Edit: Bloomberg article you'll enjoy:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-02/winklevoss-twins-make-best-case-against-bitcoin-fund.html

Excerpt:
"But the Winklevoss ETF's own filing makes the best arguments against treating Bitcoin as an investment asset.
1. "It may be illegal now, or in the future, to acquire, own, hold, sell or use Bitcoins in one or more countries, and ownership of, holding or trading in Shares may also be considered illegal and subject to sanction."

How would they lose anything to the IRS buy selling to mtgox or coinbase, or any other outlets? They just bought some $20 million in BTC, 1% of all BTC's, why would they want to sell right away?
 I didnt know my statement was an argument..... lol

You're missing OP's point:  ASICS don't bring uncertainty, the outcome is *certain.*  If you had a money press that prints real money, why would you sell it?  
Edit: ASICs are, or are claimed to be, these printing presses.  If they make more bitcoins than you pay for them & the juice to run them -- a no-brainer win unless... THE VALUE OF BITCOINS GOES DOWN.  That's the only sound reason to sell the printing press   And they're being made.  And sold.

The current drop is Bitcoin price is probably due to the uncertainty that ASIC miners are creating not the actual ASIC miners themselves. People aren't sure what's going to happen - (especially the GPU Bitcoin miners) so they are likely selling pushing the price down. Once the adjustment period is over, price will likely rebound.

And it's getting on nasdaq because ... a couple of wales can't cash out of bitcoin any other way without losing $$$ to the IRS & crashing MtGox in the process.  Nice argument

Well here lies the biggest problem. Would you sell something for 10 million? If you can produce 10000 million with it and have the monopoly over production?

What makes you think this factories or produces will not just hold on purpose production? They will. It happen with diamonds, and its happening with Bitcoin.

Bitcoins will become the diamonds of e-currency, only a few big producers and some others in the delivery chain.

Its amazing how much trust some of you have, while GPU miners are disconnecting themselves every day, and they yet are able to receive even one single ASIC unit, while some others have thousand of them and are mining by the minute bitcoins.

When exactly do you think it will be right to mine with ASIC? Next year? In 3 years? I don´t see a single market left for individual miners in the next months from now. Mining is already a novelty.....

And that is very sad, because as opposed to real mining, you where supposed to be able to use your spare computing devices to grow that thing called Bitcoin.

The market prices going down will just show how right im on this as time goes on. Unless we see a dramatic shift like a change in the protocol, or different manufacturers of ASIC actually delivering on time.

Call it romance then instead of novelty. There is a reason why you, I and allot of other people spend so much time in a digital currency. Because they feel they are part of it, and help it grow.

Once you are relegated to never ever in your life be able to produce even one single coin, you feel no part in creating it.

Your must be bad a math, because what you posted is actually pure novelty. Those USB sticks where started to be sold once they generated less in one year what they even cost to purchase.

Would you spend 1000$ to make 10$ a year?

There are tons of ways better to make an investment, and buying ASIC devices right now is a huge bad deal. Unless you buy 10,000$ or 100,000$ in ASIC devices, and plan to hook them as soon as next month.

By the time those Jalapenos hit the main stream market, they will generate barely nothing at all. Their users will never pay them off, ever. You see? The company knows this, this is why they are selling them.

Also, you all fail to see, that as far as I know, Bitcoin belongs to China now.

Don´t you think there aren´t people with money in China? Not to mention people that can get chinese chips faster than you or I will ever get. If they are the only ones in the world capable of producing the chips that produce the globals Internet currency, then we have a problem. Its far from a global e-currency, if one single part of the world has a huge market advantage over the rest.

You could say the rest about standard computers right? Well no. Because when Bitcoins appeared the whole world had computers already, and the market is stable. ASIC are new, and are just hitting the market, so they will be steadily controlled, in particular because they only fulfill one purpose, make Bitcoins.

Please notice that has nothing to do with China or Chinese, which have the right to produce bitcoins like everyone else. But its like saying the Federal bank or the machine that prints money is in China.

The problem is with Bitcoins. The protocol is flawed. Standard computing fails. And if we cannot use standard computing to produce a currency which is supposed to be used in standard computing then "Houston, we have a problem."

You do not buy or trade with ASIC devices either right?

it all depends on how avalon and BFL chips do. If Avalon or BFL can be the "AMD" of asics then there's  competitive force for white-box asic builders to build profitable miners. Else they won't sell any. And there will be pressure for Avalon and BFL to produce affordable chips. Right now there IS NO COMPETITION only promises. There's a handful of pre-orders being delivered, and Asicminer has the only production devices, so all the GPU miners are at a 50x disadvantage. When there's 3 companies competing to make the cheapest chips and producing real products, there will be incentive to produce profitable miners. Else nobody would buy them, and the chip makers would go bust. Look at Intel before AMD. Look at Nvidia before ATI/AMD. AT&T before the rest of them. Prices came down drastically with competition..

Maybe not ones that make 100% return in 90 days, maybe more like 10-15% return over the year, accounting for difficulty increases. That sure is better than 3% in a CD.

You're missing the point. Mining - profit = dead coin. Erupter's are not going to pay for sunk cost. That is novelty as your post suggests should be killed.

You make good points but as I see things from other POV's and I can't agree with you at all.

Have you taken a look at BTC on the exchange? I can go look at a post a month ago stating exactly what is happening today. Mining is not the problem here its greed.

ASICminer alone has not only check-mated normal miners, but also other ASIC users before they even get out of the gate.  It will just take a little while for people to realize.  An excellent point the OP had about the chinese chips.  ASICminer has gotten plenty of equipment while BFL and Avalon have had shortages.  Why?  Most likely because of ASICminers' oversees connection.  Oh well, Bitcoins are still great with or without the mining aspect.

2cents

USD is being regulated out of reach for bitcoins. The new rules will make exchanges less reliable to exchange your bitcoins for USD cash transactions. MtxGox is experiencing this right now. Many other exchange services are battling this as we speak.

That was another nail in the coffin for bitcoin.

Who are they? Well if you wish to place your tinfoil hats on gentlemen, the they is the same people that kill dictators that wish to bring in gold and silver as a currency.

If you can see the link there then you will understand the attacks on bitcoin are not coincidental and can be expected. They you will understand how asics have been allowed to come to the forefront to inflate bitcoin and allow it to destroy it self.

The They have been at this for quite a while and know how to protect their interests.

They can't kill a central authority so they have began to kill the Idea.

No one said you did.

I live no where near the E.U.

I don't hate my government, I hate what it's become. I hate what a minority of people and corporate interests are making it, and I hate that not enough people care to see it changed. I don't hate my government, but I surely do not trust it (nor any others, especially any EU countries).

Really? I'm sorry, but you've got it wrong.

US dudes hate their government so much. Why the hell do you happily run to vote for it every 4 years?

I have lived in over a dozen countries, and visited many more.

 The U.S. is one of the least free countries in the world. But, what do I know, it comes from experience, and actually being outside the U.S. looking in.

It may be not be the best interests, you are right.

But greed will bring bitcoins down. The human nature of greed.

They are disrupting the bitcoin ecosystem, even if they don´t know about.

I can only see bitcoin prices dropping.

Also, you forget one huge point. Once bitcoins can´t be mined anymore, someone is supposed to process the transactions of the network.

And guess who is going to be in the best position to do it?

The huge ASIC miners. So the whole transaction systems will be so centralized that they could be fixing a % for faster processing.

Right now, ASIC devices can´t do anything but mine. I don´t know if in the future they can be modified to do something else, but the point still holds true.

Its not going to be a global peer to peer system anymore.

That's what is the big consideration should be. ASIC miners are going to put themselves out of business eventually as the amount of bitcoins is fixed, so once they are all circulating, nothing left to mine. again, though, if banks do that they'll effectively kill off Bitcoin and lose money themselves. It's not in their best interests to mess with BTC in any way.