Topic: Bitcoin Jesus ministry not to preach from American soil - page 2. (Read 6662 times)

Enough said. And in response, a great Satoshi quote:


To everyone building the "fantasy agenda", avoid this distractions and use incidents like these for motivation to continue building the dream. It is happening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_gNRkh7zA

Bitcoin is here, the agenda people are pushing is still in the same place.  The usefulness has to do with the technology and has nothing to do with the fantasy agenda.  The part about autonomous companies running off the Blockchain is also a fantasy.  While it is true that some things can be automated off the blockchain and those things are very useful, a company what provides goods and services is still made up of people and those people perform those services in some jurisdiction and they are subject to laws in that jurisdiction.  This hand-waiving "automated companies" claim is part of the misinformation by the agenda pushers.  these technologies are very useful on their own and attaching them to some unrealistic agenda hurts their adoption.

As for Crazy loaf, anyone who doesn't agree with some stupid fantasy agenda is a "government troll"  and anyone who disagrees is "vomiting."  It is funny how Trace Mayer and Erik Vorhees have used the exact same "vomiting" line when I challenge their nonsense. 

You are presenting a false dichotomy. There are arguments to be had regarding levels of degree of corruption in societies and other means to enforce and regulate society that don't rely on either voluntary human good will or regulators with threats of violence.

Bitcoin is a case in point as it offers regulations and security within the blockchain based upon a combination of game theory , appealing to peoples self interest and greed, relying on cryptographic trap doors, and having a decentralized peer system to verify transactions. In this case it doesn't rely upon people voluntarily complying out of kindness as the protocol insures everyone complies regardless of intentions.

I understand this currently has limited applications but developers are already working on self regulating contracts based upon ricardian contracts using multisig trust less escrow and  oracles to offer regulation which aren't as corruptible and inefficient as traditional legal systems.

You may think we are idealistic but keep in mind Bitcoin was never supposed to work and make it thus far, and any competent engineer scoffed at the idea when it was first proposed because how ludicrous it was.... and now we are here.


There are bigger things at stake than your investment treating Bitcoin as some paypal alternative stock speculation. There are ethical and moral considerations to ponder.

So this is what I propose: We won't tell you how to use bitcoin and you allow us to peacefully carry out this experiment to fruition.

Yes, some of these people are damaging my investment and I don't like them.  I think many more people are starting to see through their nonsense so maybe my messages will do some good.  Of course when you start arguments with people who live in an echo chamber it often does not turn out well. 

Corruption can never be eliminated under any system.   Regulators can also never be eliminated because people don't want them to be eliminated.  People often won't do things voluntarily so it is waste of time trying to come up with a system based on voluntary compliance.   

You own a house outside of the US? Thats very unusual, I've never heard of someone being refused entry due to lack of outside ties when they own a house abroad. You should talk to a lawyer.

Well, as long as they plaster their baggage with Canadian flags.....

But it feels like you have a personal vendetta against certain community people. Instead of attacking others, you could take a different approach such as promoting the people you have trust in, people that have viewpoints and/or morals that align with your way of thinking. That would definitely be a much more positive way and you would gain friends instead of turning people off. You have the same negative vibrations in comments on other websites too. So this really isnt just about Roger. Its almost like you have become or are becoming what you most despise. And Im sure thats not you at all. Someplace maybe you were wronged, I dont know, but just sit back and think about the message you are trying to portray and whatever it is you are typing, ask yourself... will this be constructive? does this jive with you want to happen? What is it that you want to happen? Maybe thats a better question and then look at which ways, or which commenting method will help you achieve you goal faster. Anger and hate or promoting people that you side with. Thats just my 2c. I think generally we are all good people and instead of this little bickering we could just, you know, why cant we all just get along?

Decent countries don't do that, though, because they appreciate business travel or tourists. Of course, if a country is so powerful, rich and arrogant that they can treat everyone like shit, this could happen.

It's funny though, that this always happens to people going to the US, hardly ever are Americans treated like that when they travel to Europe, for instance.

No fingerprinting, no storing of personal data for 75 years, no treatment like a heap of dung....

Btw Roger says he is paying US taxes, so he has a fucking right to enter!

I also see a lot of "professionals" pulling ponzi operations and scamming people out of millions who actively promote regulation and get endorsed by organizations like the Bitcoin Foundation.

You are representing a distorted view of history right now as there are psychopaths, thieves, and con men in all walks of life and backgrounds.

You live in a fantasy world where "certified" corruption and "regulated" crime is acceptable and small time criminals aren't. I do not make such distinctions and actively attack either regardless of their claimed philosophical beliefs. Sociopaths and Con-men are attracted to power like moths to a flame and thus gravitate to positions of authority you seek to impose on the rest of us through voted in institutions of violence. I understand your intentions may be well placed but it is naive to believe that corruption can be eliminated from states or regulators if we just try a little harder or vote the right person in next time.

I run my own web sites and do my own thing.  What I hate is when I try to explain Bitcoin to someone and they start bringing up all the nut-job stuff.  It is embarrassing to try to explain away claims such as Bitcoin will end wars when the clown claiming it is on the agenda of a Bitcoin conference.  The comic relief of some of the stupid things you see from these people keeps me going.  Actually I bought Bitcoin.me from that Popescu clown via a broker.  A transaction that normally takes 2-3 days took 2-3 months.   

My first day in Bitcoin was reading a thread of how everyone involved in Bitcoin should be on WoW because that is the only thing that means anything.  Then I was referred to Erik Vorhees description of BTC.  Then I saw the video of the Bitfloor guy in his skull cap explaining how he lost everyone's funds.  I tried buying Bitcoin and I found a guy who used my bank but I found out he was involved in MyBitcoin (I tried to buy bitcoinme.com from the same guy and he wanted $5 million).  I ordered mining equipment from that caplepair guy.  Then people started threatening him and posting pictures of his family when he didn't deliver and I alerted the police up where he lives.  Then you have Theymos, a guy who has the emergency alert key, promoting a fake bank using the Bitcoin Foundation logo.  No wonder Satoshi dropped out.

LOL..... Exactly, keep Bitcoin weird. Don't nuetuer it and turn it into a competing paypal. Embrace diversity. Welcome choice. We don't need another inflationary currency or form of fiat as there are already many of those options available.

Awww c'mon embrace the diversity, some real characters involved in BTC, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sgg2MvAz8I and Mr Ipad Chain

We are all part of bitcoin. I understand it is discomforting for you to acknowledge their contributions to our ecosystem. They do not solely represent Bitcoin and neither does the Bitcoin Foundation. This is a open source collaborative effort where everyone has an equal opportunity to contribute or for media exposure. You just seem bitter that they get more attention than you think they deserve. You have just as much opportunity as them to get attention.

Rather than pout, why don't you take a more positive approach to promoting your agenda and join organizations like the Bitcoin Foundation?

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

You are misrepresenting my views as I have repeatedly stated that Bitcoin is for everyone and not just the "anarcho-nut job market ". We can all interact and benefit from the blockchain together.



I am fine with states , governments and foundations creating regulation. You seemed to be confused with the Anarchist position and our ethics. If people want to use a regulated bitcoin , than I encourage them to do so.... as long as they do not use violence to force me to agree with their policies.


You seem to be under the impression that the cypher punks represented some idealist punk teens when it consisted of older cryptologists, mathematicians, and programmers. There is nothing to outgrow as many come into anarchist ideals from a lifetime of research and philosophical reflection. Do a bit of research before misrepresenting our history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitfield_Diffie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Hellman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28activist%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_C._May
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hughes_%28cypherpunk%29

No, you will be "pushed out" as more reasonable people get involved.   Not "pushed out" in the sense that you can't use it but pushed out by obscurity so that, for instance, the important Bitcoin conferences won't be dominated by nut jobs and agenda-pushers.  You are mistaken that the wing nuts will be the ones who ensure Bitcoin will prosper.  That may have been true early on but now it has turned into a detriment because they scare normal people away and make Bitcoin weaker.  Those people routinely overestimate the importance they have and the size of their market which is why they are the main source of pro-Bitcoin misinformation.  The anarcho-nut job market is not large enough to support companies like Coinbase, Circle, BitPay, and the many new companies that want to get involved.

The same think happened in the early days of the Internet you had people who insisted there would not be any ads on the Internet because it was for research.  Others claimed the Internet would be free from regulation, etc.  They thought that because they were the early pioneers that they would control things forever.  Remember when they all got together to turn the web pages black in response to promised censorship laws?  Not only did the people in power not care, the whole protest with black web pages had to be explained to them.  The same thing is playing out in Bitcoin.  The wing nuts are on the road to obscurity but they are doing damage at the moment.  You may think that once people do a Bitcoin transaction that they will be walking around with Ayn Rand books under their arm but I don't see that happening.

As far as being grateful to the early people, thanks for your effort and I hop you made money in the early days because you are on the road to nowhere.  Of course most will outgrow the nonsense and turn into normal people.  there is a commercial that runs on the 90's Sirius channel "You used to Rage Against the machine ... and now you rage against the washing machine" and they have someone yelling at a broken washing machine.   But Bitcoin is decentralized so I owe the early adopters nothing and they don't owe me anything either for promoting adoption or getting that mining ruling from FinCEN.

Free speech should mean free speech.

This is probably what the anti-Franco side bars sounded like during Spanish Civil War

Bitcoin is an open source protocol which is open for anyone to interact with. You cannot push us out. Crypto-anarchists and cypherpunks gave birth to this technology and we will not be intimidated to leave or ignore the Raison d'être for bitcoin by coercive statists. You are free to use this technology along with us despite your disappointing philosophical and ethical beliefs. The Bitcoin ecosystem is a big tent and is open for everyone to benefit.

You disparage our ideology and principles but in reality should be grateful to the "fanatics" as we are the ones that will insure Bitcoin will survive and prosper. We aren't looking to scam anyone or looking for a quick buck but are in it for the long haul and will continue to support bitcoin as long as it stays true to its foundational principles.