Topic: Bitcoin Jesus ministry not to preach from American soil - page 4. (Read 6662 times)
@MemoryDealers Welcome to the Party
Sorry I'm late to the party.
I have a few facts I would like to correct. Make what you will of it.
1. I did NOT renounce my citizenship for tax reasons. I haven't lived in the USA for 9 years, but I've paid about $1M USD each year in US taxes for the last 10+ years, and will continue to pay a similar amount for as long as I continue to do business in the USA. (People like Help.org / Milly Bitcoin can go to hell for claiming I haven't paid my fair share)
2. My visa is being denied because the embassy workers are claiming that I haven't sufficiently proved my ties to a country outside the USA that would motivate me to leave the US at the end of my trip. They told me this verbally and in writing.
Actual rejection letter:
3. They told me verbally that my visa denial has nothing to do with my criminal record from over a decade ago.
4. While claiming I hadn't sufficiently shown proof of my ties outside the USA, they were refusing to even look at the proof I had brought. (9 years worth of ties to Japan) They wouldn't even let me slide the documentation through the slot in the interview window!
5. Free Talk Live was nice enough to let me tell more of my side of the story recently: https://soundcloud.com/freetalklive/free-talk-live-interviews-roger-ver-aka-bitcoin-jesus
6. I shouldn't have stored fireworks in the apartment without the owner's permission, and I shouldn't have sent them through the mail, but I was 19 or 20 years old at the time of my arrest, and young people tend to do immature things. I don't think sending me to federal prison was the right response. At some point I will do a longer write up of all the shenanigans played by law enforcement with my case.
7. The internet was a very different place at that time. I was selling the fireworks on ebay in their guns and ammo section along side all sorts of ammunition and assault rifles.
8. I never stored 50lbs worth in an apartment. 50lbs was the total amount that I purchased over a 1 or 2 year period while I was selling the product. Only some fraction of that was ever in the apartment at one time. That included all the packaging materials. Each one contained about 1 gram of explosive, and I purchased about 2000 pcs total, so the total sold over the time period was about 2KG and only a fraction of that was ever in the apartment at one time.
9. Milly Bitcoin doesn't even bother to read his own links. I was the only person in the entire world to be sent to jail for selling these without a permit. The manufacturer sold more than 1,000,000 units and was simply ordered to stop. Cabelas.com sold the exact same product, and they had no permit. They were simply ordered to stop. The company I bought mine from, had no permit and were simply ordered to stop.
10. I'm not perfect, and have never claimed to be. There is no such thing as a Bitcoin Jesus. I've made plenty of mistakes with my Bitcoin related work. I'm just doing the best I can.
11. I'm not opposed to rules, or police, or government. I'm simply opposed to all forms of aggressive violence. If you think you have to hurt someone to solve a problem, you are the problem.
12. Special thanks to the words of encouragement from the people in this thread.
I have a few facts I would like to correct. Make what you will of it.
1. I did NOT renounce my citizenship for tax reasons. I haven't lived in the USA for 9 years, but I've paid about $1M USD each year in US taxes for the last 10+ years, and will continue to pay a similar amount for as long as I continue to do business in the USA. (People like Help.org / Milly Bitcoin can go to hell for claiming I haven't paid my fair share)
2. My visa is being denied because the embassy workers are claiming that I haven't sufficiently proved my ties to a country outside the USA that would motivate me to leave the US at the end of my trip. They told me this verbally and in writing.
Actual rejection letter:
3. They told me verbally that my visa denial has nothing to do with my criminal record from over a decade ago.
4. While claiming I hadn't sufficiently shown proof of my ties outside the USA, they were refusing to even look at the proof I had brought. (9 years worth of ties to Japan) They wouldn't even let me slide the documentation through the slot in the interview window!
5. Free Talk Live was nice enough to let me tell more of my side of the story recently: https://soundcloud.com/freetalklive/free-talk-live-interviews-roger-ver-aka-bitcoin-jesus
6. I shouldn't have stored fireworks in the apartment without the owner's permission, and I shouldn't have sent them through the mail, but I was 19 or 20 years old at the time of my arrest, and young people tend to do immature things. I don't think sending me to federal prison was the right response. At some point I will do a longer write up of all the shenanigans played by law enforcement with my case.
7. The internet was a very different place at that time. I was selling the fireworks on ebay in their guns and ammo section along side all sorts of ammunition and assault rifles.
8. I never stored 50lbs worth in an apartment. 50lbs was the total amount that I purchased over a 1 or 2 year period while I was selling the product. Only some fraction of that was ever in the apartment at one time. That included all the packaging materials. Each one contained about 1 gram of explosive, and I purchased about 2000 pcs total, so the total sold over the time period was about 2KG and only a fraction of that was ever in the apartment at one time.
9. Milly Bitcoin doesn't even bother to read his own links. I was the only person in the entire world to be sent to jail for selling these without a permit. The manufacturer sold more than 1,000,000 units and was simply ordered to stop. Cabelas.com sold the exact same product, and they had no permit. They were simply ordered to stop. The company I bought mine from, had no permit and were simply ordered to stop.
10. I'm not perfect, and have never claimed to be. There is no such thing as a Bitcoin Jesus. I've made plenty of mistakes with my Bitcoin related work. I'm just doing the best I can.
11. I'm not opposed to rules, or police, or government. I'm simply opposed to all forms of aggressive violence. If you think you have to hurt someone to solve a problem, you are the problem.
12. Special thanks to the words of encouragement from the people in this thread.
Every time I see a post from Help.org/Milly Bitcoin on here or elsewhere online, I know that I'm in for tirade from a government troll. Nice to see that the pattern hasn't been broken on here 
Yes, the whole world is a bunch of trolls and idiots and only a small group of underemployed gamers, teenagers, and mental cases actually know the truth. Funny how that works.
Seeing as you indicated you watched at least the first five seconds of my suggested link, I went and read the blog link you posted. Now that I've read it, I wonder... what was the point of that? I see nothing of value to this discussion therein. Just some guy whining about things that other people are doing of their own free volition. I guess a guy advocating for the violence of the state might want to direct that actions of others, but it comes off as merely a strident screed. It also fails to surprise that a contemporary western lawyer (I guess this is this guy's vocation?) might be uncomfortable with all the omnipresent legalistic micro-structure that purports to restrict the free voluntary cooperation required for a functional stateless society. So he's another guy with another stinky opinion. What am I to take from it?
Care to clue me what the point was?
People value security above any political ideology ...
Shall I insert the obligatory Ben Franklin quote here, or would that be gratuitous?
I think I know the one you're talking about, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Don't waste it on him. He wouldn't understand it anyway. Just do what I did and put him on ignore.
People value security above any political ideology ...
Shall I insert the obligatory Ben Franklin quote here, or would that be gratuitous?
Roger and I have not seen eye to eye on every issue. We've sent angry PMs to each other over a personal difference of opinion. I still have the PMs. I'm not, however, going to disregard his contribution because we don't always agree. Too many people in this community are willing to throw a brother away when they're down. It just ain't right.
He is some guy who bought Bitcoin and is trying to make a profit via the incentive system that is set up. He is not a "brother" and nobody agrees to join any "community" when they use Bitcoin. We are not "brothers" and Ver is not "down." He gave up his citizenship and now he can't attend a Bitcoin conference and spout misinformation to promote his fantasy agenda. Who cares? It is a positive for Bitcoin to get this nut job off the agenda of serious Bitcoin conferences.
Wow, you really are a horrible human being. With supporters like you who needs enemies. Bitcoin isn't the community I'm talking about you fool. The users of this forum are and unfortunately you're a part of it. Regardless of their agenda his support helped this group of people advance Bitcoin. He is down. The tax authority of a ruthless country is chasing him around the world to steal his money because they need money to impose their will with force on the entire world. I've never said this about anyone here before, even the trolls, but listening to your pompous ramblings makes me sick to my stomach. Why don't you go fall off the edge of the earth. You do still think it's flat, right?
Ver wants to use the system for his benefit and he doesn't to pay his pair share. Then he wants to use the situation to promote himself and his fantasies ... just like he is using Ross Ubricht's mother during the most difficult time of her life. On top of that he calls the people who helped him get where is today "the violent ones" and "murderers." I don't care what he invested in or who he got involved in Bitcoin I want absolutely nothing to do with him or any of his associates or followers.
Roger and I have not seen eye to eye on every issue. We've sent angry PMs to each other over a personal difference of opinion. I still have the PMs. I'm not, however, going to disregard his contribution because we don't always agree. Too many people in this community are willing to throw a brother away when they're down. It just ain't right.
He is some guy who bought Bitcoin and is trying to make a profit via the incentive system that is set up. He is not a "brother" and nobody agrees to join any "community" when they use Bitcoin. We are not "brothers" and Ver is not "down." He gave up his citizenship and now he can't attend a Bitcoin conference and spout misinformation to promote his fantasy agenda. Who cares? It is a positive for Bitcoin to get this nut job off the agenda of serious Bitcoin conferences.
Wow, you really are a horrible human being. With supporters like you who needs enemies. Bitcoin isn't the community I'm talking about you fool. The users of this forum are and unfortunately you're a part of it. Regardless of their agenda his support helped this group of people advance Bitcoin. He is down. The tax authority of a ruthless country is chasing him around the world to steal his money because they need money to impose their will with force on the entire world. I've never said this about anyone here before, even the trolls, but listening to your pompous ramblings makes me sick to my stomach. Why don't you go fall off the edge of the earth. You do still think it's flat, right?
I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't agree in principle with something he believes about the country. Presentation is everything though and he scares the little fluffy bunny citizens too much to garner big support. That's the reason they still don't have the necessary 20,000 people to trigger the move after all these years.
Wrong again, people are not scared. People think they are ridiculous because they take things too far. People value security above any political ideology and society is not going to change because some nut case who has not achieved much in life says so.
Roger and I have not seen eye to eye on every issue. We've sent angry PMs to each other over a personal difference of opinion. I still have the PMs. I'm not, however, going to disregard his contribution because we don't always agree. Too many people in this community are willing to throw a brother away when they're down. It just ain't right.
He is some guy who bought Bitcoin and is trying to make a profit via the incentive system that is set up. He is not a "brother" and nobody agrees to join any "community" when they use Bitcoin. We are not "brothers" and Ver is not "down." He gave up his citizenship and now he can't attend a Bitcoin conference and spout misinformation to promote his fantasy agenda. Who cares? It is a positive for Bitcoin to get this nut job off the agenda of serious Bitcoin conferences.
The law just looks like a spoiled bully that is making up stupid rules because they're pissed because one of their subjects stood up for himself and said, enough is enough.
If you recall that sort of behaviour helped spark the revolution that the USofA started from. Has it come full circle?
Well, the people involved in the Free State Project seem to think so.
I remember seeing the Free State Project ads on CoinVisitor. Didn't know that was still in operation.
They're still around. https://freestateproject.org
If it's disturbing to you and you agree with the ideology then what must the rest of the country think? LOL
Freeman has the right idea but he's too fringe/radical in his presentations to get major support. One of my favorite quotes from him is, "I don't believe in the state. Unfortunately a lot of people do believe in the state and they are willing to kill for it. It is a very very dangerous religion." I completely agree with that statement even though it alienates about 90% of the people in the country. He needs to back off of the militia speak and start preaching the little things that everyone hates about the direction this country has taken. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't agree in principle with something he believes about the country. Presentation is everything though and he scares the little fluffy bunny citizens too much to garner big support. That's the reason they still don't have the necessary 20,000 people to trigger the move after all these years.
It'd be like coaching Ron Paul... and then you get some ad coming out where he endorsed whats-his-name (Amit Singh?) I still remember a quote from... "TEX MESSSXT?!" Like - someone clearly wrote a script he was supposed to follow, and it was like watching a five-year-old at a school play trying to pretend they're the Duke of Butthamburg with a straight face. -Or that line, which was absolutely hilarious (mostly for the wrong reasons)... "You'd have to smoke a joint as big as a telephone pole to get high off hemp!" Ron obviously didn't write that line and he wasn't able to deliver it in any believable way, even though it's the only quote I remember from whatever speech or rally that was.Yeah, you're right. It's his honest passion that makes him who he is. If you tried to script him it wouldn't work. This will piss off a lot of Free Staters but maybe someone else more mellow needs to be the face of the project for a while. If there even is someone more mellow in that group. lol
The law just looks like a spoiled bully that is making up stupid rules because they're pissed because one of their subjects stood up for himself and said, enough is enough.
If you recall that sort of behaviour helped spark the revolution that the USofA started from. Has it come full circle?
Well, the people involved in the Free State Project seem to think so.
I remember seeing the Free State Project ads on CoinVisitor. Didn't know that was still in operation.
They're still around. https://freestateproject.org
If it's disturbing to you and you agree with the ideology then what must the rest of the country think? LOL
Freeman has the right idea but he's too fringe/radical in his presentations to get major support. One of my favorite quotes from him is, "I don't believe in the state. Unfortunately a lot of people do believe in the state and they are willing to kill for it. It is a very very dangerous religion." I completely agree with that statement even though it alienates about 90% of the people in the country. He needs to back off of the militia speak and start preaching the little things that everyone hates about the direction this country has taken. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't agree in principle with something he believes about the country. Presentation is everything though and he scares the little fluffy bunny citizens too much to garner big support. That's the reason they still don't have the necessary 20,000 people to trigger the move after all these years.
It'd be like coaching Ron Paul... and then you get some ad coming out where he endorsed whats-his-name (Amit Singh?) I still remember a quote from... "TEX MESSSXT?!" Like - someone clearly wrote a script he was supposed to follow, and it was like watching a five-year-old at a school play trying to pretend they're the Duke of Butthamburg with a straight face. -Or that line, which was absolutely hilarious (mostly for the wrong reasons)... "You'd have to smoke a joint as big as a telephone pole to get high off hemp!" Ron obviously didn't write that line and he wasn't able to deliver it in any believable way, even though it's the only quote I remember from whatever speech or rally that was. The law just looks like a spoiled bully that is making up stupid rules because they're pissed because one of their subjects stood up for himself and said, enough is enough.
If you recall that sort of behaviour helped spark the revolution that the USofA started from. Has it come full circle?
Well, the people involved in the Free State Project seem to think so.
I remember seeing the Free State Project ads on CoinVisitor. Didn't know that was still in operation.
They're still around. https://freestateproject.org
If it's disturbing to you and you agree with the ideology then what must the rest of the country think? LOL
Freeman has the right idea but he's too fringe/radical in his presentations to get major support. One of my favorite quotes from him is, "I don't believe in the state. Unfortunately a lot of people do believe in the state and they are willing to kill for it. It is a very very dangerous religion." I completely agree with that statement even though it alienates about 90% of the people in the country. He needs to back off of the militia speak and start preaching the little things that everyone hates about the direction this country has taken. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't agree in principle with something he believes about the country. Presentation is everything though and he scares the little fluffy bunny citizens too much to garner big support. That's the reason they still don't have the necessary 20,000 people to trigger the move after all these years.
The law just looks like a spoiled bully that is making up stupid rules because they're pissed because one of their subjects stood up for himself and said, enough is enough.
If you recall that sort of behaviour helped spark the revolution that the USofA started from. Has it come full circle?
Well, the people involved in the Free State Project seem to think so.
I remember seeing the Free State Project ads on CoinVisitor. Didn't know that was still in operation.
They're still around. https://freestateproject.org
A lot of the early Bitcoin community likes him [Ver]. He was one of the reasons Bitcoin took off. He donated his money and time to the cause when everyone else in the world thought Bitcoiners were a collection of radical idiots. He owned one of the first brick and mortar businesses to accept Bitcoin, put up a billboard on a San Jose freeway supporting Bitcoin, preached the cause all over the world and championed it with all his might. Agree with him or not, hate him or not, we're probably all still here in no small part because of him.
+1. It's easy to forget this, and I've forgotten it from time to time.
Roger and I have not seen eye to eye on every issue. We've sent angry PMs to each other over a personal difference of opinion. I still have the PMs. I'm not, however, going to disregard his contribution because we don't always agree. Too many people in this community are willing to throw a brother away when they're down. It just ain't right.
A lot of the early Bitcoin community likes him [Ver]. He was one of the reasons Bitcoin took off. He donated his money and time to the cause when everyone else in the world thought Bitcoiners were a collection of radical idiots. He owned one of the first brick and mortar businesses to accept Bitcoin, put up a billboard on a San Jose freeway supporting Bitcoin, preached the cause all over the world and championed it with all his might. Agree with him or not, hate him or not, we're probably all still here in no small part because of him.
+1. It's easy to forget this, and I've forgotten it from time to time.
Of course, that is why I am involved. Just because I am dissatisfied with parts of the system does not mean the solution is some kind of ridiculous fantasy anarcho-whatever system that would have everyone living in caves.
If we didn't have "authority" to force us to do better, we'd be living in caves? Really?
Life would be very different, yes. Personally, I think it would be an improvement. I can understand how others may feel different, but I am convinced that the mental image you portray about the state we would be in without dictatorial overlords is way off the mark.
Since Whitehurst was and FBI agent people like Ver and the Free State Project call him a "murderer" too. Don't you see how ridiculous those people are and how stupid they make Bitcoin look?
No, I fail to see how that makes Bitcoin look stupid. Does that make all males look stupid? All former US citizens?
Back when people lived in caves these restrictions did not exist.
Seriously?
Something is badly wrong with justice anyways, when selling fireworks is considered illegal even though they were properly paid for (and not stolen). A proper sales contract between two private individuals, how can that be illegal?!?!?!
Well that is the way it *should* be. Even the US dollar says "Legal tender for all debts, public and private" But it really doesn't work that way, sadly.
100% agreed. Now, if Ebay bans such sales on their website, that is perfectly within their right and the only sentence he therefore deserved, was losing his Ebay account.
Instead he got 10 months in jail for properly executing contracts with other individuals on a voluntary basis. This obviously was the reason he renounced his citizenship. I had no idea who Roger Ver is but like him now
A lot of the early Bitcoin community likes him. He was one of the reasons Bitcoin took off. He donated his money and time to the cause when everyone else in the world thought Bitcoiners were a collection of radical idiots. He owned one of the first brick and mortar businesses to accept Bitcoin, put up a billboard on a San Jose freeway supporting Bitcoin, preached the cause all over the world and championed it with all his might. Agree with him or not, hate him or not, we're probably all still here in no small part because of him.
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