Topic: Bitcoin Town: Let's Make the Future Come to us - page 3. (Read 54779 times)

Well, three of the examples you quoted have more guns than the UK and less than the US, and have more gun deaths than the UK and less than the US, so I'm not sure what your point is there. Jamaica and many other countries with higher gun death rate than the US (e.g. Somalia) are outliers because the rule of law in general is weak, the police are corrupt, and border controls are poor, making it very difficult to control gun ownership. It is not only a matter of outlawing them, but being able to properly enforce that law. As you've kindly demonstrated, the correlation between gun density and gun deaths still holds.


It certainly isn't a non-argument - a gun is by any measure the easiest and fastest way of killing yourself. In the time it takes to buy a rope, tie a noose, find a chair etc., many people will have second thoughts. The same argument applies to homicide - it is difficult and risky, not to mention visceral, bloody and horrifyingly intimate, to kill some-one with a knife or a hammer, whereas a gun can be used at a relative distance with ease and detachment.

Certainly if you are utterly, mercilessly determined to kill yourself or some-one else then you will be able to, but that doesn't apply in most cases, and guns make it easy to go through with it. The presence of guns also has the ability to turn any angry or violent confrontation into a murder scene in the heat of the moment.

Do you have any response to the fact that you are more likely to be killed if you have a gun in your home, not less? Self-defence?


This.

"The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in Jamaica is 8.11 firearms per 100 people"

With only 8.11 firearms they do a pretty good job at enforcing that law. 

My point was that there are death rates in countries with strict gun laws that are higher than countries with less strict gun laws and more guns. And these figures show that the correlation between gun density and deaths don't hold, you can't dismiss the numbers from the same site if they don't comply with your theory. The numbers for Jamaica are what they are, less guns than for example Sweden but more deaths.

The Netherlands have btw less guns than the UK but more deaths.
Honduras has only 6.21 firearms per 100 people but 64.8 deaths.

And so on, but with statistics you can prove anything off course, as long as you pick the right data that fit into your theory. But to be more ontopic, in regard of Bitcoin Town, the average IQ of this community is way above the average of any country. And I can say that in a country where the average IQ would be pretty high and the moral and general happiness pretty good. We won't see many gun accidents, I actually dare to say, we wouldn't see many guns either. But people should have the freedom to have one if they wanted. If we pick our residents carefully, we shouldn't have to worry about someone who likes to have a gun and practices from time to time with it on a shooting range. Many residents of something like Bitcoin Town will probably be engaged in many shootings, but I'm sure they will only take place in games like COD or Battlefield.    

Who doesn't have some rope in the house? And finding a chair? How long does it take to find a chair in your house? You're probably sitting on one right now.
That way you also can say "In the time it takes to go to a shop, buy a gun and bullets, load the gun, pull the trigger,..." Way faster to just take that kitchen knife and cut an artery. If you want to kill yourself, you will find a way and you'll probably thought about it for awhile before taking the step.

A crowbar is just as easy to kill someone in the heat of the moment, if someone is that angry to be able to pull the trigger of a gun he's able to kill someone with anything he can grab.

And sure I have a response, it is also more likely you'll get bitten by a dog if you own dogs. Due to adequate obedience training none of my dogs have ever bitten and the chances they will are pretty slim. Responsible gun ownership won't higher your chances of being killed, enough examples of people who successfully defended their home against intruders.

1 example: http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-mom-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/story?id=18164812

Well spoken!!
I Feel safer for sure without guns, in my country you know you dont have to fear anyone can bring a gun to even normal people. I just dont like the idea that anybody can have a gun.
Ofcourse people can bring other weapons like hammer/baseballbat/knife but you can defend alot better vs that.
And with a gun, 1 bullet is all it takes you only have to pull the trigger. 

Surprisingly enough , some of us feel safer enough without guns to protect them from criminals , and not willing to risk to get shot by your neighbor having too many beers at his barbeque party.

I can do this too:
Switzerland: 3.84 (45,7 guns /100 people, every men actually gets a gun)
Sweden: 1.47 (31.6 guns / 100 people and 1.20 are suicides, and a rope is just as effective, so I don't think those would have been saved)
Norway: 1.78 (One of the safest countries in the world, went there a few times and never felt safer than anywhere else, 31.3 guns / 100 people though)
Jamaica: 39.74 (8.1 guns / 100 people, that's only a little more than in the UK where it is 6.7)

So the more guns the population has, the safer the country?

No of course not, that would be a wrong conclusion, like you just did. Yes, the UK has one of the lowest deaths by guns but it has nothing to do with the law, many countries where gun regulation is just as strict score higher than for example Sweden and Norway. (Belgium, France,...)

Why aren't there more accidents in Scandinavia and Switzerland with guns like in the US? Or why has Jamaica a crazy high amount of deaths by guns while they have restricted gun laws and don't have many more guns than the UK?

It's something else, the mentality of people perhaps? I have no clue actually, Americans are probably a little bit too gun crazy but assuming the same would happen in Europe when you allowed guns is wrong in my opinion. Suicide is a non-argument anyway, I don't need a gun to kill myself, a rope is just as effective. And those homicides, I can take a knife or a hammer and kill someone too. I won't ever do those things though, not with or without a gun. But I should have the right to defend my family and possessions, now and in the future if things would go really bad. And a gun is still the most effective tool for that, if I was a criminal I really would think twice to rob a house where the owners have guns.

btw: http://chartsbin.com/view/2642
Better ban cars first?

Yes when guns are easy to get ofcourse more people will get them.
I know Americans love there guns and stuff but they cause so many problems to.
Way more shootings and unnecesary deaths, guns are a evil invention, for 1 goal only, killing people.
And i think its bad for bitcointown to have guns in it, i mean in other country's you dont even need guns to protect yourself, because only the hard criminals will have them.
And if you have good security its not needed at all!

You know it isn't split between "law-abiding perfect citizens" and "die-hard murderous criminals" right? Firstly, of course it bothers most criminals to break two laws instead of one, not because they are moral people but because they engage in basic risk management. Secondly, more people become criminals when guns are easily available.


You can rationalise it all you want, but the statistics are quite clear. Gun deaths per 100,000 population:

US: 10.3 (victims have the right to defend themselves with guns)
UK: 0.25 (criminals have a harder time getting guns, and are arrested if caught carrying)

Within US (AJE):

"Persons with guns in the home are at significantly greater risk of death by both homicide and suicide than those without guns in the home."

load of bollox

I wish Bitcoin rules the world and this Fucking American rule end.

No, the same amount of criminals would have them, it wouldn't be criminals if they would obey the law. If it doesn't bother you to rob someone, it won't bother you to have an illegal weapon.
And you're right about the dogs, they won't be afraid, but if that criminal is armed, the dog will lose it against a bullet. He will just run towards his death, even a knife is enough to take a dog down.


You're a special kind of idiot if you give your kid a weapon or keep it in reach of a child. You don't give a child knifes and sharp scissors to play with either, I don't see why a responsible adult couldn't have a gun though. If you give me a gun, I'm pretty sure no accidents will happen and no child will come near it.

How do you explain those slaughters in Europe by the way? Guns are banned in most European countries.
And good luck with those martial arts when you need to fight against a bullet, unless your name is Neo, you'll probably lose it.

We can agree on that last thing though.  

But if in your country guns where allowed, more criminals would have them and more shootings would occure.
Ofcourse trained dogs, and i like dogs to but i dont think trained dogs will be affraid of that.
I dont care about the people trying to kill/steal from bitcointown, but i do care of the safety of the people.
And i think guns can happen alot of accidents with.


Yes i think you have a nice idea martial arts for everyone we kick criminals there asses
And yeh the people who we really need to be care of are the people trying to stop bitcoin

Is nice if the guns are banned but this should be done according of the environment.
I'm against guns but if environment is hostile then guns are required.
The problem with guns is that they are easy to use and the same time
dangerous as also kids can use them.
And recently as you can see there were some slaughters made by kids i some schools in US and europe.
It would be better for community to learn martial arts this way you will get community of
physically healthy and physically stable mature non violent people.

I would also tell that the biggest criminals are not this poor few
mentally challenged that are waving with guns
but the others that are wearing nice suites and ties

Guns are banned where I live, they don't cost that much, any criminal can afford them. 

If you ban guns, you only end up with criminals having them and citizens who can't defend themselves.

And you are against guns but it is ok to electrocute someone or send a bunch of guard dogs after them? I have dogs but to be honest I wouldn't want them to risk their life if I catch an armed thief in the house. I would prefer to shoot him instead of my dogs attacking him and maybe get killed, their life is more precious to me than anything else. But that aside, immobilize someone with a shot in the leg is probably more human than electrocute someone or get him shredded by dogs, piranhas, alligators,...

Most criminals dont have guns in country's where they are banned.
Ofcourse if they really want to get it they got it but for alot of money, and they are hard to get.
So not all criminals have the resources to even get guns or the money for them.
We can just use the drone with laser they are making with bitcoins
Nah We could have a big group of guard dogs, and A lake around us with piranhas and alligators.
And things to electrocute them, tons of stuff you can do other then guns.
Guns only bring problems to the world! 

wait what? why would you want to live in a country where guns are banned? unless you are a criminal,  how would you defend yourself from criminals who would have guns whether they were banned or not?

This is a really good idea, I want to live in the town to how can I signup?
I only dont like the location you should choose a country where guns are Banned.
And Where smoking and growing weed is legalized.
Mexico is dangerous to with all the cartels.
Better choose a country where Eu-Usa cant touch us, and where they have nice weather!

Bitcoin as main currency is really getting real. I can’t wait to see this get implemented. I’ve only seen few business establishments that are using bitcoin, and now a whole town? This is really amazing!

Arent some libertarians trying to set up something like this in New Hampshire already?

Edit: http://freestateproject.org/

Made a blog for the thread
http://finshaggy.blogspot.com/2013/09/bitcoin-town-rough-draft-of-plan-to.html

Quick, go Galt on the new island!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57604518/pakistan-earthquake-kills-more-than-200-creates-new-island-off-southwest-coast/