Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash - page 20. | Bitcointalksearch.org

jaysabi

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Quote from: exstasie on August 10, 2017, 06:30:48 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on August 10, 2017, 05:28:04 PM

Since the network is identical at the split, you have the burden of proof I suppose of arguing against the notion that there isn't already a system in place that can pick up where it left off at the split point. So yes, while I am assuming that merchants or people who were accepting bitcoin could just as easily accept BCH, since the network is a clone, the addresses are a clone, the private keys are a clone, etc., it seems logical to me that people abandoning the unusable network would find the least friction in taking up the BCH network.

This just means that transaction format is similar and the UTXO set has been copied. I don't see how, in practice, Bitcoin Cash is different than other altcoins. It's similarly easy for merchants/services to accept other altcoins. The BTC network has certainly not been cloned; BTC users carrying on normally can't see activity on the BCH network. It's incompatible, ignored by their nodes.

The only thing that separates Bitcoin Cash (or Segwit2x) from other altcoins is marketing. The fact is that any hard fork is an altcoin. Fair enough, maybe we will all be using some altcoin in the future rather than Bitcoin.

Quote from: jaysabi on August 10, 2017, 05:28:04 PM

If you are a merchant or consumer using Bitcoin, what's preventing you from switching to BCH?

Network activity, demand. Just like any other altcoin.

Quote from: jaysabi on August 10, 2017, 05:28:04 PM

That's not a prediction of what will happen, that's my opinion of what is the most likely outcome if bitcoin can't solve capacity.

There are wealthy interests in the Bitcoin space with a lot of money to market their BTC fork and spam/attack the BTC network. And they also have a lot of BTC to dump. I don't think they'll prevail, but they (Bitmain, Roger Ver, etc.) are nothing to sneeze at.

Yes, I agree with your definition that any hard fork is an alt. And further that BCH is an alt. I would like for it to prove to be just like every other alt, but I'm not convinced it is. Let me refine a statement though that you pointed out, the network isn't a clone (since network is made up by the participants and by defintion has to be different), but the network infrastructure is a clone at the split point. The thing that differentiates BCH from just another alt is that anyone currently transacting in BTC already has funds in BCH and switching or adding BCH requires less friction than a substantially different blockchain.

As for you answering my question: what's preventing you from switching to BCH, you responded then network and demand. That's partially my point. If the BTC network once again proves unable to scale and handle the capacity crunch, then you don't have even that, and if inertia is the only thing keeping BTC the larger ecosystem, I think you'll see parity or eventually BCH emerge as the winner if BTC can't get its act together.

Bodywowoya

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Quote from: senturion on August 17, 2017, 02:50:39 PM

I don't believe in bcc dump

Over the past day, the price of this coin on many exchanges has risen by 25%. This is not small. It seems to me that this coin can still become interesting for many traders and maybe even investors

sandrun

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I think bitcoin cash will not be as good as bitcoin. Bitxoin cash for me just a new coin like altcoin else. Although it was in the adoption of bitcoin. Bitcoin cash will not match bitcoin because this coin is new .. it takes a long time to reach a price like bitcoin. It may be that future bitcoin cash is no longer in the interest of crypto coin users. But not with bitcoin .. people believe with bitcoin. Bitcoin alan provides a great deal to the owner. And is an investment with huge profits. You can earn money that folded from bitcoin. And later in the transaction bitcoin very in the interest in the world. So maybe bitcoin will still be superior to bitcoin cash

exstasie

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Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 02:44:05 PM

Quote from: exstasie on August 17, 2017, 01:11:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 08:42:36 AM

If you don't fight the market, the market starts fighting you

Indeed, we should follow the scent of money, and if Bitcoin Cash takes over regular Bitcoin, there is no reason not to use it if it can give decent profits. But so far we have seen a huge price rise in Bitcoin and essentially nothing of Bitcoin Cash. If things go on like this, I don't think that this Bitcoin forkcoin is ever going to cut it. For most practical intents and purposes, it doesn't offer any advantage before the original Bitcoin, so the only way it could compete with the latter is by offering better profitability. But we haven't seen any yet

If things continue like this, I don't see much of a future for it, either. But having watched altcoin charts for a long time, I think that there's a good possibility that a) it could pump once BTC corrects, or b) it will eventually show whale accumulation and pump like many altcoins

Personally, I see a lot of strange things going on right now

All of a sudden, Bitcoin rose from below 3,000 dollars to almost 4,500 dollars per coin within a fortnight (or even less than that). If it was just volatility due to market thinning (one possible explanation), the price would have corrected massively already but it seems to be pretty resilient presently.

I think it is simply due to the lack of supply/demand equilibrium after we left the $1800-$3000 trading range. Many bears accumulated short positions or sold their bitcoins, causing a massive flood back into the market (short squeeze). No doubt, the bitcoin price is resilient despite all the fork and chain split threats.

Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 02:44:05 PM

Another strange thing which caught my eye is altocoins mostly sleeping now with their prices not moving (while they typically follow Bitcoin's lead pretty close and fast). I've come up with an explanation which basically boils down to people liquidating their Bitcoin Cash reserves for dollars and buying up regular bitcoins with the proceeds. But someone should be pouring simply insane amounts of fiat to prop up the Bitcoin Cash price in the interim

It seems this rally was Bitcoin's time to shine (where May/June was the time for altcoins). I think once BTC has a significant correction, money will start flowing back into altcoins.

And yeah, someone is propping up Bitcoin Cash. Maybe it's Roger Ver.

senturion

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I don't believe in bcc dump

deisik

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Quote from: exstasie on August 17, 2017, 01:11:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 08:42:36 AM

If you don't fight the market, the market starts fighting you

Indeed, we should follow the scent of money, and if Bitcoin Cash takes over regular Bitcoin, there is no reason not to use it if it can give decent profits. But so far we have seen a huge price rise in Bitcoin and essentially nothing of Bitcoin Cash. If things go on like this, I don't think that this Bitcoin forkcoin is ever going to cut it. For most practical intents and purposes, it doesn't offer any advantage before the original Bitcoin, so the only way it could compete with the latter is by offering better profitability. But we haven't seen any yet

If things continue like this, I don't see much of a future for it, either. But having watched altcoin charts for a long time, I think that there's a good possibility that a) it could pump once BTC corrects, or b) it will eventually show whale accumulation and pump like many altcoins

Personally, I see a lot of strange things going on right now

All of a sudden, Bitcoin rose from below 3,000 dollars to almost 4,500 dollars per coin within a fortnight (or even less than that). If it was just volatility due to market thinning (one possible explanation), the price would have corrected massively already but it seems to be pretty resilient presently. Another strange thing which caught my eye is altocoins mostly sleeping now with their prices not moving (while they typically follow Bitcoin's lead pretty close and fast). I've come up with an explanation which basically boils down to people liquidating their Bitcoin Cash reserves for dollars and buying up regular bitcoins with the proceeds. But someone should be pouring simply insane amounts of fiat to prop up the Bitcoin Cash price in the interim

exstasie

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Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 08:42:36 AM

Quote from: exstasie on August 17, 2017, 03:29:14 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 01:50:45 AM

Quote from: South Park on August 16, 2017, 01:57:08 PM

I do not know why we cannot try to put bitcoin and bitcoin cash in the same ring, that is exactly what the miners want they want to defeat bitcoin with their altcoin, at the moment this is a no contest bitcoin will win in the first seconds of the first round if this was a boxing match.

Indeed, we can place them in the same ring

In fact, this is what we should do exactly and exactly that has already been done by any major exchange out there (Bittrex, Bitfinex, Poloniex, etc). Since both of these coins are traded, the market is going to decide on their fate. Anyway, neither regular Bitcoin nor Bitcoin Cash are used as sort of "cash", they are just speculation vehicles and therefore will compete (are competing) in this division

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Yeah, I think BCH is an altcoin... Bitcoin forks tend to be altcoins. I prefer Bitcoin, but I think we might all be using some superior altcoin someday. Who knows? If something like Segwit2x overtakes Bitcoin, I recall Greg Maxwell saying that he'd rather launch a new altcoin than work on legacy BTC + POW change. Whatever he builds is worth keeping an eye on, should that happen.

Anyway, I think in the world of cryptocurrencies, we should be supportive of free markets. No need to be dogmatic. That's why I hold my Bitcoin Cash, even if I don't think it can compete with Bitcoin in the long run. Because I don't fight the market.

If you don't fight the market, the market starts fighting you

Indeed, we should follow the scent of money, and if Bitcoin Cash takes over regular Bitcoin, there is no reason not to use it if it can give decent profits. But so far we have seen a huge price rise in Bitcoin and essentially nothing of Bitcoin Cash. If things go on like this, I don't think that this Bitcoin forkcoin is ever going to cut it. For most practical intents and purposes, it doesn't offer any advantage before the original Bitcoin, so the only way it could compete with the latter is by offering better profitability. But we haven't seen any yet

If things continue like this, I don't see much of a future for it, either. But having watched altcoin charts for a long time, I think that there's a good possibility that a) it could pump once BTC corrects, or b) it will eventually show whale accumulation and pump like many altcoins.

I like to make these investment decisions over weeks or months (or years even). Hence not fighting the market. It was an airdrop, so I won't lose any any BTC over it. I may miss an opportunity to get more BTC, but anyone who has sold their BCC has taken the same risk.

Monnt

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 13, 2017, 06:50:36 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 12, 2017, 06:17:57 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 12, 2017, 04:59:50 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 11, 2017, 07:53:31 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 11, 2017, 04:18:56 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 10, 2017, 03:51:22 AM

Things are more intricate than that

They don't have to support Bitcoin Cash indefinitely since people will run out of their BCH tokens sooner or later even if all of them choose to get rid of these tokens. Obviously, quite a few BCH holders aren't going to sell these coins, and some may even be looking to buy more. Anyway, after this initial stage of rampant sell-offs and buy-ups is over, their hands will be untied, and they can proceed to the next level of dethroning Bitcoin (as they likely think). You also seem to discard the possibility that the cartel might be selling regular bitcoins for BCH to prop up the price of the latter

I may be wrong but I see it like this. If you are selling something you have to make the price competitive. In other words the price should be lower than in other places, otherwise people will be buying in those places and not from you. In our case if we are selling Bitcoins for Bitcoin Cash we should make people pay less Bitcoin Cash for BTC than in other places to attract buyers. Yes, such act would prop up the price of BCH, but at what cost. We'll be losing money. In fact selling Bitcoins for lower amount of Bitcoin Cash is the same thing as buying Bitcoin Cash for higher amount of Bitcoins

This is certainly not the only possibility

You can sell original bitcoins for dollars and get market rates. And then use dollars to bid up the price slowly. But this is ultimately irrelevant since you may be selling for a loss today to earn decent profits tomorrow. In fact, when you buy some asset you hope that it will rise in the future even if its price continues to decline after you make a purchase. But this is obviously not all. The cartel may not be looking for short term profits (like in "buy low sell high"). They are ultimately looking for control, and they don't care about how much it could cost them in dollar or Bitcoin terms since if they control Bitcoin (under whatever name), they control the whole market (after all, they could break even entirely via mining fees in the end)

Well, if they are people with dozens of billions USD and their aim is to control the whole market, they may try, good luck with that, but I think they will fail. Fortunately lately, I mean 15 years or so, we are living in the world where, thanks to the internet, what is really the best wins. No matter how much money you spend on promotion, if there's something which is better in the same field with the product you promote, you will fail.

In fact, I don't particularly disagree with you

At least, not in general. But the case of Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin Cash doesn't belong here. Honestly, I don't see any important or crucial difference between the former and the latter. They are basically six of one and half a dozen of the other in virtually any respect which is of significance here. You can substitute one with the other, and nothing is going to change. Therefore, you can't possibly say that one is much better than the other if that was your point

First of, I'm not arguing with you, I pretty much enjoy reading you posts. It's more like I enjoy the conversation.

My point is, if someone invented a drink absolutely identical to Coca-Cola and named it Koka-Drink, I'd prefer to use the original Coca-Cola and I'd be saying that Coca-Cola is much better than Koka-Drink because the former was the revolution in its time and the latter was just a copy, and if we were supporting the things like the latter the progress would stop.

I think it is even better to argue if you are mature enough to understand where you or the other person is wrong and where your or the other person could be corrected.
I don’t see any shame in it if someone is corrects me at a time where I am wrong and I swear I appreciate those who criticize me for the sake of correcting me. I feel it much better to be on a right path due to someone’s guidance instead of being wrong.
Coming towards the replica adoption or copy is not all time a bad idea, there is a chance of from better to best everywhere.

nrvasquez

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Quote from: freundes on July 31, 2017, 11:42:25 PM

What do you think of Bitcoin Cash?
Do you think it will have the same value as Bitcoin or it will be just another Alt. Coin in the crypto market?

This is a question I often hear, and actually the answer is already there. Bcc will not be able to fight any bitcoin that happens, here bitcoin is too strong to compare with bcc.

Sidas_Crew669

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Quote from: Ewinsane on August 15, 2017, 12:08:31 PM

Quote from: olubams on August 14, 2017, 01:28:40 PM

Quote from: Dendron on August 14, 2017, 05:23:04 AM

Bitcoin Cash is an altcoin, that is getting no support at all by no one beside its creators. This is what we can call a big fail. Being an altcoin, I see no reason to compare them...

To those comparing the two, they know what they saw and they also know the basis for such conclusion but for me, I have not even claimed my own BCC with all the paparazzi and I am not sure I will but it seems the popularity of BCH or BCC is just for a while and after the week of August 1, it just seems everyone decides to close the chapter on the controversy but I wish it will succeed so that doubters would at least know they are wrong on this one.

Yes, BitcoinCash is just a new altcoin that was ripped off newly from the main BTC, so you shouldn’t expect it to start competing with BTC since it’s still new in market. This is just its first month, so let’s wait and see how things roll out in coming months. Personally I do not see any big potential with BCH as bitcoin itself is updating itself to scale high volumes. So, BCH may fade out in quicker times.

Indeed basically bitcoincash is not a suitable competitor to beat bitcoin, because it is already in the wings widen bitcoin most of the population in the world. Just stay a step and waits for the right time and will definitely use bitcoin is booming around the world. Indeed in the concept of bitcoincash is much better than the bitcoin, but marketing bch far worse than btc. But not closing the possibility in the future could be the toughest competitor bch btc after eth. fixed monitor and try to save a little

Zeke_23

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I am not anyhow a friend of bitcoin cash as it's too confusing for newbies and the average user. They should have chosen a different name and I don't think that it will ever have the same value like the original bitcoin.

same here, as of now i dont really have a care on my bitcoin cash. but im still keeping it to safety, maybe someday it will value more like bitcoin. remember when bitcoin is not that much valuable as it is now, we all regret for not investing before, so you better keep an eye on it too.

michkima

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Quote from: Bingooop on August 17, 2017, 08:59:45 AM

Quote from: freundes on July 31, 2017, 11:42:25 PM

What do you think of Bitcoin Cash?
Do you think it will have the same value as Bitcoin or it will be just another Alt. Coin in the crypto market?

Bitcoin is an automatically generated currency which is pure and simple currency which is greatest among all currency so we can say that it has defeated all the other currency due to its easy access to all the People out here

What do you mean automatic? Huh

It isn't automatic, it is generated through mining using hashing power! That is work right there. That is also why it is called proof of work!
What is automatically generated is proof of stake kind of coins like ETH! There you just have to wait and see if the system picks you.

Bingooop

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Quote from: freundes on July 31, 2017, 11:42:25 PM

What do you think of Bitcoin Cash?
Do you think it will have the same value as Bitcoin or it will be just another Alt. Coin in the crypto market?

Bitcoin is an automatically generated currency which is pure and simple currency which is greatest among all currency so we can say that it has defeated all the other currency due to its easy access to all the People out here

oliver scott

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Bitcoin are much more valuable than bitcoin cash as any of the currency which is been used while on the net then it has much less chance of getting in corruption so bitcoins are great way for making money

deisik

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Quote from: exstasie on August 17, 2017, 03:29:14 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 01:50:45 AM

Quote from: South Park on August 16, 2017, 01:57:08 PM

I do not know why we cannot try to put bitcoin and bitcoin cash in the same ring, that is exactly what the miners want they want to defeat bitcoin with their altcoin, at the moment this is a no contest bitcoin will win in the first seconds of the first round if this was a boxing match.

Indeed, we can place them in the same ring

In fact, this is what we should do exactly and exactly that has already been done by any major exchange out there (Bittrex, Bitfinex, Poloniex, etc). Since both of these coins are traded, the market is going to decide on their fate. Anyway, neither regular Bitcoin nor Bitcoin Cash are used as sort of "cash", they are just speculation vehicles and therefore will compete (are competing) in this division

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Yeah, I think BCH is an altcoin... Bitcoin forks tend to be altcoins. I prefer Bitcoin, but I think we might all be using some superior altcoin someday. Who knows? If something like Segwit2x overtakes Bitcoin, I recall Greg Maxwell saying that he'd rather launch a new altcoin than work on legacy BTC + POW change. Whatever he builds is worth keeping an eye on, should that happen.

Anyway, I think in the world of cryptocurrencies, we should be supportive of free markets. No need to be dogmatic. That's why I hold my Bitcoin Cash, even if I don't think it can compete with Bitcoin in the long run. Because I don't fight the market.

If you don't fight the market, the market starts fighting you

Indeed, we should follow the scent of money, and if Bitcoin Cash takes over regular Bitcoin, there is no reason not to use it if it can give decent profits. But so far we have seen a huge price rise in Bitcoin and essentially nothing of Bitcoin Cash. If things go on like this, I don't think that this Bitcoin forkcoin is ever going to cut it. For most practical intents and purposes, it doesn't offer any advantage before the original Bitcoin, so the only way it could compete with the latter is by offering better profitability. But we haven't seen any yet

Route69

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The only thing that separates Bitcoin Cash from other altcoins is marketing. The fact is that any hard fork is an altcoin. Fair enough, maybe we will all be using some altcoin in the future rather than Bitcoin.

youdacapt

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Quote from: Apened on August 17, 2017, 02:04:24 AM

Quote from: stromae on August 15, 2017, 03:28:15 PM

Quote from: freundes on July 31, 2017, 11:42:25 PM

What do you think of Bitcoin Cash?
Do you think it will have the same value as Bitcoin or it will be just another Alt. Coin in the crypto market?

14 days after your message, we've seen the result. Bitcoin had an absolute victory over bitcoin cash. At the first day, they pumped bitcoin cash, yet it couldn't keep going in that way.

Definitely Bitcoins will not defeat by a bitcoin cash that just created because of fork and still its just an another alt in crptocurrency that has been at its good value or good price because its new to market. BItcoin will continue to rise while bitcoin cash will no longer be a good coin after all when Ethereum and some top coins goes back to their active market .

Some of the recent bch market movements over the past few weeks have begun to show that bch is not a potential coin, most users choose to sell it and go back to bitcoin, unstable blocksize will have a negative effect on bch and for reasons no business support for this coin, I think this Is the right time bch go to the abyss.

exstasie

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Quote from: deisik on August 17, 2017, 01:50:45 AM

Quote from: South Park on August 16, 2017, 01:57:08 PM

I do not know why we cannot try to put bitcoin and bitcoin cash in the same ring, that is exactly what the miners want they want to defeat bitcoin with their altcoin, at the moment this is a no contest bitcoin will win in the first seconds of the first round if this was a boxing match.

Indeed, we can place them in the same ring

In fact, this is what we should do exactly and exactly that has already been done by any major exchange out there (Bittrex, Bitfinex, Poloniex, etc). Since both of these coins are traded, the market is going to decide on their fate. Anyway, neither regular Bitcoin nor Bitcoin Cash are used as sort of "cash", they are just speculation vehicles and therefore will compete (are competing) in this division

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Yeah, I think BCH is an altcoin... Bitcoin forks tend to be altcoins. I prefer Bitcoin, but I think we might all be using some superior altcoin someday. Who knows? If something like Segwit2x overtakes Bitcoin, I recall Greg Maxwell saying that he'd rather launch a new altcoin than work on legacy BTC + POW change. Whatever he builds is worth keeping an eye on, should that happen.

Anyway, I think in the world of cryptocurrencies, we should be supportive of free markets. No need to be dogmatic. That's why I hold my Bitcoin Cash, even if I don't think it can compete with Bitcoin in the long run. Because I don't fight the market.

Helen Holmes

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Bitcoin is not really a bog dif.from cas maybe if theres a diff. It is only few because in terms of value they are almost the same.they are both usefull

Apened

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Quote from: stromae on August 15, 2017, 03:28:15 PM

Quote from: freundes on July 31, 2017, 11:42:25 PM

What do you think of Bitcoin Cash?
Do you think it will have the same value as Bitcoin or it will be just another Alt. Coin in the crypto market?

14 days after your message, we've seen the result. Bitcoin had an absolute victory over bitcoin cash. At the first day, they pumped bitcoin cash, yet it couldn't keep going in that way.

Definitely Bitcoins will not defeat by a bitcoin cash that just created because of fork and still its just an another alt in crptocurrency that has been at its good value or good price because its new to market. BItcoin will continue to rise while bitcoin cash will no longer be a good coin after all when Ethereum and some top coins goes back to their active market .

Topic: Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash - page 20. (Read 17271 times)