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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 162. (Read 378996 times)

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

You're taking the piss now right? You cannot be serious.

Presumably you are addressing the up-post...

Sure I'm serious.  I only rule things out completely when I have a VERY high degree of confidence that I can do so.  I was not involved in the design of Bitcoin and have no way of knowing the details of whoever might have been.

It is fairly common for me to 'know' something to, say, the 99% level but have the remaining 1% be a mish-mash of off-the wall possibilities.  It's my nature.  And it has served me well over the years.

donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
You're taking the piss now right? You cannot be serious.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
Hah just found out about this, I had missed the chat these days.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3n18en/mike_hearn_banned_from_bitcoindev_sept29/

He done got phorked off  Cheesy





Mike is losing it  Cheesy

There are several ways I can think of where Mike might be speaking the truth:

  1) Mike is Satoshi

  2) Mike helped Satoshi with the idea.

  3) Mike somehow 'updated' the whitepaper without it being noticed.

Believe it or not, I don't fully rule out any of these possibilities since I cannot (nor do I think they are very likely for a bunch of different reasons of course.)  It is true that I don't rule out the possibility that Bitcoin itself is some sort of a DARPA-like invention, and it would explain some of the defects and even some of the design criteria.  Again I don't think it is likely though.

When I first read the whitepaper I didn't really notice or comprehend the SPV aspect or the (purported) suggestion/expectation that it was to consolidate to a more centralized form.  I also was left with the impression that validating transfer nodes were to be rewarded rather than simply mining nodes.  I highly doubt that the whitepaper was edited and write off my misunderstandings to poor reading skills and to much skimming.  Whatever the case, it was a highly profitable mistake to have made since Bitcoin would not have been anywhere nearly as interesting to me had I understood these aspects more fully.

Thankfully there are plenty now of people who see the promise of Bitcoin and the dangers to it in a manner which is similar to the way I do.  And they are among the most skilled and influential people in the space.  This gives me enough hope for now.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
...you Gavinistas actually believed you controlled more than ~0% of Bitcoin's socioeconomic consensus...

In your giddiness you've become so unsophisticated that you can't even manage to avoid projection?

What would it take to convince you Team XT are the baddies in this civil war?  Do they need to put skulls on their hats or what?

How about your Dear Leader going completely off the rails and claiming to have invented SPV?

If you aren't on Core's Clue Train at this point, you may be stuck at the station.

And BTW....

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I'm counting on XT-type disloyal opposition to continue providing BTC with the adversity required to further develop its antifragility.

If nobody attacks BTC, the dodo bird "island effect" sets in and we grow too fat/lazy/stupid to fly.   Grin

The lulz are great fun, but there are higher strategic purposes and hidden ideological agendas embedded within my "antics" (which BTW I am glad you enjoy).

Somehow your prose and demeanor remind me of one of my very favorite stories from childhood:


Quote
Nutkin became more and more impertinent—

   "Old Mr. B! Old Mr. B!
   Hickamore, Hackamore, on the King's kitchen door;
   All the King's horses, and all the King's men,
   Couldn't drive Hickamore, Hackamore,
   Off the King's kitchen door."

Nutkin danced up and down like a sunbeam; but still Old Brown said nothing at all.

That part that does not fit is that these dumb-asses are not as stoic as Old Brown.  Thankfully.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Hah just found out about this, I had missed the chat these days.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3n18en/mike_hearn_banned_from_bitcoindev_sept29/

He done got phorked off  Cheesy





Mike is losing it  Cheesy

donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
...you Gavinistas actually believed you controlled more than ~0% of Bitcoin's socioeconomic consensus...

In your giddiness you've become so unsophisticated that you can't even manage to avoid projection?

What next "NO U?"?
jr. member
Activity: 42
Merit: 1
Having a classically-trained nose finely tuned for bogon detection, I pegged that shitlord's "I've done The MathTM; you haven't done The MathTM so shut up and accept Gavinblocks" pseudo-academic browbeating right off the bat.

Awesome stuff! Liked this part the most:
"When the bogon encounters its antiparticle, the cluon, they mutually annihilate each other, releasing magic smoke!" Grin
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
If at least Peter R could switch from his usual charting drivel and spherical cows..... I'm up for new challenges but he keeps repeating the same old bored ideas

Totally.  PR's absurdly reductionist considerations of spherical blockchains never passed my smell test.

Having a classically-trained nose finely tuned for bogon detection, I pegged that shitlord's "I've done The MathTM; you haven't done The MathTM so shut up and accept Gavinblocks" pseudo-academic browbeating right off the bat.



I'm surprised (and a bit galled) smooth, etc. took PR's agenda-based obscurantism seriously, and even gave him a platform at #ScalingBitcoin.  Classic example of the demarcation problem.   Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I don't, I have them very present. I'm aware they will keep going at it until they can't any more.

If at least Peter R could switch from his usual charting drivel and spherical cows..... I'm up for new challenges but he keeps repeating the same old bored ideas

It's strange you still manage to not understand them yet.

 Cheesy

Maybe his "ideas" were novel to you but I'm sorry to break the news that his stuff was 5th graders economics 101 platitudes.

So why don't you understand them?  Huh
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I don't, I have them very present. I'm aware they will keep going at it until they can't any more.

If at least Peter R could switch from his usual charting drivel and spherical cows..... I'm up for new challenges but he keeps repeating the same old bored ideas

It's strange you still manage to not understand them yet.

 Cheesy

Maybe his "ideas" were novel to you but I'm sorry to break the news that his stuff was 5th graders economics 101 platitudes.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I don't, I have them very present. I'm aware they will keep going at it until they can't any more.

If at least Peter R could switch from his usual charting drivel and spherical cows..... I'm up for new challenges but he keeps repeating the same old bored ideas

It's strange you still manage to not understand them yet.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I'm counting on XT-type disloyal opposition to continue providing BTC with the adversity required to further develop its antifragility.

If nobody attacks BTC, the dodo bird "island effect" sets in and we grow too fat/lazy/stupid to fly.   Grin

The lulz are great fun, but there are higher strategic purposes and hidden ideological agendas embedded within my "antics" (which BTW I am glad you enjoy).
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I don't, I have them very present. I'm aware they will keep going at it until they can't any more.

If at least Peter R could switch from his usual charting drivel and spherical cows..... I'm up for new challenges but he keeps repeating the same old bored ideas
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

I don't, I have them very present. I'm aware they will keep going at it until they can't any more.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

Unbelievable. You are still fighting your proxy war against XT.

No, you (like Roger Ver, Mike Hearn, Peter R, etc.) are still fighting for XT's failed governance coup like lost Japanese soldiers.

I, OTOH, am dancing on XT's grave and heckling the mourners.   Cheesy

Thank you for producing such lulzy quantities of self-pitying grief, for the entertainment of the socioeconomic majority.

Now why don't you fork off to Bitcoin Jesus' Island of Misfit Gavinistas forum?  Or Frap.doc's circlejerk?  Or voat/v/bitcoinxt?

You know you are not wanted and have no power here.  Your 'oh poor me' martyr complex is old and busted.  Do something new or GTFO!

I, for one, enjoy your antics immensely.  I do however hope that 'our group' doesn't count these people out prematurely.  They are not stupid and do not want for resources.  I can pretty much promise that they'll be back and will be constantly learning from their mistakes.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Unbelievable. You are still fighting your proxy war against XT.

No, you (like Roger Ver, Mike Hearn, Peter R, etc.) are still fighting for XT's failed governance coup like lost Japanese soldiers.

I, OTOH, am dancing on XT's grave and heckling the mourners.   Cheesy

Thank you for producing such lulzy quantities of self-pitying grief, for the entertainment of the socioeconomic majority.

Now why don't you fork off to Bitcoin Jesus' Island of Misfit Gavinistas forum?  Or Frap.doc's circlejerk?  Or voat/v/bitcoinxt?

You know you are not wanted and have no power here.  Your 'oh poor me' martyr complex is old and busted.  Do something new or GTFO!
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Well I can't call this a surprise even though I had called for a cease of fire. I just can not understand why someone would listen to or support a person who is talking about a takeover of Bitcoin? This should be considered a hostile takeover. XT is just full of controversy.
However, we should shift the focus away from it towards the nexy workshop and 2016. Most of the times when I randomly check the blocks, none of the last few are close to 1 MB (i.e. we are fine for now).
XT should not be considered a hostile take over of Bitcoin. This is very important to understand regardless of what you think of XT. I have already argued extensively on this thread and others why this is not the case. To release an alternative implementation of Bitcoin and to allow the free market and the economic majority to decide on the client through the consensus mechanism of Bitcoin is completely legitimate and should not be considered a take over or a coup. It can only be considered a take over or a coup if the consensus mechanism is circumvented, which is certainly not the case with XT. As long as more then fifty one percent of the mining power supports forking the network then it should be considered as an aspect and part of the process of the Bitcoin consensus which is legitimate, this hypothetical scenario would lead to a split of Bitcoin, however this is how Bitcoin has been designed so that it avoids the tyranny of the majority.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mx7y9/mike_hearn_eventually_governments_would_run_out/

Mikey again confusing wishes with current reality.

"Eventually Governments Would Run Out Of Patience And Shut It Down"

For various reasons, I've been more familiar with Mr. Hearn's position for longer than most of the people reading this.  It is for this reason (and due to my nature) that I was one of the first people to call him out on this forum back when he was widely considered to be some sort of a hero to crypto-currencies.

It is also for this reason that since not long after my initial interest in Bitcoin I've been somewhat fixated on how to deal with TPTB interference.  The idea of mollifying the mainstream corp/gov power structures was never something I saw as 'sustainable' and the strategy would fail immediately if/when Bitcoin is actually needed by humanity.  My focus has been on how to harden crypto against even the most severe of attacks (and we've seen not a glimpse of what types of attacks are possible yet.)

I just gave an outline in another thread which condenses some of my ideas on this for anyone interested:


If there were an update to the POW algo, existing miners would suddenly and abruptly have not jack shit to say about the course of Bitcoin.

Things which are rewarded economically are HIGHLY successful.  More than I and more than probably Satoshi would have guessed.  Unfortunately the only thing which was economically rewarded (in the core system at initial release) was sha256 hashing.  ASIC came at least a year before my own best case estimates.  Now we have absurdities like you pointed out where every transaction costs > 1 daily household energy cost and no clear way out of the maze.

[You might say that the ratio can be improved by somehow getting Bitcoin to be used for every coffee purchase to which I would point out that transactions have been basically free (to end users) for half a decade and Bitcoin has not gotten traction in this role.  I would further say that it is because Bitcoin sucks in this role, and making it get somewhere to par with dedicated exchange currencies would be a bigger re-design than some of the adjustments I suggest.]

Let me explain my 'matrix' and 'path' valuations.  Say there are 10 verifying transfer nodes (a-j).  Say that prior to being mined, a transaction needs to be verified three times before being mined.  Say you want to monetarily reward good distribution.  What you do is statistically prefer the least noted verification paths:

Here's an example of three different paths:

  a->b->c-> mine
  f->a->j-> mine
  d->e->j-> mine

If a particular verification path (e.g., f->a->j-> mine) is continually repeated for many transactions, that path loses weighting.  A miner will likely see the same transaction come in through various paths and can choose the one to insert into the block they are mining.

In my vision of things, a fair fraction of the block reward is distributed to each node who participated in transferring the transactions to the eventual miners thereby producing an economic incentive both to transfer transactions, and to be 'weird' (e.g., not one of 10,000 nodes operating within Amazon's cloud which offers no real value to the network.)

The more complex the system, the more easy it is to game.  The real challenge is to try to make sure that the nodes are legitimately operated by independent players ('Joe Enduser' as much as possible) and are not cheating.  We also want to do this while preserving anonymity as much as possible.  A cheap USB device which only becomes unique in the enduser's hands can achieve this.  If the nodes in the transfer network matrix are randomly making connections to one another and are cross-checking one another (see Kaminski's 'nooter') and comparing notes, liars and cheats can be identified and ejected.

This sounds complicated, but functionally it is actually not a very big shift from what we have in today's Bitcoin.  Most users would not even notice a difference.

Most semi-technical people can appreciated the overhead that keeping such a distribution network matrix healthy would add.  If it becomes necessary to operate Bitcoin under steganographic methods, the overhead of that would dwarf the functional overhead which is why the current 1MB block size is not something I want to see vanish.  Should the internet tighten up with global network filtering and regulations on distributed crypto-currencies, the choices would be basically one of three:

 - Forget about distributed crypto-currencies like Bitcoin as a footnote in history.
 - Comply with any regulations mandated to use them.
 - Adapt crypto-currencies to slip through the cracks and provide economic incentives strong enough to incent people to try.

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