So basically, currently Bitcoinica seems orphaned. For things to go forward, whoever is in control of Bitcoinica LP needs to start acting. However, no party is willing to admit they are in control, probably because that would put them in a very nasty position, legally, and therefore nothing can happen.
Bitcoinica holds assets of course, but the liabilities are greater by far. Someone is responsible, legally, for dealing with this whole mess, but none of the candidates necessarily want to find out who that someone is, so they're not likely to spend too much time looking into it. An external probe may be the only way to get things moving again.
That said... I'm not keen on the idea of litigation around this issue. That cat may be out of the bag already, but I rather wish it weren't so. This may become the first serious legal look into the Bitcoin economy, with all its curiosities, and the case has in one way or another entangled not just Bitcoinica, but the Intersango operators and Mt. Gox as well. This could get really ugly.
Topic: Bitcoinica MtGox account compromised - page 12. (Read 155957 times)
Coins have begun passing through the payout address again. Anyone received anything today? I hope we'll get our share before it's donated to the lawyers.
@genjix : cant you at least refund 50% to all the claim that have been marked as accurate ?
when police man comes in, there will be more people can touch the money. Then there will be another "hack", I guess.
Well. I think I'm done. You guys go right ahead and sue these guys. It's already clear there's really not any significant money left to make payments, so I'm not sure what suing will do for us at this point.
Honestly, the only thing I will support at this point is criminal charges being brought against the individual team members. I am quite sure one or more of them would be found guilty of theft and fraud.
What I'd like to see at this point is Intersango shut down before those funds are looted from those customer accounts. I'd like to see some kind of warning tags applied so that people here know that these guys are responsible for the losses of rather large quantities of customer funds, and should not be trusted with anything.
I'd support a lawsuit that would result in the closure of Intersango in addition to the return of Bitcoinica funds, but unless we're actually going to get rid of the real problems, I don't see the point.
I also presume, that if there IS any money left in the bitcoinica coffers, that WILL be stolen before it can be repaid. I somewhat presume that any theft is really a fiction, providing show and theater for the funds that had already been lost.
I might support a lawsuit, if only to find out WTF happened at MtGox to allow that $40K USD to get transferred SO much faster than any other customer gets funds transferred.
But, nah. It's not going to have any real effect. It's certainly not going to get my money back.
Criminal charges are what we need. The money has been gone for longer than they've been claiming "theft" so I can't see any point in going after what isn't actually there.
Honestly, the only thing I will support at this point is criminal charges being brought against the individual team members. I am quite sure one or more of them would be found guilty of theft and fraud.
What I'd like to see at this point is Intersango shut down before those funds are looted from those customer accounts. I'd like to see some kind of warning tags applied so that people here know that these guys are responsible for the losses of rather large quantities of customer funds, and should not be trusted with anything.
I'd support a lawsuit that would result in the closure of Intersango in addition to the return of Bitcoinica funds, but unless we're actually going to get rid of the real problems, I don't see the point.
I also presume, that if there IS any money left in the bitcoinica coffers, that WILL be stolen before it can be repaid. I somewhat presume that any theft is really a fiction, providing show and theater for the funds that had already been lost.
I might support a lawsuit, if only to find out WTF happened at MtGox to allow that $40K USD to get transferred SO much faster than any other customer gets funds transferred.
But, nah. It's not going to have any real effect. It's certainly not going to get my money back.
Criminal charges are what we need. The money has been gone for longer than they've been claiming "theft" so I can't see any point in going after what isn't actually there.
From the beginning have done everything wrong, lengthening the process and here we are. Now that beginning to reimburse, then steal you a third (=~33%) of the money earmarked to pay claims and everything stops. If stolen you a third , are still intact two-thirds. Pay the remaining =~66% now, and then do whatever you have to do.
It's really irresponsible. First they let the 2 hacks happen, blame each other, then all of them quit and left this chaos to the police. Left behind all the users who used to trust them.
I have invested in Bitcoinica not only because of Zhoutong, but also Intersango, which has the core developer of Bitcoin. I have not registered on Bitcoinica until very recently of the previous hack.
This is really disappointing news. Genjix, I appreciate that you're the last person left here to deal with the users, however, it's still disapointing news.
I have invested in Bitcoinica not only because of Zhoutong, but also Intersango, which has the core developer of Bitcoin. I have not registered on Bitcoinica until very recently of the previous hack.
This is really disappointing news. Genjix, I appreciate that you're the last person left here to deal with the users, however, it's still disapointing news.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
Who fired Tihan??
Who fired Tihan??
I'd assume the investment fund that he represented.
Correct.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
Who fired Tihan??
Who fired Tihan??
I'd assume the investment fund that he represented.
Don't assume.
genjix, could you elaborate??
Thx.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
Who fired Tihan??
Who fired Tihan??
What a joke. Luckily I only invested something like 3 BTC to play around with. I wouldn't be surprised if there were to be another attack...
Hi,
Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update (also in the OP):
Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update (also in the OP):
Quote
Update: here's the facts from my point of view:
- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.
The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.
That's it basically. Just a standstill.
- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.
The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.
That's it basically. Just a standstill.
Needless to say, none of the above names now have access to any wallets. That was needless to ask, wasn't it? To be clear, who NOW only has the keys to any wallets? And where is the cash being stored? And how NOW is able to access that cash? Clearly, it's NOW not any of the above names.
~Bruno~
Quote
Then there was the issue of ownership. Bitcoinica Consultancy was
not yet completely formed. Zhou was an employee. Bitcoinica did not
believe themselves to be in charge.
not yet completely formed. Zhou was an employee. Bitcoinica did not
believe themselves to be in charge.
Ah, so Bitcoinica did not believe themselves to be in charge of themselves (Bitcoinica)? Glad to have that cleared up.
We didn't really expect to be paid back in full for a long time already. Many would be happy if they received anything back at all. A lot of woulds and technicallys here.
Did we read the same email? In the last part of the update there is nothing that says payouts cannot continue.
There has been no statement by Bitcoinica GP that they are officially insolvent. As long as they haven't declared insolvency, they are still obliged to pay back their customers.
It is our money, and they cannot use our money for their legal defense.
There has been no statement by Bitcoinica GP that they are officially insolvent. As long as they haven't declared insolvency, they are still obliged to pay back their customers.
It is our money, and they cannot use our money for their legal defense.
The last part of the update here not the email, quoted by genjix TODAY:
Hi,
Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update (also in the OP):
Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update (also in the OP):
Quote
Update: here's the facts from my point of view:
- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.
The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.
That's it basically. Just a standstill.
- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.
The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.
That's it basically. Just a standstill.
Did we read the same email? In the last part of the update there is nothing that says payouts cannot continue.
There has been no statement by Bitcoinica GP that they are officially insolvent. As long as they haven't declared insolvency, they are still obliged to pay back their customers.
It is our money, and they cannot use our money for their legal defense.
There has been no statement by Bitcoinica GP that they are officially insolvent. As long as they haven't declared insolvency, they are still obliged to pay back their customers.
It is our money, and they cannot use our money for their legal defense.
That's it basically. Just a standstill.
So nothing has changed and still most people have not received anything...
I received it too. This email is over 2 months overdue, and helps not in the least right now. No word about payouts that may still be made now after the Gox hack.
Why would we care about hearing the same story told again and again with zero news to it? Telling it over and over only shows you in an ever increasingly bad light. For a thousandth time there are no news if it isn't about when and if we get our money back!!!!!! So, stop the spamming.
Genjix, if it's you - please tell us if we get anything back now, or not? If yes, transfer as much of the cash as you can asap asking Zhou how he did it and compare who he found legit to receive paybacks. Then use your good judgement. The other system obviously didn't work because noone received shit before another pile was stolen. Do it before there really is nothing left to distribute.
Why would we care about hearing the same story told again and again with zero news to it? Telling it over and over only shows you in an ever increasingly bad light. For a thousandth time there are no news if it isn't about when and if we get our money back!!!!!! So, stop the spamming.
Genjix, if it's you - please tell us if we get anything back now, or not? If yes, transfer as much of the cash as you can asap asking Zhou how he did it and compare who he found legit to receive paybacks. Then use your good judgement. The other system obviously didn't work because noone received shit before another pile was stolen. Do it before there really is nothing left to distribute.
This is not going to happen. Bitcoinica are officially insolvent now and they would get in bigger trouble by giving up their remaining funds before law enforcement can oversee things. They would have to be under administration (UK legal term) wherever their legal jurisdiction is. Delaware, NZ... not sure to be honest.
He already said if you are getting anything back now or not. The answer is "NOT" (look in the last part of the update).
Quote
Dear Bitcoinica customers,
Stuff/useless blabla we have heard over and over again
Stuff/useless blabla we have heard over and over again
I got that too. A few questions spring to my mind immediately:
1. Who are you? "I" in the text above, not signed.
2. With what authority, on whose behalf are you writing this? While I can take an educated guess, many receivers of this mail won't.
3. How can we take this as not yet another stalling technique?
I received it too. This email is over 2 months overdue, and helps not in the least right now. No word about payouts that may still be made now after the Gox hack.
Why would we care about hearing the same story told again and again with zero news to it? Telling it over and over only shows you in an ever increasingly bad light. For a thousandth time there are no news if it isn't about when and if we get our money back!!!!!! So, stop the spamming.
Genjix, if it's you - please tell us if we get anything back now, or not? If yes, transfer as much of the cash as you can asap asking Zhou how he did it and compare who he found legit to receive paybacks. Then use your good judgement. The other system obviously didn't work because noone received shit before another pile was stolen. Do it before there really is nothing left to distribute.
Well, not Patrick, not Zhou, not Tihan... I guess it's genjix.
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