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Topic: Bitcoinica stolen coin returns - page 2. (Read 13110 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
May 22, 2012, 12:07:03 AM
the development of an alt-coin (double blinding signing) which makes such registries more such lunacy more difficult to implement.

Are you suggesting it is possible to combine eCash blinded signature with a decentralized blockchain, somehow? In other words, a fully anonymous p2p currency??
Please, explain a little more if that's the case. Perhaps open a new topic about it...

Yeah, it would be like magic. I mean Bitcoin is like magic sort of, but no double spending and no trail just seems like fairy tales. Obv I'm very interested if someone can explain how this could be possible.

Homomorphic encryption should theoretically be able to do what you are calling a "fairy tales" ... noone said it was easy though.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
May 21, 2012, 11:37:04 PM
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.
Rather, for those delusional enough to deny God's existence, they find it easy to also deny the reality of lawful authority.

herp derp

Sometimes I think the entire fundie luke jr thing is just trolling since you are very intelligent in other ways, but I suppose indoctrination gets to the best of us. 

Also, if God is the source of all authority, God is the source of all violence, which would make him very evil indeed.  Congratulations on justifying the reign of Hitler while you were at it.
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 11:08:37 PM
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.
Rather, for those delusional enough to deny God's existence, they find it easy to also deny the reality of lawful authority.
Armed and violent men in costume does not constitute lawful authority. At least not in my book. If you desire a master like that I'm not going to stop you.
Whether or not one desires reality, does not make it any less real. I dislike every State operating today, but they are still States with legitimate authority.

None of them have legitimate authority because all of them are funded through theft. You find me a Defense Agency that is voluntarily funded and you may have some legitimate authority.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
May 21, 2012, 10:54:06 PM
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.
Rather, for those delusional enough to deny God's existence, they find it easy to also deny the reality of lawful authority.
Armed and violent men in costume does not constitute lawful authority. At least not in my book. If you desire a master like that I'm not going to stop you.
Whether or not one desires reality, does not make it any less real. I dislike every State operating today, but they are still States with legitimate authority.
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 10:48:25 PM
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.
Rather, for those delusional enough to deny God's existence, they find it easy to also deny the reality of lawful authority.

Armed and violent men in costume does not constitute lawful authority. At least not in my book. If you desire a master like that I'm not going to stop you.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
May 21, 2012, 10:43:23 PM
  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases
Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.
Rather, for those delusional enough to deny God's existence, they find it easy to also deny the reality of lawful authority.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician
May 21, 2012, 10:21:44 PM
If he really wanna distribute the coins in the robin hood fashion he'd donate to p2pool.
This way the coins would be evenly and most untraceable distributed and it would make p2pool the largest pool.
+18,000 Cheesy

  • The government does have the authority to investigate and prosecute these cases

Yeah? Where did they get this authority from? Did we agree to this? Did we give our consent?
The State's authority comes from God, who is the source of all authority and life. God's rights are unlimited, and don't require your consent.
For those who believe not in God, lawlessness already exists.

Bitcoins do have value which can be determined just as assuredly as any painting or antique. Stealing something that can be shown to have value makes the thief liable to prosecution and responsible to the party to repay what was stolen, if proven to be the thief.
If I break into a house and steal some jewelry which I later pawn, the police, checking the pawn shops, will collect the stolen property and not provide any compensation to the pawn shop. The pawn shop must get in line to collect if the thief is ever caught. The pawn shop owner isn't charge with any crime related to the theft.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
May 21, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
As much as it pains me to admit I think this idea of tainted coins will lead bitcoin to it's death.

Me too. Someone should file a bug report to the devs.

The solution, of course, is strong anonymity and not the half-baked pseudo-anonymity scheme bitcoin uses at present ... like real cash (who woulda thunk?)
+1
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1105
WalletScrutiny.com
May 21, 2012, 09:41:30 PM
the development of an alt-coin (double blinding signing) which makes such registries more such lunacy more difficult to implement.

Are you suggesting it is possible to combine eCash blinded signature with a decentralized blockchain, somehow? In other words, a fully anonymous p2p currency??
Please, explain a little more if that's the case. Perhaps open a new topic about it...

Yeah, it would be like magic. I mean Bitcoin is like magic sort of, but no double spending and no trail just seems like fairy tales. Obv I'm very interested if someone can explain how this could be possible.

Either it should be possible or possible to proof to be impossible. Either way this aspect as others said before on this thread is of ultimate importance to the overall success of bitcoin.

As much as I would love to see Bitcoins to be ultimately fungible, if I see somebody tries to buy my goods with 100% stolen coins, I will kick his ass and not accept these coins. If his coins are 1/1000th tainted, i would not start an argument. Still if MtGox officially takes these coins like they were only 999/1000, same would I to my customer.

I'm pretty sure that such measures will never make it into the protocol but likewise I'm sure that we will see clients capable of polling blacklists that at least tell the user a history of some of the coins he's about to receive.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1014
Strength in numbers
May 21, 2012, 09:13:57 PM
the development of an alt-coin (double blinding signing) which makes such registries more such lunacy more difficult to implement.

Are you suggesting it is possible to combine eCash blinded signature with a decentralized blockchain, somehow? In other words, a fully anonymous p2p currency??
Please, explain a little more if that's the case. Perhaps open a new topic about it...

Yeah, it would be like magic. I mean Bitcoin is like magic sort of, but no double spending and no trail just seems like fairy tales. Obv I'm very interested if someone can explain how this could be possible.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
May 21, 2012, 06:37:06 PM
As much as it pains me to admit I think this idea of tainted coins will lead bitcoin to it's death.

Me too. Someone should file a bug report to the devs.

The solution, of course, is strong anonymity and not the half-baked pseudo-anonymity scheme bitcoin uses at present ... like real cash (who woulda thunk?)
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 03:06:23 PM
the development of an alt-coin (double blinding signing) which makes such registries more such lunacy more difficult to implement.

Are you suggesting it is possible to combine eCash blinded signature with a decentralized blockchain, somehow? In other words, a fully anonymous p2p currency??
Please, explain a little more if that's the case. Perhaps open a new topic about it...
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
May 21, 2012, 01:31:07 PM
"Bitcoinica caused much harm to the value of Bitcoin. They were targeted and destroyed. As sure as Bitcoinica fell, the value of Bitcoin rose. Profit from devaluation surely destroys a currency." AMEN  Roll Eyes

Who said that again? It sounds so familiar...

hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 12:01:19 PM
Btw we had kings ... for most of our history until we didn't.
And society is worse now than it was with kings. I support monarchy.
Believe me, you don't support it. Anybody with half brain don't support it. And I know what I'm saying.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
May 21, 2012, 11:57:57 AM
Btw we had kings ... for most of our history until we didn't.
And society is worse now than it was with kings. I support monarchy.

I guess as a consequence of cognitive dissonance you now resorted to trolling because I cannot for the life of me take you seriously anymore.

EDIT: btw I'm done with this pointless discussion, in the end Bitcoin is regulated strictly by market consumers and this issue will get sorted out by itself regardless of what any of us individually believe.

And in case anyone wants to get rid of some so called tainted coins, look at my signature.
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 11:56:08 AM
Btw we had kings ... for most of our history until we didn't.
And society is worse now than it was with kings. I support monarchy.

Here you go, Luke.

http://anarcho-monarchism.com/
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1186
May 21, 2012, 11:54:00 AM
#99
Btw we had kings ... for most of our history until we didn't.
And society is worse now than it was with kings. I support monarchy.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
May 21, 2012, 11:52:29 AM
#98
The state doesn't create laws.

People create laws by singing contracts between each other. That's what contracts are = private law between the signatory parties.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that the state has always attempted to make its laws as concrete as the laws of nature. Religious law also attempted this.

I know many in the anarcho-capitalist movement like to talk about private law. And I have as well in the past. But I think we should be calling it something else entirely. The laws of gravity and thermodynamics cannot be broken. Man made laws can be. It seems to me a perversion of the meaning of the word "law" when we talk about what mankind does.

Private rules fits better, you are right.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
May 21, 2012, 11:51:40 AM
#97
A state? There is no body of politics or elections or government laws, there are no lines drawn on a map and there is no involuntary participation. How does my example in any way resemble a state?
Wanna bet on how long it will stay that way, with all the "contracts" you are signing?

Yes, let's not cut out the cancer because it might grow back.. Roll Eyes
In that case, do you care to explain why previous attempts at anarchy have all failed in the long run? Just for my amusement, of course.

What attempts?
Any. Unless you can point to some places with no government, over which no government has influence, and which still exist. I doubt that there are many, and I doubt that any such places that exist can scale up in size.

I thought your point was that there have in fact been attempts and that they failed.

Btw we had kings and slavery for most of our history until we didn't. But it's ok, cognitive dissonance wont allow you to see all the possibilities that I see, it's human nature nothing I or you can do.
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
May 21, 2012, 11:50:06 AM
#96
The state doesn't create laws.

People create laws by singing contracts between each other. That's what contracts are = private law between the signatory parties.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that the state has always attempted to make its laws as concrete as the laws of nature. Religious law also attempted this.

I know many in the anarcho-capitalist movement like to talk about private law. And I have as well in the past. But I think we should be calling it something else entirely. The laws of gravity and thermodynamics cannot be broken. Man made laws can be. It seems to me a perversion of the meaning of the word "law" when we talk about what mankind does.
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