[BitcoinMax.com] Closed - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1330

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 31, 2012, 10:37:33 PM

What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.

Again, this argument goes nowhere. Suppose this is true. Your damages are $0. So what difference does it make? Yes, if they could somehow have guessed correctly when Pirate would default, they could make a ton of money that way and nobody would have been harmed by it. So what?
[/quote]

It's basically a case of the smart PPT operator realising that BS&T was a ponzi scheme and deciding that instead of losing his clients' coins to Pirate's ponzi he would keep them for himself, effectively running his own ponzi. So long as pirate's ponzi closes up shop before the PPT operator runs out of funds it all works out well for the PPT operator.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Bitsky on October 31, 2012, 07:31:26 PM

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 31, 2012, 07:16:21 PM

Quote from: Bitsky on October 30, 2012, 07:12:32 PM

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.

I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?

What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.

Again, this argument goes nowhere. Suppose this is true. Your damages are $0. So what difference does it make? Yes, if they could somehow have guessed correctly when Pirate would default, they could make a ton of money that way and nobody would have been harmed by it. So what?

helloworld

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: Bitsky on October 31, 2012, 07:31:26 PM

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 31, 2012, 07:16:21 PM

Quote from: Bitsky on October 30, 2012, 07:12:32 PM

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.

I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?

What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.

It's easy in hindsight, everyone's an expert on Pirate and Ponzi schemes. But in the thick of it 6 months ago, PPT operators would have taken a huge risk to do what you're suggesting, because if Pirate turned out be legit and returned all the coins, then PPT operators had better make sure they can come up with 7% per week somewhere else otherwise they'd get 100% of the blame not just some of it.

Bitsky

hero member

Activity: 576

Merit: 514

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 31, 2012, 07:16:21 PM

Quote from: Bitsky on October 30, 2012, 07:12:32 PM

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.

I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?

What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

Just to know exactly by whom we were scammed

...and he could probably at least prove at which address he sent BTC and show us his accountancy

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Bitsky on October 30, 2012, 07:12:32 PM

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.

I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?

adamas

legendary

Activity: 1014

Merit: 1003

VIS ET LIBERTAS

Quote from: Ente on October 30, 2012, 06:12:38 PM

Quote from: dbox on October 30, 2012, 05:39:51 PM

We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, ...

Come on, which money did he steal, again?

He did steel my money!

Bitsky

hero member

Activity: 576

Merit: 514

Quote from: Ente on October 30, 2012, 06:12:38 PM

Quote from: dbox on October 30, 2012, 05:39:51 PM

We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.

Unprofessional? Yes.
Scammer? No.
Come on, which money did he steal, again?

Did anyone of you even contact him?

Ente

Actually, I did.
I asked for PGP signed account balances for everybody:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1224833
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1281553

A week ago, I pm'ed him and asked for a confirmation of my account details.
So far, I have not heard anything from him.

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Quote from: dbox on October 30, 2012, 05:39:51 PM

We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.

Unprofessional? Yes.
Scammer? No.
Come on, which money did he steal, again?

Did anyone of you even contact him?

Ente

dbox

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.

btcash

hero member

Activity: 968

Merit: 515

I get a blank page when I try to login.
payb.tc please make the account accesible.

hgmichna

hero member

Activity: 695

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bitsky on October 27, 2012, 06:33:19 PM

So assuming nobody else sent BTC after that, the sum of all unpaid coins should be 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165 (which includes interest).

The interest is something like a phantasy number. I would consider it uninteresting. The money has never existed and will never be paid.

The only interesting figure is the number of bitcoins actually paid into the scam. And even that would only be interesting if part of it could be recovered. I consider even that unlikely, but we are free to hope.

All I remember is that the pirate took in something between Ƀ100,000 and Ƀ200,000, probably closer to the lower figure, but nobody knows for sure.

Bitsky

hero member

Activity: 576

Merit: 514

Quote from: BrightAnarchist on October 27, 2012, 04:37:40 PM

I realize the info is proly around, but no time to find it - can someone tell me exactly how much bitcoinmax had in total in btcst at the time pirate shut down? I've heard it was around 120K BTC.

Quote from: payb.tc on September 13, 2012, 10:47:33 AM

Quote from: zaj on September 13, 2012, 09:22:30 AM

payb.tc are you checking these topics?
are you willing to work together with the people that are going after him to recover our funds ?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shavers-family-contact-made-109126 (Trendon Shavers - Family Contact made)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/going-after-trendon-shavers-pirateat40-btcst-108282 (Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shaverspirate-new-info-108932( Trendon Shavers/Pirate ~ New Info)

sure, if there's anything i can do to help that doesn't require thousands of dollars in lawyers fees or plane tickets, please let me know.

Did you try to contact payb.tc?

Quote from: ThiagoCMC on September 11, 2012, 12:48:28 AM

Hi!

I'm a bit late but, WTF?!
Who wants to buy this shit?!

Code:

Bitcoin Max

Logged in as: ThiagoCMC (User #374 of 373)      Balance: 110.74501165      Next Payment: 7.64140580

Sum total of older accounts: 167728.74239044

Deposit Address: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Account History   |   Earnings Reports   |   Account Settings   |   Change Password   |   Withdraw   |   Log Out 


Account History

Showing latest 4 transactions. Check for new (confirmed) deposits.

Date	Description	Amount	Balance
2012-08-27 21:00	Interest Earned	7.14818129	110.74501165
2012-08-20 21:00	Interest Earned	3.59683036	103.59683036
2012-08-17 05:30	Deposit	95.00000000	100.00000000
2012-08-17 04:00	Deposit	5.00000000	5.00000000

Can you guys believe that I jumped in on day 17?!?! I must be the luckiest guy on this forum... lol

Tks!
Thiago

So assuming nobody else sent BTC after that, the sum of all unpaid coins should be 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165 (which includes interest).

BrightAnarchist

donator

Activity: 853

Merit: 1000

I realize the info is proly around, but no time to find it - can someone tell me exactly how much bitcoinmax had in total in btcst at the time pirate shut down? I've heard it was around 120K BTC.

AngryCatfish

member

Activity: 104

Merit: 10

New info:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shavers-philip-moustakis-united-states-securities-exchange-commission-120759

Progress is slow but it's something.

chsados

hero member

Activity: 662

Merit: 545

Quote from: helloworld on October 25, 2012, 10:54:14 PM

Quote from: chsados on October 25, 2012, 10:45:32 PM

why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

Step one is start a thread for him in the Scam Accusations forum. I see no one has bothered yet, including you.

I'll take your advice and do it now!

pay.btc - i see you have not been active since October 21, 2012, 09:26:44 - (nearly a week) why dont you come in here and explain whats going on - or have you "abandoned ship"?

EDIT: done

helloworld

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: chsados on October 25, 2012, 10:45:32 PM

why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

Step one is start a thread for him in the Scam Accusations forum. I see no one has bothered yet, including you.

chsados

hero member

Activity: 662

Merit: 545

why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

like icebreaker said

Quote

paybtc had no right to deprive me of the opportunity to negotiate or whatever directly with pirate. That's why he deserves a scammer tag.

on top of that....pay.btc hasn't even responded posted in this thread for roughly 2 months (since September 06). On TOP of that he has disabled his website... (without any explanation AFIK)

perhaps pay.btc was scammed just as hard as us lenders...but i don't believe for a second he hasn't made major $$ with his venture and i don't think it is acceptable for him not to keep us posted here in his thread with info.

i only put an initial 10 btc in. probably got under 2 BTC back from interest gathered - that puts me in the hole for <8btc.

I know this is probably negligible to 90%+ of other users.... but pay.btc should take the total amount he MADE from our INITIAL deposits from every user (and subtracting any interest payed ) then dividing that amount by total amount of accounts and send that figure to each user.

/END DRUNKEN RANT

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

dlasher

sr. member

Activity: 467

Merit: 250

All the threads seem to have fallen silent.... so I'm assuming it's just over?

Topic: [BitcoinMax.com] Closed - page 4. (Read 190161 times)