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Topic: [BitcoinMax.com] Closed - page 4. (Read 190275 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
October 31, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.
Again, this argument goes nowhere. Suppose this is true. Your damages are $0. So what difference does it make? Yes, if they could somehow have guessed correctly when Pirate would default, they could make a ton of money that way and nobody would have been harmed by it. So what?
[/quote]

It's basically a case of the smart PPT operator realising that BS&T was a ponzi scheme and deciding that instead of losing his clients' coins to Pirate's ponzi he would keep them for himself, effectively running his own ponzi.  So long as pirate's ponzi closes up shop before the PPT operator runs out of funds it all works out well for the PPT operator.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
October 31, 2012, 09:37:33 PM
Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.
I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?
What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.
Again, this argument goes nowhere. Suppose this is true. Your damages are $0. So what difference does it make? Yes, if they could somehow have guessed correctly when Pirate would default, they could make a ton of money that way and nobody would have been harmed by it. So what?
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
October 31, 2012, 08:41:50 PM
Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.
I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?
What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.


It's easy in hindsight, everyone's an expert on Pirate and Ponzi schemes. But in the thick of it 6 months ago, PPT operators would have taken a huge risk to do what you're suggesting, because if Pirate turned out be legit and returned all the coins, then PPT operators had better make sure they can come up with 7% per week somewhere else otherwise they'd get 100% of the blame not just some of it.
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 514
October 31, 2012, 06:31:26 PM
Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.
I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?
What if the PPT decided to invest the coins somewhere else? Most investors left their interest in the PPT.
Now that Pirate defaulted a malicious PPT could keep the coins, knowing that Pirate will be blamed for the loss, and get away relatively easy.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
October 31, 2012, 06:29:21 PM
Just to know exactly by whom we were scammed Smiley
...and he could probably at least prove at which address he sent BTC and show us his accountancy
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
October 31, 2012, 06:16:21 PM
Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.
I don't see where this argument goes though. If you pay someone to do something knowing that they have no way to prove whether they did it or not, how can you later complain that they can't prove they did it? And why would it matter anyway since the consequences are the same -- the money is lost -- either way?
legendary
Activity: 1014
Merit: 1003
VIS ET LIBERTAS
October 31, 2012, 01:15:03 AM
We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, ...

Come on, which money did he steal, again?
He did steel my money!
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 514
October 30, 2012, 06:12:32 PM
We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.

Unprofessional? Yes.
Scammer? No.
Come on, which money did he steal, again?

Did anyone of you even contact him?

Ente
Actually, I did.
I asked for PGP signed account balances for everybody:
 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1224833
 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1281553

A week ago, I pm'ed him and asked for a confirmation of my account details.
So far, I have not heard anything from him.

Also, in another thread someone argued that we can't really be sure if every PPT forwarded all coins to Pirate, or used some/all for their own investment plans.
I'm not saying payb.tc did, but that argument has been going around in my head since then because it would open up another can of worms.
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
October 30, 2012, 05:12:38 PM
We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.

Unprofessional? Yes.
Scammer? No.
Come on, which money did he steal, again?

Did anyone of you even contact him?

Ente
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
October 30, 2012, 04:39:51 PM
We should consider payb.tc scammer for that reason, he should keep the website fully functional until the matter is clarified. Imporper communication and no funds means scam.
hero member
Activity: 968
Merit: 515
October 28, 2012, 04:07:11 PM
I get a blank page when I try to login.
payb.tc please make the account accesible.
hero member
Activity: 695
Merit: 500
October 28, 2012, 10:43:58 AM
So assuming nobody else sent BTC after that, the sum of all unpaid coins should be 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165 (which includes interest).

The interest is something like a phantasy number. I would consider it uninteresting. The money has never existed and will never be paid.

The only interesting figure is the number of bitcoins actually paid into the scam. And even that would only be interesting if part of it could be recovered. I consider even that unlikely, but we are free to hope.

All I remember is that the pirate took in something between Ƀ100,000 and Ƀ200,000, probably closer to the lower figure, but nobody knows for sure.
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 514
October 27, 2012, 05:33:19 PM
I realize the info is proly around, but no time to find it - can someone tell me exactly how much bitcoinmax had in total in btcst at the time pirate shut down? I've heard it was around 120K BTC.

payb.tc are you checking these topics?
are you willing to work together with the people that are going after him to recover our funds ?


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shavers-family-contact-made-109126 (Trendon Shavers - Family Contact made)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/going-after-trendon-shavers-pirateat40-btcst-108282 (Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trendon-shaverspirate-new-info-108932( Trendon Shavers/Pirate ~ New Info)



sure, if there's anything i can do to help that doesn't require thousands of dollars in lawyers fees or plane tickets, please let me know.
Did you try to contact payb.tc?

Hi!

 I'm a bit late but, WTF?!
 Who wants to buy this shit?!

Code:
Bitcoin Max

Logged in as: ThiagoCMC (User #374 of 373)      Balance: 110.74501165      Next Payment: 7.64140580

Sum total of older accounts: 167728.74239044

Deposit Address: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Account History   |   Earnings Reports   |   Account Settings   |   Change Password   |   Withdraw   |   Log Out


Account History

Showing latest 4 transactions. Check for new (confirmed) deposits.

Date Description Amount Balance
2012-08-27 21:00 Interest Earned 7.14818129 110.74501165
2012-08-20 21:00 Interest Earned 3.59683036 103.59683036
2012-08-17 05:30 Deposit 95.00000000 100.00000000
2012-08-17 04:00 Deposit 5.00000000 5.00000000

 Can you guys believe that I jumped in on day 17?!?! I must be the luckiest guy on this forum...  lol

Tks!
Thiago
So assuming nobody else sent BTC after that, the sum of all unpaid coins should be 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165 (which includes interest).
donator
Activity: 853
Merit: 1000
October 27, 2012, 03:37:40 PM
I realize the info is proly around, but no time to find it - can someone tell me exactly how much bitcoinmax had in total in btcst at the time pirate shut down? I've heard it was around 120K BTC.
member
Activity: 104
Merit: 10
hero member
Activity: 662
Merit: 545
October 26, 2012, 10:36:10 AM
why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

Step one is start a thread for him in the Scam Accusations forum. I see no one has bothered yet, including you.


I'll take your advice and do it now!

pay.btc - i see you have not been active since     October 21, 2012, 09:26:44  - (nearly a week) why dont you come in here and explain whats going on - or have you "abandoned ship"?

EDIT: done
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
October 25, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

Step one is start a thread for him in the Scam Accusations forum. I see no one has bothered yet, including you.
hero member
Activity: 662
Merit: 545
October 25, 2012, 09:45:32 PM
why no scammer tag to pay.btc?

like icebreaker said
Quote
paybtc had no right to deprive me of the opportunity to negotiate or whatever directly with pirate.  That's why he deserves a scammer tag.

on top of that....pay.btc hasn't even responded posted in this thread for roughly 2 months (since September 06).  On TOP of that he has disabled his website... (without any explanation AFIK)

perhaps pay.btc was scammed just as hard as us lenders...but i don't believe for a second he hasn't made major $$ with his venture and i don't think it is acceptable for him not to keep us posted here in his thread with info.

i only put an initial 10 btc in.  probably got under 2 BTC back from interest gathered - that puts me in the hole for <8btc.

I know this is probably negligible to 90%+ of other users.... but pay.btc should take the total amount he MADE from our INITIAL deposits from every user (and subtracting any interest payed ) then dividing that amount by total amount of accounts and send that figure to each user.

/END DRUNKEN RANT
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3
October 19, 2012, 10:21:35 PM
sr. member
Activity: 467
Merit: 250
October 19, 2012, 10:14:18 PM


All the threads seem to have fallen silent.... so I'm assuming it's just over?

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