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hgmichna

hero member

Activity: 695

Merit: 500

Quote from: Ente on October 17, 2012, 11:43:11 AM

Well.. Who didn't know the risk?

Gullible, inexperienced, possibly simple-minded investors.

Quote from: Ente on October 17, 2012, 11:43:11 AM

You want to argue that payb.tc knew more than the users investing through him? That he knowingly kept things secret?

You are saying it. I'm not Joel, but I would answer yes.

payb.tc certainly was able to understand these things. Without such understanding he would not have been able to run his operation, which requires some understanding and some intelligence. And he operated in the face of relentless explanations and warnings from a range of knowledgeable people.

The same is true for all feeder funds.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Ente on October 17, 2012, 11:43:11 AM

Well.. Who didn't know the risk?
You want to argue that payb.tc knew more than the users investing through him? That he knowingly kept things secret?

The issue is not whether payb.tc ripped off the users investing through him. You are responding to an argument that nobody is making.

Quote

Nah. He was scammed the same as his users. No idea why people are going after him now? Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Did you read the message you are responding to. I explained why people are going after him.

Quote

The talk of giving him a scammer tag is not because he didn't do what he said he would do. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is because he paid Pirate to make his customers the recipient of fraudulent transfers. Essentially, the argument is that he knowingly (or in reckless disregard for the near certainty) paid Pirate to operate a scam.

(You are welcome to disagree with this argument. I disagree with it. But you are not welcome to ignore it or misrepresent it, which is what it seems you are doing here.)

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 17, 2012, 11:15:51 AM

Quote from: IveBeenBit on October 17, 2012, 10:55:06 AM

Payb.tc's profits are irrelevant. He said he would pay 6.9% per week, and if Pirate defaulted, then he would also default. He stuck to his end of the deal. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is ridonkulous. This thread is 120 pages long. The first 90ish pages are post after post of people praising him for his interface and service. When Pirate folded, so did payb.tc, just like he promised.

The talk of giving him a scammer tag is not because he didn't do what he said he would do. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is because he paid Pirate to make his customers the recipient of fraudulent transfers. Essentially, the argument is that he knowingly (or in reckless disregard for the near certainty) paid Pirate to operate a scam.

Well.. Who didn't know the risk?
You want to argue that payb.tc knew more than the users investing through him? That he knowingly kept things secret?
Nah. He was scammed the same as his users. No idea why people are going after him now? Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Ente

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: IveBeenBit on October 17, 2012, 10:55:06 AM

Payb.tc's profits are irrelevant. He said he would pay 6.9% per week, and if Pirate defaulted, then he would also default. He stuck to his end of the deal. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is ridonkulous. This thread is 120 pages long. The first 90ish pages are post after post of people praising him for his interface and service. When Pirate folded, so did payb.tc, just like he promised.

The talk of giving him a scammer tag is not because he didn't do what he said he would do. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is because he paid Pirate to make his customers the recipient of fraudulent transfers. Essentially, the argument is that he knowingly (or in reckless disregard for the near certainty) paid Pirate to operate a scam.

IveBeenBit

sr. member

Activity: 449

Merit: 250

Payb.tc's profits are irrelevant. He said he would pay 6.9% per week, and if Pirate defaulted, then he would also default. He stuck to his end of the deal. The talk of giving him a scammer tag is ridonkulous. This thread is 120 pages long. The first 90ish pages are post after post of people praising him for his interface and service. When Pirate folded, so did payb.tc, just like he promised.

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Turbor on October 17, 2012, 09:14:20 AM

Quote from: Shadow383 on October 16, 2012, 11:34:10 PM

Quote from: dbox on October 13, 2012, 06:47:55 AM

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

From the info the investigation turned up (and based on things that imsaguy and a few others said at the time) paybtc was getting more than 7%/Week (most likely 7.7%/Week).

Ergo, from the size of the fund at collapse (~150k BTC) he was getting ~1k BTC per week of stolen funds from the ponzi scheme.

He made some coins with his service, so did others. Does that make him a scammer ? He never made a promise he could not keep. It was very clear that if Pirate defaults all the coins are gone. Simple as that.

Edit: Imsa and the "few others" should keep their mouth shut. Some were backing the real scammer long after it was clear that he fucked everybody over. Not to speak about their profit...

He could only have made some coins on withdrawals. From how ponzis and humans in general work, I guess there were not many withdrawals to begin with.
How exactly was his cut calculated?
- What % interest did he receive from Pirate? 7.7% it was stated?
- What % interest did users receive? 7%?

--> His profit probably was much lower than the total circulating/paper bitcoins suggest..

Ente

Turbor

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Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

BitMinter

Quote from: Shadow383 on October 16, 2012, 11:34:10 PM

Quote from: dbox on October 13, 2012, 06:47:55 AM

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

From the info the investigation turned up (and based on things that imsaguy and a few others said at the time) paybtc was getting more than 7%/Week (most likely 7.7%/Week).

Ergo, from the size of the fund at collapse (~150k BTC) he was getting ~1k BTC per week of stolen funds from the ponzi scheme.

He made some coins with his service, so did others. Does that make him a scammer ? He never made a promise he could not keep. It was very clear that if Pirate defaults all the coins are gone. Simple as that.

Edit: Imsa and the "few others" should keep their mouth shut. Some were backing the real scammer long after it was clear that he fucked everybody over. Not to speak about their profit...

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Shadow383 on October 16, 2012, 11:34:10 PM

Quote from: dbox on October 13, 2012, 06:47:55 AM

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

From the info the investigation turned up (and based on things that imsaguy and a few others said at the time) paybtc was getting more than 7%/Week (most likely 7.7%/Week).

Ergo, from the size of the fund at collapse (~150k BTC) he was getting ~1k BTC per week of stolen funds from the ponzi scheme.

"getting" implying that he would have gotten anything out in the first place. Its not like pirate paid out weeks ago, and payb.tc refused to pass it on or something..

Ente

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: dbox on October 13, 2012, 06:47:55 AM

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

From the info the investigation turned up (and based on things that imsaguy and a few others said at the time) paybtc was getting more than 7%/Week (most likely 7.7%/Week).

Ergo, from the size of the fund at collapse (~150k BTC) he was getting ~1k BTC per week of stolen funds from the ponzi scheme.

hgmichna

hero member

Activity: 695

Merit: 500

Quote from: dbox on October 13, 2012, 06:47:55 AM

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

Very likely, but difficult to prove. Of course they now all say they didn't know.

I personally believe that honest pass-through operators who really had no clue are very few and very far between. Consider that the Ponzi scheme had been exposed early on here in the forums, so actually everybody knew it was a scam. Some "investors" just did not want to know, because the pirate's version fulfilled their wishes so easily.

But somebody who is able to establish and operate a feeder fund can hardly be that ignorant.

dbox

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Is there any possibility that (some of) PPT were actually acomplices in this whole pirate scam thing? I wonder if paybtc got some share of bitcoins. The lack of information and activity regarding this matter is very suspicious.

DutchBrat

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

There is another Fri, Oct 12 in how many years? ??

dbox

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

pirateatourcoins Grin

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: lile on October 12, 2012, 11:13:35 AM

Quote from: jasinlee on October 12, 2012, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: lile on October 12, 2012, 10:16:50 AM

Quote from: zaj on October 12, 2012, 09:30:53 AM

soo.. the 12th and nothing happened Cheesy

surprise

and what exactly was supposed to happen today?

Supposed paybacks by pirate.

Quote

A: As of today the earliest estimated time that coins can begin moving is Friday, Oct 12th. I can only keep you updated on this date as I have more information.

Don't know about that...

He is never going to payback so it doesnt even matter.

lile

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Quote from: jasinlee on October 12, 2012, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: lile on October 12, 2012, 10:16:50 AM

Quote from: zaj on October 12, 2012, 09:30:53 AM

soo.. the 12th and nothing happened Cheesy

surprise

and what exactly was supposed to happen today?

Supposed paybacks by pirate.

Quote

A: As of today the earliest estimated time that coins can begin moving is Friday, Oct 12th. I can only keep you updated on this date as I have more information.

Don't know about that...

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: lile on October 12, 2012, 10:16:50 AM

Quote from: zaj on October 12, 2012, 09:30:53 AM

soo.. the 12th and nothing happened Cheesy

surprise

and what exactly was supposed to happen today?

Supposed paybacks by pirate.

lile

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Quote from: zaj on October 12, 2012, 09:30:53 AM

soo.. the 12th and nothing happened Cheesy

surprise

and what exactly was supposed to happen today?

zaj

member

Activity: 103

Merit: 10

soo.. the 12th and nothing happened Cheesy

surprise

strello

full member

Activity: 234

Merit: 101

The login page has been down since 25th September.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1218658

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Phraust on October 06, 2012, 01:20:38 AM

Anyone else getting a 500 error when they try to login? Huh

Login is dead for me too. No error here, just a blank page.

Ente

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