Topic: Bitcoinorama: Shill for KNC? Hardware is too full of sock puppets - page 5. (Read 10173 times)

You make my dick so hard when you whisper Josh in my ear. 

Yes I did notice the love story between you and BFL, Josh must miss you so much when you do not post something about them hahahahahha

Entirely disagree.
Bitcoinorama put more effort into KnC than Cypherdoc has into HalfFast.

The latter gets paid, but the former does not.

IMO, it should be reversed.

One does due diligence in not only protecting his own investment, but the bitcoin community.
The other gets paid to spew nonsense and sound more like Inaba every day.

Shill?
Advocate, for sure.

No, the assumption of '60 days' is false, that's down to the consumer to call their issuing bank and determine their level of protection. In the UK it's six years. That doesn't mean I can call fraud as and when I like and get free product and money, it means I'm sufficiently protected. Some card companies state third party payment methods like Paypal and Amazon negate this, so check with your card issuer. A guy y'day stated that a US Discover card carried him 180 days. It's depends on your card issuing bank, and the type of card you have.


You mean to fraudulently deceive a company into believing you're making a sale with no interest to purchase? You know full well about this, as you did it and it's illegal, yet you still try and justify your action in the Hashfast thread as acceptable;


That said I don't believe you fully appreciated the legality stipulated below, but the fact you still try and debate it in your thread as acceptable when you are a representative of a company is madness.

 Article 2, the 'Sales of Goods' in The Uniform Commercial Code.

"A contract of sale is a legal contract an exchange of goods, services or property to be exchanged from seller (or vendor) to buyer (or purchaser) for an agreed upon value in money (or money equivalent) paid or the promise to pay same. It is a specific type of legal contract."



This is FUD, you're trying to justify Hashfast's reasoning for accepting BTC payment, when the only reason they won't accept other forms of secure payment is because they don't want to deal with the aggro of appeasing issuing banks, card payment processors or Paypal's verification demands and sales terms. Any US company can do this, it should be a given, especially in the climate of people loosing monies invested here.

It may take the approval of the payment processors, but the real reason comes down to the fact Hashfast want to raise cash before Cointerra, or X-crowd, they know they are in a desperate race for a limited supply of cautious funding. This has nothing to do with  BTC (liquidity, not velocity!??), and everything to do with you earning your commission, by luring people into a deal that could easily be safer for them to participate in further compounded by the promise to double their hashrate if delayed, by enticing them to forgo common sense and act on impulse, whilst removing the ability to request a refund until way after the delivery date, at which point if you fail, who's getting refunded, and how?

Who's taking liability for all the monies spent? Fact is they're is no guaranteed refund in case of failure to deliver in a reasonable amount of time. Like KnC, and Cointerra the chips have to work first time, this is not the standard iterative process in designing IC components, only unlike KnC there is no recourse however you choose to spin it, and that matters to me.

Call me a KnC fanboy if you like, but I dismissed many deals before I saw one that was safe and acceptable by my own personal criteria. If you are claiming you can match on technical ability and deliver on time, then back it up with a secured payment method and stop promising people what you think they want to hear. To their credit KnC invited who ever they wanted around an open table to ask them whatever they liked and to have what ever proof they required without an NDA.

I don't go into threads looking for rows, but I will call BS when I see it.

I think proposing that CC is bad for the customer is going to be a tough sell Cypher...

I personally prefer using BTC for philosophical reasons, but it is a currency currently based on trust (because it is "cash for the internet").  Cash is pretty risky for any pre-buy.

I am hoping as the BTC vendor landscape matures, more trustworthy players will enter.

The right course of action should be what gas stations across the USA had been doing for years... i.e. a price for the product in BTC and a price for the hardware using a CC.  CC price should be higher to reflect the risk to the company, and BTC cost should be lower to reflect the cost to the consumer.  If refunds are offered, it would be in the currency utilized.

i still do not necessarily agree that using cc's is the best way to go for the consumer.

i believe that cc's encourages an intake of greater amounts of USD to fund these companies and their pre-orders than do restricting payments to BTC.  consider the situation of a malicious company that simply wants to take in as many USD's early on by adopting a payment strategy that facilitates this, drag out a delivery date to "expire" as many of the 60 day guarantees that the cc providers give, and then run with the money.  that's not good.

consider the scenario where the company is legit but then gets a false picture of what the demand for their product is simply b/c there are ppl out there wanting to reserve an order as a put option in case they change their minds.  that's not good either in that the volatility of that order book can cause a company to severely miss their targeted assumptions and result in BK resulting in loss of your money and long lasting support.

at least for a BTC accepting company, the significantly dampened volatility of their order book can be counted on when planning out their production strategy.  this is not an insignificant point.  it also helps the BTC economy by increasing money velocity thru the system.  and in the event of a scam or BK, at least the consumer hasn't lost tax or debt repayment USD's.

Yah, sorry about that. Just the irony that the journalist duped over a scammy Bitcoin story, was the same guy turning an interest to Bitcoin regulation and subpoenas. Thought it was relevant, turned into spambot. I'll knock it on the head. Peace.

You have brought up another point, that people need to reply ONLY WITH THE RELEVANT part of the quote and not take more real estate than they need.     I do not need to see that same pic, quoted 20 times filling an entire page (usually I do not need to see the pic the first time either unless it is hardware OR VICUS showing that YIFU had mined with our machines for a month before sending them).   I really want to know what is going on with all these new vendors and it takes hours to read through the crap.

If by the definition you presented... "i.e. a promoter" I have to confess that I am shill for Bitfury, HashFash, and Avalon (shivver).

I only read half this post, and I'm sorry to say...wait for it...+1.

I was rather critical of KnC and Bitcoinorama at the beginning, but not so much now. But, please keep a watchful eye on them, acting in the most professional manner as possible, while I go and stick it up BFL's ass.  

Oh, and BTW, did I read somewhere that some outfit has chips tied up in custom?

Meh, not sure.. but copying and pasting the same WSJ article in about every thread yesterday or whenever it was recently was annoying as hell.. 

Just another shill, same with cypherdock or whatever his name is, bitcoinorama posts as if it's his 24/7 job.

Sensible reply.   You touched on my point.   I WANT to read EVERYTHING in every hardware thread.   I do not want it polluted with long double spaced comments that have an agenda.   I would rather have someone ATTACK and then get to read the response of the SELLER (KnC or AM or Hashfast etc.).   I also hate all the pictures and gifs that make it 292 pages to read when there is really only 30 pages of info.

Also I do tend to get drawn into a slanging match when provoked or I see intentional FUD being spread about something I know is not the case, and regardless of the sincerity of any intention that's clearly a dumb move on my part. Whatever if you think my intentions are nefarious then double your research, cross your 't's' and dot you 'i's', at least I can be held accountable for encouraging a better research work ethic on that part.

It's astounding how little research people do before investing large sums, and this isn't limited to a few thousand here and there. I've seen biiig money spent stupidly. I cannot believe people are as trusting as try have been on this forum.

Yifu aside, he had a proven product and I really, really liked the guy. Very charismatic, but he is definitely not being honest currently, and the only way to encourage him is to educate yourself on what legal avenues exist.

In any case, truly I'm not a sock puppet or a shill, but I do have a lot of time on my hands currently and for good reason, otherwise I'd be out on my bike all day!

There had been a high influx of new forum members in that period of time so it's most likely just a coincidence and the long hours spent on this forum can be explained somewhat. Doubt that he's a shill but rather more interested in ensuring a return in his investment in KNC.

Everyone has a bias so you should simply think for yourself and do a bit more research to inform yourself of the market and the potential pitfalls without relying too much on a few highly opinionated members on BT.

Here are my thoughts... get a life. Seriously. Unless you're someone else's sock puppet, of course. I have yet to see anyone (myself included) posting as much useful information as Bitcoinorama in this section of the forums. If you have anything against Bitcoinorama use PM's or prove him wrong by showing you're smarter and more informed than him (can I laugh now? ).

Listen, I'm not saying that you are for certain a shill. All I said was that it was likely, or a better term would be that it is a possibility.

I agree with you ordering with a CC provides more consumer protection than ordering with Bitcoins (duh). I just thought it was ironic that you post something like that where knc is determined as the winner, compared to your previous posting history.

After reading all of your posts for months, is it really that hard to see why someone maybe would think you are a shill?

Dude show me another company that offers a secure payment?

It's open to every western country. There's a reason why they don't bother and it's risk on the side of the people behind the company.

BFL are majorly regretting this, fact is though there are threads and thread here of people claiming they can't have a refund, because Butterfly Labs told them not to.

I'll remove the KnC bit if you think it's a bit sleezy, but whatever that's where my research took me.

I should actually add Bitfury to it as some of his distros now do accept card, but I need to read more into that there.

Of course I'm going to have most knowledge on what I've dedicated most time to.

Do you honestly think I would have known, or had any interest in Swedish Consumer Law six months back?!!

All I knew was they had hot women and expensive beer!

For the edification of the readers I'm going to repost something I wrote last year. Since that time I also came across the information that the courts in other states than Nevada, e.g. California, Connecticut (and some others) concurred with upheld this definition even though it wasn't directly pertaining to their jurisdiction and to the "card games".

Agreed. I like a lot of Bitcoinorama's posts and do think he means well. He is biased towards KncMiner, but I have found a lot of his posts to be helpful. He's definitely a proponent of KncMiner, but I don't think he's a shill.

Also, the jury is still out on KncMiner but they haven't screwed over the community yet unlike BFL and Avalon. I'm very interested to see if Knc can deliver on their promises...