Topic: Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place. - page 5. (Read 1861 times)

Hehe, not at all, don't get me wrong. SwC has been very generous and you did a fantastic job organizing all this sponsoring. I am happy with the way the series is all in all, but the trend shows some decline in participants and how do you get more people to join and stay around ? Money Money always works.

But there is the "Quadratur des Kreises", where you need to make everyone happy with low entry fees - low entry fees to keep attracting new players. And then the winners also want to win more than their entry fee^^ So with the "fixed" sponsoring we get from SwC, we would need to up the fees we pay and I am fine with that.

I think this series works with a minimum of 18 regular players, but anything lower than that probably not longterm. And then again, the series doesn't work with like 100 regular participants imo unless you make big changes (to internal point structure mainly). So there needs to be some equilibrium.


Good news. Here needs to be some rule then as well, like minimum of 6/8 tournaments played or whatever.

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My proposal

- Entry fee: 1300
- 100 chips go to Grand Final
- 200 chips go to lottery
- there will be a small final (sponsored by SwC ?) for all participants that joined minimum 6/8 tournaments
- every participant is eligible for lottery, tickets are based on # of participations and points accumulated

For the series #2, this would transfer to:

- 14,500 chips additional prize money for Grand Final
- eligible for small final: tyKiwanuka, SyGambler, Improved, Trofo, BitcoinGirlClub, morvillz7z, jayce (too few, but should get better with new structure then)
- 29,000 chips for the lottery and the following number of tickets per user:

- per every 10k chips, one prize is created for the lottery, so 29k chips = 3 prizes á 9666 chips, only one prize per user max.
- the overall prize money for Grand Final would be a bit lower then, but these players can still get prize from lottery

In regards to the series structure. What if we went to 6 or 7 qualifiers. I personally don't mind if the series runs over the course of 2 months but could understand if others feel it's stretched out to long.

I'm good with the lottery. If we know that there will be a runners up tournament how big does this need to be. I always just think of keeping entry low. Is 1250 chips enough with 50 going to the lottery?

Either way let me know and I'll be there.

SwC definitely has much better poker client than Sportsbet, especially if you take into account Sportsbet availability from some countries.

Definitely one tournament per week, more than that and I feel a lot of us would be unable to attend.

You don't have to limit series with time (1 month or 2). I personally don't care how long the series will run. Longer it runs we will have better prizes. I would talk with SwC and ask them to offer some sponsorship depending on length of the series. For me minimum would be maybe 4 tournaments, less than that really doesn't make sense and maximum would be maybe 10 tournaments. This would stretch our series a lot but if we get a nice extra bonus for the final table (and runners up table) I would be more than ok with it.

Points/leaderboard structure is OK for me as it is, but I understand the appeal of participation point as well. If that one extra point for participation means we will have few more players I would adapt it without second thoughts. First place gets fixed amount of points (10 or max 15) and then after place 10 you just award a single point to all that participated. Bonus from this point structure is that weakly tournaments would probably have bigger participation and consequently bigger rewards.

Also couldn't join this from the uk. Redirects to a no poker version. I don't know what other countries are affected.

Okay guys, sorry for me being "quiet" - I have now read through all the posts and I appreciate all the thoughts you are putting into this - the only downside here... There is no real "consensus" as to how the new serious should look like.

@tyKiwanuka I dont think our prizes are bad tbh and I had talks with sportsbet, they weren't too interested plus their software sucks big time indeed...

Some quick thoughts here:

- I also think/thought one tournament per week may be a nicer option BUT... would 4 tournaments per series be ideal? Probably not... Would it be ideal to have a series running over 2 months to make it 8 tournaments? Probably not... Another thing - with only 4 tournaments per series and current buy-in structure, well, I am not sure how happy SwC will be about sponsoring 0.05 BTC for the Grand Final

- Don't worry about runners-up tournament - there will be one next time, I will take care of that

- Do you think we really need to adapt the current points/leaderboard structure?

- I have thought about it and I really didn't come up with a solution regarding those extra chips BUT... I will just keep collecting the chips, no problem. All regulars will receive passwords in advance

@tyKiwanuka I LOVE that lottery idea and since I just stated I will keep collecting the extra chips, I don't mind collecting these funds. Question: Would you guys be okay with paying 300 extra chips and take aside 100 for the lottery or would you prefer deducting 100 chips from the Grand Final prize pool?

I too think, that it will be way more players, hundreds maybe.

Are you sure that this jersey is like a real on-field Watford jersey ? I can't imagine that tbh They just say "shirt" and I think it's just some basic T-shirt with some Watford logo.

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For our poker series Sportsbet would be the better place to play I think in terms of some sponsoring and also attracting new/more players. They are very generous with all their promotions etc. and they have quite a huge customer base and could promote us in their BTT thread etc. But their poker software is just very annoying and I don't enjoy playing there at all unfortunately.

I am expecting much more players, this is on done on Sportsbet and they have a lot of high rollers there, 2 mBTC is nothing for most of them. After all the prize is big and for that 20$ you get a free Watford FC shirt which costs around 100$ I guess. Of course if you don't mind giving an address and phone number.

Last time they had this tournament it was a freeroll and there was 500 participants.

Anyway, I'll take my shot at the prize and collect my free jersey at least.

There are 12 entrants already currently, and I expect something in this range, 19-27 players, when the tournament will start(there is no late registration there). The prize structure for this range is as following:



It's very tempting to take part, and maybe I will(my balance on Sportsbet is several times higher than the buy-in, 2k chips), but normally I don't risk almost $20 at once because it is far greater than what I can afford to lose to gambling in one day. Well, maybe once in a year I can make an exception, we'll see.

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As for the format of our series, I will accept any, just to play with you guys once again. To me, our series is not about money. I was out on the 4th place in the latest Grand Finale(with 3 places paid), and I was happy. I mean, it was unexpected, to tell the truth, I should have been frustrated, but I wasn't. That's a fact. I told my wife that the 4th place among 9 finalists, all of whom were good players, was a good achievement. And she believed me because she saw how happy I was.

i'll be there for sure. i'm anticipating a huge overlay, maybe 0.8 BTC or more, considering the weekly freeroll only draws 200 runners. i can't really take delivery on a jersey (i'm in the states, shhh!) but oh well. the prize pool is fat enough on its own.


there's no way anything will happen with the series by this weekend anyway---next weekend at the earliest.

i hope we can hammer out some of these league/format decisions in the next few days so we're all set for the 21st.

Don't know if you guys seen it but Steve has been a gentlemen and invited all of us to very nice tournament on Sportsbet. It is this Sunday evening 2 hours later then our usual games. 2 mBTC buy in and 1 BTC in prizes + Watford FC jersey for basically all registered players if I got it correct. That is an offer I can't pass by and probably most of you as well. I propose to give efi some more time to arrange everything with SwC and start our series next week so we can give our best on this one this week. Linking par of the original post below, and hope to see all our regulars.

+1. do it up front and it's not an issue. i'm just worried the people who might only play ~2-4 games won't play at all if we do it up front.

i like the idea of a random incentive, something to play towards even if you're not in contention, kinda like a bad beat jackpot or something.


i'm on board with this. it would probably net a ~0.015+ BTC prize pool.


it's not a big deal for me if we weight the top places. we just have to do it right.

the one positive thing about a system like that is it probably reduces the "points bubble" effect, when everyone gets all nitty around places 11-12.


they're too cool for bitcointalk.

I would be fine with buy in but for some people that wouldnt be any different from the regular tournament and might shut them off. Plus it would be hard to get SWC to sponsor this ( or someone to sponsor this but is unlikely to happen )



Sounds good, extra 100 chips wont hurt especially when we have break this down to once a week instead of twice

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Just confirming this once again, is it has been confirmed that there will only be 1 instead of 2 regular tournament per week for the 3rd series? Or are we still in discussion stage for that matter

Something like this could work as a random incentive for people to keep playing. Funding it and collecting isn't much harder than the current system. It would be nice to hear if people are opposed to up front entry/league fees or not.
Yes I like the 5000 chip starting stack. Blinds structure and speed seem fine for the games overall.

The more thought I give this I think the best way to make this inclusive would be to fund a runner-up tournament for the rest of the field. We could make it 1300 with the extra 100 going to the runner-up prizepool. Say everyone who plays in at least 1/2 of the qualifiers gets auto-entry. The prizepool won't be huge but it wouldn't be nothing and could provide incentive to everyone. I like the idea of keeping any extra we get from SWC directed towards the championship; unless they offer obviously.

I understand not giving everyone a point for games played. It's not so bad if you are finishing in the top 5 or so, but it really hurts people playing the bubble who hold out for that 1 point. @Globbo if we always funded a mini-championship do you feel that would still be incentive enough if there were no points outside of the top 10?

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I played the nightly seal battle on SWC last night. Took a shot and invited the table to join got no takers but Riley Reid invited me to their "fansonly"  Made me chuckle. I don't know why Regs seem opposed to taking part but I did see Bitmutiny at the tables.

So basically you are proposing to avoid 1 point for participation. That could work, at least I don't see a big downside for that proposal. Maybe we could give 10 points for first place as it is now. That way final table gets rewarded, 9th place gets 2 points if my math is correct and all other players get one point.

I would also like to have runners up tournament, I just don't know where to get money for it. I will be ok if do it like regular buy in but it would be much better if we manage to get some sponsor.

I don't think it has to be linear.

Keep your top places valuable. Below a certain point just give 1 point to the rest.

Might also generate some action mid table, because people might have to play to get safe.

we're at least set on keeping 5000 chip starting stacks and the same blind structure, right?

any other thoughts on an additional buy-in to fund direct league prizes (ie top x players in points get BTC prizes)?

or about upfront league entry vs per game entry? it would be way less headache to collect fees if it were all done upfront.


so basically this?


i think so too. if we coordinate with SwC beforehand they might be willing to throw us a bone. if not, should we try to fund it ourselves? 500 chips x 20 players = the 0.01 BTC prize pool we had for the first runners up game.

I said my bit before.

I think everyone should get a point for entering any tournament match. So even if you came last 8 times you will have more points than someone who lost 2/2 of their games.

We aren't affecting the top end of your games. As seen its the usual faces in the top few slots, this is adoption at the other end of the scale.

Also I think a losers tournament was nice for something for the non pros to look forward to.

that's one reason why upfront league entry would be nice. everything gets sorted out and paid for beforehand (on a series basis rather than per game basis) except for the direct buy-ins themselves.

the problem of course is that 250+250 for league/championship prizes = 4000 chips up front, which may deter some people.

I have thought about such ideas as well. Mainly about incentives to keep the weaker and/or out-of-contention players interested and probably get new (regular) players. The best idea I could come up with, was some kind of lottery for players ranked outside of Top9 after 8 tournaments. Each player who has participated in at least 6/8 tournaments is eligible and will get "tickets" to the lottery based on his number of participations and the points he accumulated:



10 tickets per participation and one ticket per point:

I would get 60+24 = 84 tickets (ticket numbers 1-84)
SyGambler 60+23 = 83 tickets (ticket numbers 85-167)
Trofo 80+19 = 99 tickets (ticket numbers 168-......
cygan wouldn't be eligible, because only 5/8 played
jayce 60+1 = 61 tickets
etc.

Then you would have XXX tickets and the most trusted user, which is probably Hhampuz, would pick the winners with some random number generator. Each user can only have one winning ticket and you have like 3 prizes.

If you put 100 chips aside from each player for every tournament in series #2, you would have had a 14500 chips prize pool for this lottery.

The problem is........it creates additional hassle with collecting these funds, so probably not an option.

I think we have done away with it completely, iirc. Maybe we left in a 5-10 minute late reg that wouldn't really make a difference overall.

I've been giving the prizepool a lot of thought as that seems to be where people think we are weak. What if we allowed 1 re-buy within the first 45 minutes or something like that.  This way if someone is inclined they can buy back in off  bad beat or just because they bust out and want more. It's not much but the prizepool will continue to grow only when we get more people involved at ~the same buy-in. I personally think the increases will just turn this into more of a niche game, and i could be wrong.
I have been trying to think of neat ideas that could really be more luck based than skill based to encourage participation, without increasing buy-ins. What if we created a "High Hand" or something similar for each tournament as a side prize say 175 goes to the Championship pool and 25 goes to each tournaments "High Hand" pool. It takes a bit away from the top performers in the end but the more participants we draw in the larger the prizepools will be.