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Topic: Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place. - page 2. (Read 1841 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1671
#birdgang
can we generate a confirmed payout structure for the lottery, so there is no ambiguity/disputes about how it gets paid out?

payouts should be flat/even like a satellite. we just need to know the exact cutoff where 2 people get paid, vs 3 people or 4 people etc. for instance, what happens if the total pool is 21k chips? 3 people get paid 7k, or 2 people get 10.5k?

Hehe, I don't make the rules, I just propose them and then we can discuss them Smiley In my mind, a new prize is created as soon as we get over the next 10k threshold. So at 20k chips, you would have 2 prizes á 10k chips and at 20k+1 chip, there would already be 3 prizes á 6,667 chips. Then next/fourth prize would get created at 30k+1 chip.

In last series we would have had 29k chips in the lottery pool for 3 prizes á 9,666 chips. With a low 30k+ pool, we would have 4 prizes á 7,500+ chips. But I hope that we cross 40k barrier, which would mean 8,000+ chips for 5 different players.

But nothing is set in stone, we can change this easily of course, we should just find a consensus before next Sunday.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
The number of prizes depends on the amount collected for the lottery. For every 10,000 chips, there will be one prize. If the total pool is 18,000 chips, there will be two prizes of 9,000 chips each. If the total pool is 24,000 chips, there will be three prizes of 8,000 chips each. Etc.

thanks for putting this together.

can we generate a confirmed payout structure for the lottery, so there is no ambiguity/disputes about how it gets paid out?

payouts should be flat/even like a satellite. we just need to know the exact cutoff where 2 people get paid, vs 3 people or 4 people etc. for instance, what happens if the total pool is 21k chips? 3 people get paid 7k, or 2 people get 10.5k?
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1363
www.gosubetting.com
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1671
#birdgang
I made a little rule book to get a better overview and understanding about our complicated series Grin @efialtis, feel free to use (parts of) them for the thread for #3 series. I am also calling especially the native speakers to improve the wordings, grammar, add missing information etc. Cheesy


Index





General Information & Series Structure

The Bitcointalk Poker Series sponsored by SwC Poker can be joined by any interested poker player with a Bitcointalk account. If you don't have a Bitcointalk account yet, feel free to make one. We would be happy, if you engage in discussions about the series and/or Poker, but it's not mandatory. We welcome players of any skill level, any age, any gender, any colour. The tournaments will be played on Sundays 5PM GMT.

The series will feature 8 qualifier tournaments, a Grand Final, a Small Final, a lottery and hopefully lots of fun and suckouts. There is an internal points structure, where you accumulate points to qualify for the Grand Final. Every participation will also give you tickets to the lottery. If you are a regular player, you will automatically qualify for the Small Final.

We play Texas No Limit Hold'em, the starting stacks are 5,000 chips, blind levels are 10 minutes and there is no late registration available.

You might also want to join the Bitcointalk Poker Community Server on Discord: Join here.

The first two series:
Series #1
Series #2

Entry Fees & Passwords

The entry fee per tournament is 1,400 Chips or 0.0014 BTC.
1,000 chips you pay for registering for the tournaments directly at SwC.
400 chips you send to the SwC account "youcantwin" via P2P transfer. 200 of those chips go towards the prize pool for the Grand Final, the other 200 chips towards the lottery.

There are no entry fees for the Grand Final and the Small Final.

The tournaments are password protected, you will get the passwords via Personal Message (PM) in this forum, after you have sent the 400 chips per tournament to youcantwin. If you intend to join all 8 qualifier tournaments, it would be helpful, if you send all extra fees (3,200 chips) upfront.

The Qualifier Tournaments

A total of 8 qualifier tournaments will be played inside 8 weeks, Sundays 5PM GMT. If possible, register as early as possible, since there is no late registration available. Just send 400 chips to youcantwin, get the password and register for the tournament for a fee of 1,000 chips.

Q#1: 06/28/2020
Q#2: 07/05/2020
Q#3: 07/12/2020
Q#4: 07/19/2020
Q#5: 07/26/2020
Q#6: 08/02/2020
Q#7: 08/09/2020
Q#8: 08/16/2020

Internal Point Structure

To determine who will qualify for the Grand Final, we have an internal point structure, where you get a number of points for each tournament, when you finished inside the Top10.

10th = 1 Point
9th = 2 Points
8th = 3 Points
7th = 4 Points
6th = 5 Points
5th = 6 Points
4th = 7 Points
3rd = 8 Points
2nd = 9 Points
1st = 10 Points

If two or more players have the same amount of points after 8 tournaments, the average finishing position in all tournaments participated will be the tie-breaker.

The Grand Final

The 9 players with the most points from our internal point system will be eligible to play the Grand Final, which will take place on 08/23/2020. You will automatically get registered for this tournament and don't have to pay an entry fee. As in the past, SwC is sponsoring 0.05 BTC among other things for this tournament and the 200 chips per tournament and participant from the qualifiers will be part of the prize pool as well. This additional prize money for the Top3 will get sent to you via P2P transfer on SwC.

1st: 50% of Prize Pool + BIG BTC Ticket worth 0.01 BTC & a lovely SwC Flexfit Hat
2nd: 30% of Prize Pool
3rd: 20% of Prize Pool

The Small Final

Every player who joined at least 5 of the 8 qualifying tournaments, will be eligible to play in the Small Final, no matter how many points they accumulated. Players that didn't finish in the money (i.e. outside Top3) in the Grand Final, will be eligible to play in the Small Final as well. You will automatically get registered for this tournament and don't have to pay an entry fee.

The date and prize money is TBA.

The Lottery

To give anyone the chance to win some money, we introduced a lottery for the third series, which will be funded from the extra fees you send to youcantwin. With each participation you will get 10 tickets for the lottery. For every point you get via the internal point system, you will get one additional ticket. So if you played 6 tournaments and accumulated 18 points, you will have 78 tickets for the lottery. If you played only one tournament and did get no points, you will have 10 tickets. Etc.

After those 8 qualifying tournaments, the draw from a trusted member will take place via a random number generator. Each player can only win one prize from this lottery, so if you win a prize in first draw, the rest of your tickets will get voided. The number of prizes depends on the amount collected for the lottery. For every 10,000 chips, there will be one prize. If the total pool is 18,000 chips, there will be two prizes of 9,000 chips each. If the total pool is 24,000 chips, there will be three prizes of 8,000 chips each. Etc.

The prizes will get sent to your SwC account via P2P transfer. The date of the lottery is TBA.

The Spreadsheet

You can follow and monitor all happenings in the spreadsheet: Bitcointalk SwC Poker Championship Series

If you have any questions or find any mistakes, feel free to mention it in the dedicated threads or PM @efialtis or @tyKiwanuka.

Miscellaneous

If you paid extra fees upfront, but aren't able to participate in a tournament for whatever reason, the extra fee will be considered a donation, unless you request a refund. You won't get any tickets for the lottery, if you don't participate in a tournament, even if you donate the extra fee.

Any dispute should get resolved via majority decision.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
~
Yes, lottery is for all and better performing players get more tickets but participation is awarded heavily.
10 tickets per participation and one for each point you manage to get. If you won every tournament you would have double the points from the guy that participated in all of them and didn't win a single point. Feels like a perfect balance to award participation and give some extra points for ability as well.
~

At first I missed this part completely. This scheme indeed encourages participation, and I think it should be written in bold letters in the upcoming #3 Bitcointalk Poker Series' thread.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 2574
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you can win the lottery and qualify for the championship, right? i looked back through the thread and that isn't clear to me now. that seems ideal, otherwise i think we're segregating too much of the prize pool (half the extra buy-ins) for non-finalists. i think all the consolation stuff should provide additional opportunities to win money, but not at the expense of the finalists. they should get that EV too.

Yes, lottery is for all and better performing players get more tickets but participation is awarded heavily.
10 tickets per participation and one for each point you manage to get. If you won every tournament you would have double the tickets from the guy that participated in all of them and didn't win a single point. Feels like a perfect balance to award participation and give some extra points for ability as well.
Here follows the links for 2 most important posts on the subject by tyKiwanuka
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54576189
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54612710

By the way @tyKiwanuka, very nice thought out and I like the idea more and more, glad it made the cut for the new series.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
So sorry to disappoint but start is going to be next Sunday :/

no worries at all! we know you're a busy guy. we should do this right and get the word out first anyway. less than 24 hours notice would have netted a bad turnout.

i just shipped 3200 chips your way for all the buy-ins. please confirm receipt when you get a chance. i'm looking forward to seeing the new thread. Smiley

To be honest Im now more excited to win the lottery then get myself onto the Grand Finale lol

winning the lottery is kinda like getting 2nd place cash prize in a satellite that only awards 1 ticket---a nice consolation but definitely not the #1 goal.

you can win the lottery and qualify for the championship, right? i looked back through the thread and that isn't clear to me now. that seems ideal, otherwise i think we're segregating too much of the prize pool (half the extra buy-ins) for non-finalists. i think all the consolation stuff should provide additional opportunities to win money, but not at the expense of the finalists. they should get that EV too.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1414
We are going to have a new series up shortly and we will be playing 8 qualifiers (one each Sunday) with a Grand Final as well as a runners-up tournament.

Now everyone will be happy with this 8 qualifiers .

So sorry to disappoint but start is going to be next Sunday :/

Next week is the ideal time for this to kick in. Some people might be missing this information

this is why we are adding the lottery incentive. between the regular prize pools, lottery which will ~ pay for all your qualifier buy-ins, and the consolation tourney, i am hoping there is enough incentive now to keep runners in the final qualifiers. we'll see how it goes!

Lets just hope for the best that this will attract alot of new guy to come and try. To be honest Im now more excited to win the lottery then get myself onto the Grand Finale lol

If we ended up using the exact same system that Tyki proposed for the lottery, those who play well during the qualifier will has better chance of getting it.  Wink. I'd say triple profit on that, you get more tickets, higher points + you could be cashing in

This is actually a good news for me. Tomorrow I am driving 6+ hours to the summer house and wife would probably killed me if I said that I intend to play poker whole evening on our first day there while she has to unpack and clean everything Smiley

Thanks, for setting it up @efialtis.

See you all soon across the green table.

Quite impossible to set this up within 24 hours but consider this your lucky day Trofo  Cheesy See you on the table
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 2574
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
So sorry to disappoint but start is going to be next Sunday :/

This is actually a good news for me. Tomorrow I am driving 6+ hours to the summer house and wife would probably killed me if I said that I intend to play poker whole evening on our first day there while she has to unpack and clean everything Smiley

Thanks, for setting it up @efialtis.

See you all soon across the green table.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1363
www.gosubetting.com
Just my 2 cent opinion on this, dragging the tournament into 8 qualifier which is 2 months might resulted in lower hype for the game. Some player might be losing their enthusiast compared with the early state of the tournament especially when they have no chance to get into Grand Finale already

In the 2nd series, the last two regular games has less than 15 players.

i don't think this aspect has to do with how long the series is. the final games of any series will always have the fewest players. by that point, some players who are out of contention will have given up. i believe we had the same phenomenon in the first series.

this is why we are adding the lottery incentive. between the regular prize pools, lottery which will ~ pay for all your qualifier buy-ins, and the consolation tourney, i am hoping there is enough incentive now to keep runners in the final qualifiers. we'll see how it goes!

We are going to have a new series up shortly and we will be playing 8 qualifiers (one each Sunday) with a Grand Final as well as a runners-up tournament. The buy-in on SwC is still going to be 1 mBTC but we will have an extra 400 chips per tournament in order to introduce the lottery.

More details coming up asap.

woohoo! i'll be sending over the 3200 chips for the whole series soon. Smiley

i didn't realize it's saturday already. we should get a new thread up and get the word out ASAP......unless it's kicking off next weekend?

So sorry to disappoint but start is going to be next Sunday :/
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 2036
i don't think this aspect has to do with how long the series is. the final games of any series will always have the fewest players. by that point, some players who are out of contention will have given up. i believe we had the same phenomenon in the first series.
this is why we are adding the lottery incentive. between the regular prize pools, lottery which will ~ pay for all your qualifier buy-ins, and the consolation tourney, i am hoping there is enough incentive now to keep runners in the final qualifiers. we'll see how it goes!
Agreed. I know personally I'm not exactly hyping up the Championship unless I'm in contention. I still play tourneys if I'm out of the running but I'm just focusing on that prizepool. Don't get me wrong love to hear how it went, but I personally see it as an extra and focus on the individual qualifiers more. Probably why I either finish well or bust out without thinking of the grander scheme. I imagine there are quite a few who had played previously that would stick it out knowing there is a non-skill based lottery available.
We are going to have a new series up shortly and we will be playing 8 qualifiers (one each Sunday) with a Grand Final as well as a runners-up tournament. The buy-in on SwC is still going to be 1 mBTC but we will have an extra 400 chips per tournament in order to introduce the lottery.
More details coming up asap.
woohoo! i'll be sending over the 3200 chips for the whole series soon. Smiley
i didn't realize it's saturday already. we should get a new thread up and get the word out ASAP......unless it's kicking off next weekend?
I'm guessing it's next weekend, with the short notice but who know efialtis and SWC  are full of surprises. In the meantime let's spread the word. I will continue to drop it in the chat on SWC, as it should be right up most of their alley. The only difference is this is a freezeout and I don't think SWC hosts any of those.

Great new looking forward to seeing everyone at the tables again soon.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
Just my 2 cent opinion on this, dragging the tournament into 8 qualifier which is 2 months might resulted in lower hype for the game. Some player might be losing their enthusiast compared with the early state of the tournament especially when they have no chance to get into Grand Finale already

In the 2nd series, the last two regular games has less than 15 players.

i don't think this aspect has to do with how long the series is. the final games of any series will always have the fewest players. by that point, some players who are out of contention will have given up. i believe we had the same phenomenon in the first series.

this is why we are adding the lottery incentive. between the regular prize pools, lottery which will ~ pay for all your qualifier buy-ins, and the consolation tourney, i am hoping there is enough incentive now to keep runners in the final qualifiers. we'll see how it goes!

We are going to have a new series up shortly and we will be playing 8 qualifiers (one each Sunday) with a Grand Final as well as a runners-up tournament. The buy-in on SwC is still going to be 1 mBTC but we will have an extra 400 chips per tournament in order to introduce the lottery.

More details coming up asap.

woohoo! i'll be sending over the 3200 chips for the whole series soon. Smiley

i didn't realize it's saturday already. we should get a new thread up and get the word out ASAP......unless it's kicking off next weekend?
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1363
www.gosubetting.com
Hey guys,

sorry for the silence - it's not like I am not doing things behind the scenes... Cheesy

We are going to have a new series up shortly and we will be playing 8 qualifiers (one each Sunday) with a Grand Final as well as a runners-up tournament. The buy-in on SwC is still going to be 1 mBTC but we will have an extra 400 chips per tournament in order to introduce the lottery.

More details coming up asap.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1414
Guys, if #3 Bitcointalk Poker Series is going to happen, maybe we should create a separate thread for it. To be honest, it was hard even for me, after rereading the latest posts, to figure out whether we are playing this Sunday or not, let alone for the potential new participants. Smiley

I personally agree with 6 or 7 qualifiers, and basically with anything @efi is going to come up with. I mean, all of us have already expressed our opinions, now, let @efi to say the final word.

There will be an new thread for the new series as soon as @efi agrees everything with SwC. This thread is not related to particular series it is more like the ideas to help our series evolve.

... Idk Im just guessing this but We can always drag it longer if needed in the middle of the series I guess ? ...

All it needs is just some agreement from the majority of the player but some people might think that this might put them to disadvantages if we change it midway of the series

There should never be a change of rules or competition format or anything in the middle of the series. There will always be someone who will feel cheated and probably with good cause. Every time money is involved everything should be clear from the beginning, otherwise we are just inviting trouble.

I guess then we all agree on 6 qualifier + 1 Grand Finale then. That also means, one or two bad weeks will make our chance to get into Grand Finale slip away. On the same time, It is going to be much more interesting because alot of us will be playing it safer unlike usual

Got some positive and some negative side to it but I think we can all adapt with the new one  Smiley



i just don't understand the logic of cutting the series 25% short---i don't see any benefits and no one (including @efialtis) has really articulated why we should do this. anyone?

this is just a casual sunday poker game. why do we need to compress everything and aim for the same kind of time frame as the last series? a 5-week series (#2) made sense when everyone was stuck in quarantine and playing 2 games a week but now, not so much.

Just my 2 cent opinion on this, dragging the tournament into 8 qualifier which is 2 months might resulted in lower hype for the game. Some player might be losing their enthusiast compared with the early state of the tournament especially when they have no chance to get into Grand Finale already

In the 2nd series, the last two regular games has less than 15 players. Especially with everyone going to back to their normal lives now, the last two games on the 3rd series might be getting lesser player. That means almost everyone is guaranteed to get points. Kinda bad and lame on the same time if there are only 12 players with top ten being rewarded with points isnt it?

Efi probably has another thing on his mind regarding this, we just need to wait I guess  Wink

legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
I mean, all of us have already expressed our opinions, now, let @efi to say the final word.

not really. unfortunately most just said they are cool with what everyone else decides and gave a range.

i have a hard preference for 8 qualifiers and think 6 is too short---barely enough to overcome variance. i'm still willing to play regardless, but if @efialtis is the only one who prefers 6 qualifiers vs 7 or 8 and this is negotiable, i definitely want more.

i just don't understand the logic of cutting the series 25% short---i don't see any benefits and no one (including @efialtis) has really articulated why we should do this. anyone?

this is just a casual sunday poker game. why do we need to compress everything and aim for the same kind of time frame as the last series? a 5-week series (#2) made sense when everyone was stuck in quarantine and playing 2 games a week but now, not so much.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 2736
Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o
@BitcoinGirlClub
Sorry guys, I could not follow up since I was not online for last two weeks. It's a yes for me and will we have a tourney in this Sunday or it's going to start from the next Sunday?


I figured it's not happening in this Sunday.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 2574
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Guys, if #3 Bitcointalk Poker Series is going to happen, maybe we should create a separate thread for it. To be honest, it was hard even for me, after rereading the latest posts, to figure out whether we are playing this Sunday or not, let alone for the potential new participants. Smiley

I personally agree with 6 or 7 qualifiers, and basically with anything @efi is going to come up with. I mean, all of us have already expressed our opinions, now, let @efi to say the final word.

There will be an new thread for the new series as soon as @efi agrees everything with SwC. This thread is not related to particular series it is more like the ideas to help our series evolve.

... Idk Im just guessing this but We can always drag it longer if needed in the middle of the series I guess ? ...

All it needs is just some agreement from the majority of the player but some people might think that this might put them to disadvantages if we change it midway of the series

There should never be a change of rules or competition format or anything in the middle of the series. There will always be someone who will feel cheated and probably with good cause. Every time money is involved everything should be clear from the beginning, otherwise we are just inviting trouble.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
Guys, if #3 Bitcointalk Poker Series is going to happen, maybe we should create a separate thread for it. To be honest, it was hard even for me, after rereading the latest posts, to figure out whether we are playing this Sunday or not, let alone for the potential new participants. Smiley

I personally agree with 6 or 7 qualifiers, and basically with anything @efi is going to come up with. I mean, all of us have already expressed our opinions, now, let @efi to say the final word.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1414
any other opinions on 6 qualifiers vs 8? like @Steamtyme i prefer 7 or 8 qualifiers. i know @efi prefers 6. can we meet in the middle with 7?
Don't know why but 7 sounds strange to me Smiley I sort of expect an even number I guess

i prefer 8 myself---i'm just trying to find some compromise here. Smiley

when we add in the championship game, 7 qualifiers would mean 8 weeks total for the series, which seemed reasonable.

6 or 7 seems fair to me, perhaps Efialtis had some talk with SWC representative and deem that this is the best for both party . Idk Im just guessing this but We can always drag it longer if needed in the middle of the series I guess ? As long as it doesnt need the assistance of SWC unlike changing the buy in or the starting stack then I guess we could

All it needs is just some agreement from the majority of the player but some people might think that this might put them to disadvantages if we change it midway of the series
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483
any other opinions on 6 qualifiers vs 8? like @Steamtyme i prefer 7 or 8 qualifiers. i know @efi prefers 6. can we meet in the middle with 7?
Don't know why but 7 sounds strange to me Smiley I sort of expect an even number I guess

i prefer 8 myself---i'm just trying to find some compromise here. Smiley

when we add in the championship game, 7 qualifiers would mean 8 weeks total for the series, which seemed reasonable.

I already wrote somewhere that it doesn't really matter to me if it is anything between 4-10 tournaments. Less than four isn't a series and more than 10 would really stretch it too long.

6 is the minimum for me. it's really tough to recover from 2-3 bad (or missed) games in that kinda series. 8 qualifiers is really the sweet spot IMO.

I suggested to @efi that he tries to feel out the SwC and see if they will give us better bonus if we play more tournaments in the series. If they will not, than it makes sense to play smaller number of tournaments, just enough to keep our sponsors happy.

the less we bother SwC the better---that's my sense. the longer the series is, the more likely i think they are to keep sponsoring us, but maybe @efi has some more insight into this.
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