Bitfinex - FRAUD, price manipulation, fake transactions - page 9.

mayax

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 11, 2017, 11:14:48 AM

Quote from: stompix on August 11, 2017, 11:04:13 AM

You're asking for a total revamp of the system, not going to happen too soon

Gemini, Itbit, Bitstamp, GDAX, Kraken, Coinfloor and perhaps a few others.

Kraken is broken but unhacked. Bitstamp was hacked but users weren't affected. GDAX is a weird flaky place but has never been hacked and is backed by extremely deep pockets. The Japanese exchanges are now rigourously regulated and backed by proper finance heavyweights.

I think it's only a matter of time before the alt only places have to shape up or ship out. It's also likely that the above list will add more alts as time goes by too. Once more of them have margin trading the volume will move towards them too.

The revamp is happening, albeit slowly.

Kraken is unregulated. They can be seized anytime. They play a very risky game on the client's funds. I don't know what's in their mind

gentlemand

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Quote from: deisik on August 11, 2017, 12:17:52 PM

What about decentralized exchanges?

I mean the ones that are built in, i.e. exist in the blockchain itself? As far as I know, no major altcoin (not speaking of Bitcoin) has this functionality so far (BitShares cuts it pretty close to being one such exchange). But given the recent events (and events that are yet to follow), there might be a strong push toward such exchanges. Indeed, we would still need fiat gateways anyway, but it seems people nowadays rarely need to withdraw fiat, so this doesn't look like a primary concern here. what is your stance on the matter?

I've already said it elsewhere in this thread. We need two types of exchanges, properly regulated ones for people who are fond of their order books or fully decentralised.

Centralised, unregulated and unaccountable has been the norm so far and it's been a very consistent disaster.

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 11, 2017, 11:14:48 AM

Quote from: stompix on August 11, 2017, 11:04:13 AM

You're asking for a total revamp of the system, not going to happen too soon

Gemini, Itbit, Bitstamp, GDAX, Kraken, Coinfloor and perhaps a few others.

Kraken is broken but unhacked. Bitstamp was hacked but users weren't affected. GDAX is a weird flaky place but has never been hacked and is backed by extremely deep pockets. The Japanese exchanges are now rigourously regulated and backed by proper finance heavyweights

What about decentralized exchanges?

I mean the ones that are built in, i.e. exist in the blockchain itself? As far as I know, no major altcoin (not speaking of Bitcoin) has this functionality so far (BitShares cuts it pretty close to being one such exchange). But given the recent events (and events that are yet to follow), there might be a strong push toward such exchanges. Indeed, we would still need fiat gateways anyway, but it seems people nowadays rarely need to withdraw fiat, so this doesn't look like a primary concern here. what is your stance on the matter?

gentlemand

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Quote from: stompix on August 11, 2017, 11:04:13 AM

You're asking for a total revamp of the system, not going to happen too soon

Gemini, Itbit, Bitstamp, GDAX, Kraken, Coinfloor and perhaps a few others.

Kraken is broken but unhacked. Bitstamp was hacked but users weren't affected. GDAX is a weird flaky place but has never been hacked and is backed by extremely deep pockets. The Japanese exchanges are now rigourously regulated and backed by proper finance heavyweights.

I think it's only a matter of time before the alt only places have to shape up or ship out. It's also likely that the above list will add more alts as time goes by too. Once more of them have margin trading the volume will move towards them too.

The revamp is happening, albeit slowly.

stompix

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 11, 2017, 10:58:08 AM

Quote from: aTriz on August 11, 2017, 07:01:38 AM

Stuff like this, just makes me mad, and this will definitely give Bitcoin a bad reputation and will only further discourage new people to use Bitcoin. This is one of the reasons why Bitcoin will never become mainstream. These exchanges could always go corrupt and they could easily just manipulate the prices of bitcoin, causing them to lose a whole lot of money

Exchanges with track records like Bitfinex aren't going to be around for much longer IMO. They'll either be raided and shut down, lose any semblance of banking no matter how many corners they try to cut, be bought out by someone who can be arsed to make it fully legit or abandoned by their users when better options come along.

When it comes to fiat exchanges, not that it really is one any more, it's pretty much the last of its kind now.

And which are the ones with track records UNLIKE Bitfinex?

Btcchina and Okcoin? oh, those are just as good
Gox and Mintpall? no comment

)
Bitswamp? probably the cleanest pair of socks in the laundry bag
Coinbase ? the only one that looks so neat and clean and legal because they are running like fort knox of information and not quite an exchange more like a bank
Poloniex and Bittrex? don't make me laugh
BTCe ? this is no laughing matter , it's a sad story

You're asking for a total revamp of the system, not going to happen too soon

gentlemand

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Quote from: aTriz on August 11, 2017, 07:01:38 AM

Stuff like this, just makes me mad, and this will definitely give Bitcoin a bad reputation and will only further discourage new people to use Bitcoin. This is one of the reasons why Bitcoin will never become mainstream. These exchanges could always go corrupt and they could easily just manipulate the prices of bitcoin, causing them to lose a whole lot of money

Exchanges with track records like Bitfinex aren't going to be around for much longer IMO. They'll either be raided and shut down, lose any semblance of banking no matter how many corners they try to cut or lies they tell, be bought out by someone who can be arsed to make it fully legit or abandoned by their users when better options come along.

When it comes to fiat exchanges, not that it really is one any more, it's pretty much the last of its kind now.

We will all be better off when it's gone.

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Quote from: mayax on August 08, 2017, 06:42:53 PM

A very good article about the "good" guys from Bitfinex :

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-analyst-identifies-clear-spoofing-pattern-at-bitfinex

Of course, they are not the only ones who are doing that. Almost all the exchangers are making fake volumes, market manipulations and so on....a lot of illegal things.

Losers = "YOU" (their customers).

Stuff like this, just makes me mad, and this will definitely give Bitcoin a bad reputation and will only further discourage new people to use Bitcoin. This is one of the reasons why Bitcoin will never become mainstream. These exchanges could always go corrupt and they could easily just manipulate the prices of bitcoin, causing them to lose a whole lot of money

deisik

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Quote from: illyiller on August 11, 2017, 01:29:18 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 11, 2017, 01:18:31 AM

But the real question you should have asked is whether the US federal agencies (such as those pictured at the Btc-e front page) can actually do anything substantial and detrimental (substantially detrimental) against Bitfinex today. I mean beyond what they have already done by now

What have they done, besides the CFTC giving Bitfinex a slap on the wrist? The thing about this is, these agencies take months and years to build cases. They filed that BTC-e indictment in January and sat on it for 6-7 months waiting for the time to strike. They were probably investigating for years before that.

We're now coming up on one year from the Bitfinex token scheme. I'd say the feds certainly aren't powerless here. They could start by seizing Bitfinex's domain and servers. They could likely seize a good deal of Bitfinex's fiat reserves. Same situation as BTC-e, if the feds want to go that route. That would be very detrimental for their customers (and for all those customers who just became investors via the token deal). And then there is the matter of all the Tether......

I don't know about the domain name

After all, ICANN is an American corporation so they could somehow force them to revoke the domain name for themselves. But do you know where Bitfinex servers are located exactly? If you don't know that (which seems to be the case), how are the US authorities going to seize them if they might be all placed in some obscure Chinese (Hong-Kong) data-center or even scattered all over the world? In short, do you have any real and pertinent info about the case?

illyiller

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Quote from: deisik on August 11, 2017, 01:18:31 AM

But the real question you should have asked is whether the US federal agencies (such as those pictured at the Btc-e front page) can actually do anything substantial and detrimental (substantially detrimental) against Bitfinex today. I mean beyond what they have already done by now

What have they done, besides the CFTC giving Bitfinex a slap on the wrist? The thing about this is, these agencies take months and years to build cases. They filed that BTC-e indictment in January and sat on it for 6-7 months waiting for the time to strike. They were probably investigating for years before that.

We're now coming up on one year from the Bitfinex token scheme. I'd say the feds certainly aren't powerless here. They could start by seizing Bitfinex's domain and servers. They could likely seize a good deal of Bitfinex's fiat reserves. Same situation as BTC-e, if the feds want to go that route. That would be very detrimental for their customers (and for all those customers who just became investors via the token deal). And then there is the matter of all the Tether......

deisik

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Quote from: MAbtc on August 10, 2017, 04:02:36 PM

Someone above suggested that US federal agencies may be up to something regarding Bitfinex. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the BTC-e indictment (filed in January 2017) and Bitfinex being cut off from the banking system (March 2017) are part of a larger operation targeting unregulated exchanges.

The conspiracy man in you is weak, small, and chicken-hearted

If he were a little more brave and decisive, he would tell you that this is no less than a part of a bigger plot, a plot which should eventually lead to the destruction of Bitcoin as well as other coins (i.e. the whole cryptoworld). But the real question you should have asked is whether the US federal agencies (such as those pictured at the Btc-e front page) can actually do anything substantial and detrimental (substantially detrimental) against Bitfinex today. I mean beyond what they have already done by now

CyberKuro

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Quote from: mayax on August 08, 2017, 06:42:53 PM

A very good article about the "good" guys from Bitfinex :

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-analyst-identifies-clear-spoofing-pattern-at-bitfinex

Of course, they are not the only ones who are doing that. Almost all the exchangers are making fake volumes, market manipulations and so on....a lot of illegal things.

Losers = "YOU" (their customers).

Oh my god, this is a bad thing of exchanges, then we should cash out right now, withdraw bitcoin and fiat currency.
Fake volumes refers to amount of money on the table, right? to attract more people join in their platform?
Then, how we convert bitcoin into fiat without exchange as a middle man?
How could we measure bitcoin price without trading volume on exchanges?
Well, I am not really worry about it, as long as I treat exchanges as a 'temporary shelter' in order to convert bitcoin into cash and vice versa.

mayax

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Quote from: countryfree on August 10, 2017, 05:56:59 PM

I'm dreaming people would stick to facts instead of saying BS.

The whole thing behind this topic is this:

Quote

According to author “Bitcrypto’d,” there is a high likelihood that Bitfinex itself is spoofing the entire market place.

There isn't any proof of any wrong doing. Just one guy saying there could be something...

haha. nice shill and a legendary one Cheesy

it's not only "one gue saying" . I am saying that since years ago !

The exchangers have fake volumes just to appear "big" and to manipulate the market.

99% from exchangers are spoofing and having fake volumes and you come to say that it's not true. OK ! LOL

Bitfinex is an unregulated shit exchanger like BTC-e, Poloniex, Kraken, all the chinese exchangers and so on. these have fake volumes and they manipulate the market as they want. is this correct for traders that a shit exchanger can dispose of funds as it wants?

don't come with "it's a free market" . a free market doesn't mean to fraud your client, to steal from him and so on.

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I'm dreaming people would stick to facts instead of saying BS.

The whole thing behind this topic is this:

Quote

According to author “Bitcrypto’d,” there is a high likelihood that Bitfinex itself is spoofing the entire market place.

There isn't any proof of any wrong doing. Just one guy saying there could be something...

shield132

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Quote from: bitbunnny on August 10, 2017, 05:50:50 AM

Things like this put the bad light on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. It makes you also wonder if there is any completely legit and secure Bitcoin service that sooner or later isn't involved or is suspicious to be involved in some shady operations. News like this make me sad and worried.

Yes, it's really hard to find trustworthy exchanger. Usually they are like Big Players and sincr they are very known, are using their possibilities and manipulate price as they are able to do. By the way I trust a little to US based exchangers, there is no doubt that they are lying less than other country based exchangers. I think this situation won't be fixed.

gentlemand

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Quote from: illyiller on August 10, 2017, 04:47:41 PM

Long term, yes. As much as I like the idea of fast, reliable non-KYC centralized exchanges, they are not sustainable.

If the SEC/CFTC (or worse) shuts down the exchange, any funds seized would be tied up for years. And like Gox, after legal expenses, customers would get a small percentage of their funds back. And it seems very unlikely that customers would escape fully intact. As mentioned, Bitfinex and Tether are one and the same. There are many hundreds of millions of USDT held as obligations by other exchanges. It's very possible that the shutdown of Bitfinex could cause massive losses to USDT holders across the ecosystem, as it would instantly lose all its value.

Yup. But the red flags have been getting redder by the day for years on end when it comes to that crew.

It must be a case of when not if. No doubt the entire market will take a huge hit but if people aren't personally out of anything they're involved in by then I'm going to struggle to have any sympathy for them.

illyiller

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 10, 2017, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: MAbtc on August 10, 2017, 04:02:36 PM

That explanation worked for the first month or two. But Bitfinex announced months ago that they moved nearly all of their fiat money outside of Taiwan. Why are they still unable to process outgoing bank wires to their clients? The reason for that is -- at a minimum -- being blacklisted by Wells Fargo and all its correspondent banks (virtually the entire USD banking system). One has to wonder whether this was done at the behest of the US government.

Someone above suggested that US federal agencies may be up to something regarding Bitfinex. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the BTC-e indictment (filed in January 2017) and Bitfinex being cut off from the banking system (March 2017) are part of a larger operation targeting unregulated exchanges.

As long as every customer got out intact I would regard the demise of the people involved in Bitfinex as exceedingly good news for crypto.

Long term, yes. As much as I like the idea of fast, reliable non-KYC centralized exchanges, they are not sustainable.

If the SEC/CFTC (or worse) shuts down the exchange, any funds seized would be tied up for years. And like Gox, after legal expenses, customers would get a small percentage of their funds back. And it seems very unlikely that customers would escape fully intact. As mentioned, Bitfinex and Tether are one and the same. There are many hundreds of millions of USDT held as obligations by other exchanges. It's very possible that the shutdown of Bitfinex could cause massive losses to USDT holders across the ecosystem, as it would instantly lose all its value.

gentlemand

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Quote from: MAbtc on August 10, 2017, 04:02:36 PM

That explanation worked for the first month or two. But Bitfinex announced months ago that they moved nearly all of their fiat money outside of Taiwan. Why are they still unable to process outgoing bank wires to their clients? The reason for that is -- at a minimum -- being blacklisted by Wells Fargo and all its correspondent banks (virtually the entire USD banking system). One has to wonder whether this was done at the behest of the US government.

Someone above suggested that US federal agencies may be up to something regarding Bitfinex. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the BTC-e indictment (filed in January 2017) and Bitfinex being cut off from the banking system (March 2017) are part of a larger operation targeting unregulated exchanges.

As long as every customer got out intact I would regard the demise of the people involved in Bitfinex as exceedingly good news for crypto.

There should only be two types of exchanges, fully regulated or properly decentralised P2P.

The third way, centralised and unregulated, delivered us Gox, Cryptsy, Mintpal, Bitfinex, BTER and god knows how many others.

Even if the operators of these places are competent and not thieves, they'll get raped by the authorities eventually.

MAbtc

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 10, 2017, 11:44:57 AM

Quote from: illinest on August 10, 2017, 05:40:05 AM

Until you consider: Why has the entire banking system blacklisted Bitfinex? Could there be mething larger at play?

It's the banking system blacklisting Taiwan, not Bitfinex. Taiwanese regulation has been exceedingly slack which is why BFX lost their international banking, as did other places such as Okcoin.com's USD.

That explanation worked for the first month or two. But Bitfinex announced months ago that they moved nearly all of their fiat money outside of Taiwan. Why are they still unable to process outgoing bank wires to their clients? The reason for that is -- at a minimum -- being blacklisted by Wells Fargo and all its correspondent banks (virtually the entire USD banking system). One has to wonder whether this was done at the behest of the US government.

Someone above suggested that US federal agencies may be up to something regarding Bitfinex. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the BTC-e indictment (filed in January 2017) and Bitfinex being cut off from the banking system (March 2017) are part of a larger operation targeting unregulated exchanges.

Anarchist

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Quote from: no0dlepunk on August 09, 2017, 10:50:35 AM

Come on! What is wrong with price manipulation huh? we have to embrace that because we don't have any choice but to utilize exchanges. What you have to do is to take advantage of it, buy every time that price goes down.

Man, you have to ride the waves! that what makes our thing fun! this game is for the strong (strong hands) Grin

Specially when the bank do the same Cheesy

2 years ago the BNP was charged with acts of manipulation, execution of false orders and collusion, as part of an investigation into a form of "cartel" exchange for several banks

mayax

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Quote from: wearepoor on August 10, 2017, 02:12:06 PM

Quote from: Thatstinks on August 08, 2017, 07:27:39 PM

I saw spoofing today or boxing in other term live and yes its frustrating. They set up walls, big ones, fake ones, restricting or moving prices by influence.

I actually mentioned it to the exchange and one wall came down in minutes.

Bitcoin CAN and WILL go UP and DOWN by spoofing, a big one is coming, they need their profits after all. I predict anytime now BTC starts to drop hundreds of dollars at a time day after day.

Why bother trading if you are not going to take profit, right.

I sold and am on cash for now, price will drop because big spoofers say so.

This is a really sad to know about this manipulation; if any big scam is in progress and the exchanges are involved in it, then one day this artificial balloon will be blast and the bitcoin price will hit the bottom. People will loose the trust and there will be very difficult phase for the survival of bitcoins.

that's why I am saying that the unregulated exchangers are a plague. their greedy will make you lose your funds and BTC will collapse. don't use unregulated exchangers anymore and the BTC market will be clean and smoothly

Topic: Bitfinex - FRAUD, price manipulation, fake transactions - page 9. (Read 4933 times)