Topic: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) - page 101. (Read 378562 times)

Sorry I don't know where that is, I've been looking at the first 2 posts of the thread and there it says 12Mill shares on third batch.
So this is the final issue of shares? Once these 7Mill are sold ALL shares will be in investors hands correct?

As stated previously we are scaling down on the operation.
Hence we will adjust the percent of profit so that each share is still worth 10 Mhash.
Please read the section about the changes to the IPO due to the hf deal changing for details.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2917934
//DeaDTerra

Well OK 7Mill is not 12Mill that's clear.

So what's happening with the other 5Mill shares?

Buy back has been cancelled.
The third batch has been issued and the ask has been placed at 0.0016 BTC per share. 7 Million shares will be put up, please note the change in hard limit.
//DeaDTerra

I doubt this market would be able to absorb 1 million shares in a decent period of time without losses given the bid-ask spread. Highly illiquid. Will see.

As a satisfied previous investor in Gamma Bitcoin Fund, I didn't need much convincing to invest in IceDrill, seeing as it's fronted by DeaDTerra, so I am now an investor in IceDrill as well.

Still, I had a few questions, most of which have been answered already. The one that I haven't seen answered or asked, is:


Seeing as there are no management fees and it has been said that all of the funds raised by IPO would be used for the benefit of the mine (as opposed to part of it going into the pockets of the founders), and that no consultation fees would be paid out to them, this makes me wonder — what is the incentive for them to do all the work? I understand that most of them are also shareholders, possibly having bought their shares as "private investors" for a discounted price (I am not implying there is anything wrong with that), but what is the incentive for DeaDTerra specifically, since he has stated that he is not a shareholder? It would seem odd if he was to spend his time (and a lot of it, judging by the size of this project) to manage all the assets just for the good of investors or BTC network, without receiving any direct benefit. Am I missing something here?

Thanks - pretty much exactly the answers I'd hoped to receive.

The shares are moving fast!  About 17million have been sold. At this speed, the third and final batch will be for sale at 0.0016 within the next 24hours.  If you buy 1million now, and sell it again in 24 yours, you'll make 100BTC.  That's serious coin, and its basically guaranteed (just as long as weExchange and BitFunder don't get raided or hit by a meteorite in the next 24 hours).  

I don't, they all matter immensely and I thank you for your input and due-diligence here.


Even though the managers and/or private investors may act as consultants, they will not be paid consultation fees. IPO management fees are nil.


Ah, ok, I understand. You want to ensure that we don't provide free hosting to other miners and have our investors foot the bill for the hosting costs? The answer is "No, definitely not". Even though the economy of scale deployment lends itself to it being a perfect place to "hide?" such a thing, what you're describing is fraud. Fraud is illegal, and not a concept we subscribe to. Please assume henceforth that our answer to the question of "will you defraud investors by doing XYZ?" will be: "no, we will not defraud investors by doing XYZ". That said, feel free to ask anything, we'll do our best to answer.


Yes, a breakdown of deployment costs will be posted when the mine goes live.


Yes. The hashing power we buy is a guaranteed minimum. If the nominal hashing power received is lower than that which was guaranteed, Hashfast will send us more to make up the difference.


From the sales contract:
Estimated delivery date: October 25, 2013.  Hashfast will have no liability for early or late delivery; provided, however,  if
Hashfast does not deliver by December 31, 2013, Buyer may cancel its order for a full refund of amounts paid to Hashfast.
Rather than cancel its order, Buyer may agree with Hashfast to an accommodation.

We have confirmation from Hashfast that they will refund the amount in BTC (i.e. not USD).

Your intended meaning must have been lost in the walls of text. Confirmed. All funds raised during IPO will go directly toward hardware purchases and economy of scale execution of mine setup.

Just a note: If you want your questions to be answered quickly, please state the context in a quote, remove all the irrelevant text and ask the question directly. My justification for this request is that some entities involved with providing answers here are necessarily spending time away from activities that directly benefit investors (e.g. mine execution) to do so. We're not saying you shouldn't ask questions, just imploring you to shorten the posts and get to the punchline. Please?

It looks like not a single shareholder took advantage of the buyback. As shady as IceDrill seems to be, people know what they got into and are sticking with it. Godspeed.

The option to sell back your shares will be closed within 12 hours.
If you wish to use that option please do so now.
//DeaDTerra

What exactly is there to refute?

You have an IPO by an operator of a pass through who is too busy to account for who actually owns shares, being supported by a serial scammer entrepreneur.  How are things working out for the investors of Feed ze birds these days?


You ought to address the very valid concerns many Satoshi dice investors have before taking up a new career as a stock shill.

Absolutely agree that issuers should honestly represent what they're doing. My point was more, as a selfish investor, I don't really care what they're doing so long as they deliver the promised ghs by the promised time.


Excellent point. I hadn't considered that.


Good point again.

I see your concern now. I know DT well enough to trust him, but if I didn't then I'd share the same concern.

I think some day you'll learn that you have that first sentence backwards. Nice refutation of my points, though 

People need to stop thinking of business as if one person wins, and everyone else loses. I see it all the time on this forum. With that mindset, observers try to figure out "who profits the most" and then label everyone else a loser or victim of a scam. In reality, there can be multiple winners, and in any good business deal, there is.

HashFast is the firm inventing the new chips. So yes, they probably will make the most money from sale of chips, as everything else is derivative and not as value-adding as the creation of those chips. But that doesn't mean other steps in the supply chain don't also profit. And it doesn't mean that other steps in the supply chain aren't valid business propositions (such as IceDrill).

Carve away all the puffery that's gone on in this thread, and look at the numbers. Investors are paying about $14-$15 for ghs to be delivered in late oct/early nov. Estimate the difficulty at that point, and then decide if it's a reasonable risk/return ratio. Consider then that the entire mine is going to pay .0016 per public share before the subsequent revenue is split equitably, meaning the mine will pay off for public holders before it pays of for the operators. This makes it additionally attractive... in reality the investors are, at launch, getting more than a ghs for their $14 (they're also getting the operators' share of the mine proceeds until 0.0016 btc per share in dividends is paid!).

Further, whether the operators are getting some of the IPO money is absolutely irrelevant. Let's assume they are getting 99% of the IPO money and will spend it on hookers and blow, does that make the deal worse? No, because the promise is to deliver X ghs per $ invested by Y time. Unless they break that promise, it matters not at all where the IPO money goes. Maybe IceDrill got the entire mine from HashFast for $100... and thus they'll keep all the IPO money for themselves. So what? Or, maybe IceDrill is paying $14 per ghs from HashFash, and thus not earning a penny from the IPO money. So what?

All that matters is the ghs delivered to shareholders, by what date, and at what price.

How much hashfast and the operators of icedrill make, and whether one gets kickbacks from another, or whether they're the same person, and what kind of clothes they're wearing or car they're driving is completely irrelevant. They are offering a price, for a product. If you trust them to deliver, then buy shares, otherwise ignore.

We may understand your admirably competent math, yet still object to the misleading, demonstrably false verbiage which you mysteriously strain to resist updating, even in face of an Avalon scandal which has ripped off Y-I-F-U's previously respected face and reduced him to a laughingstock.

Brother Vbs, there is no (good) reason for you to continue splitting incorrect hairs on behalf of Avalon/ACTM's unfortunate mishaps and follow Y-I-F-U's descent into ignomy.