Topic: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) - page 97. (Read 378562 times)

Is Avalon one of those companies? 

The topic of handling hardware obsolescence is something we'd like to defer until we have the 1st generation of hardware in-hand. Where possible we'd like to re-use as much hardware (PCBs, PSUs, cooling equipment, etc) as possible and implement chip replacement rather than dealing with the logistics of public sales/distribution. That sentiment can change though, depending on what's most profitable. Sorry, the best answer I have for you at the moment is "it's too early to say".



Maintenance costs of running the IceDrill will be on an ad-hoc and contractual basis and will be clearly listed as such on financial reports. We have no current plans for salaried employment. We'd rather fix issues than pay someone to switch the machines off and on when there's problems Oh the stories I can tell from when I worked in banking....


You're welcome, keep the questions coming.

You saw correctly. I asked DT to remove the post because the announcement was premature.

Please know that there are other companies in the space who are interested in our ability to purchase large amounts of hashing power. Some chip manufacturers see the benefit of focusing purely on their core competency (chip design & production) and like the way we've opened our offering to the community at large (decentralization of ownership). We've all seen the problems mining hardware companies have had up until now with sales execution, customer support, shipping logistics and all the important things that go along with delivering these machines far and wide. Doing it this way gets their product out there faster, smoother and with much less hassle than shoe-horning marketing/support/logistics team onto an already extremely-busy design team. As tech companies they agree that rapid company growth places negative pressure on their technical development agility. e.g. If you have a chip designer directly answering customer/sales support questions then you're doing it wrong.

My apologies if it the post removal seems a bit "cloak and dagger", but we agree with senseless when he asked the question:

It does. We have a 25% expansion clause to fulfill and relying on a single manufacturer for servicing all our future expansion needs is not only short-sighted, but also bad business practice. If other manufacturers can deliver hashing power which fits well with the IceDrill's enterprise-level, high-density compute cluster we simply must have the conversation with them. Any announcements relevant to this topic will be made when/if the documentation to support them are finalised, not before.

EDIT: grammar

You saw it.

Buying from one vendor you can have bigger discounts and as a big customer better service.

Will Icedrill be selling old hardware to the public as it becomes antiquated? What kind of salary is management taking for their duties in running all of this? Thanks for the response!

I can't really speak for investor confidence as gauging it is not my forté. I can only work towards successful delivery of our goals. That said, the current sell "wall" of around 330 BTC represents <2% of share sales up until now.


While we'd love to make a world of promises to sell the remaining 7m shares, we also feel that it's much more important to be able to deliver on those promises. The increase you're proposing is non-trivial.


See:
No, definitely not 1/2, the maximum of private shares is around 30%. See:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2938623 for details of the variable breakdown.

The design is complete. They're taping out this week.


See:

At what stage is Hashfast in their 28nm chip design process?

When is/was tape-out?

Our close relationship with Hashfast has not impeded our resolve to fight tooth and nail for our investors.


Yes, definitely. We're finalising our decision on the deployment location this week. Once that's done we'll keep everyone updated with as much detail and visual support as is possible. This will be our main focus in the coming weeks leading up to the receipt of the hardware. Along with actual pictures of the space, I'd like to leverage some of my (very basic) 3d visualization skills to illustrate the full magnitude of what we're doing while the deployment/customization/build-out is in-process.


The 1st amendment of the IPO states that at least a 0.0016 dividend (total) will be paid out before the private shares are allowed to float. Dividend payments will continue after that point. Are you asking that we increase this number from 0.0016 to 0.0017?

The estimated delivery date for the hardware is October 25, 2013 (from our sales agreement with Hashfast). We'll start hashing as soon as we have the hardware in-hand.

will, what's your estimated time until we are hashing?

Hi All - just a couple of updates from Hashfast that we're able to share now that they've made the information re: imminent tape-out public:


and

To clarify,
The account that holds the shares is the issuer account,
5.5 million of those shares are additional shares that will be paid to bulk purchase investors.
Please also read the changes of the IPO and how this effect the share count, it is important for the point you are making.
//DeaDTerra

You're being a bit unfair there.  If you look at ASICMINER you have to compare to the actual company not one pass-through.  Bitfountain hold over 50% of the ASICMINER shares.  And you're counting in treasury shares for Icedrill there - which distort the picture during IPO.  No idea what current share model ActiveMining have but last time I looked Ken (plus friends/family) was still getting 40% or so of all shares.

Beyond that I think it's fair to say investors are starting get mining-share-fatigue now : there's just been too many new offerings where people will make investors rich from mining/ASICs in return for a mere 10-50% of whatever gets mined/sold (Icedrill no longer falls in that particular category after the changes to the contract).  Now that those who just wanted to throw away their cash have done so it's much harder for new mining outfits to raise funds.

After the contract changes and clarifications my view is that Icedrill is one of the better value offerings out there IF you believe mining will be profitable.  My sole remaining signficiant issue with it is that it gives away equity as means of taking management fees.  Whilst one of the main problems with that has been addressed with the contract changes, it's still a horrible way to do things - leading to significant issues if there's a change in management team (this may have been addressed in whatever contracts managment have with Icedrill - but no disclosure has been made in respect of it) or closure.

I know IceDrill is still in their IPO phase, but its kind of scary when you look at the current share distribution now during "phase 3", where the majority is supposed to be sold...
Top 1% of share holders currently own 85 % of issued shares... 

IceDrill.ASIC
Total shares: 30 000 000
Shareholders:  427
Average share per owner: 70 257
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 15 500 000, 7 000 000, 2 182 855,  750 804
Sum top 1% (4) : 25 433 659 (85% of total)

Compare that to ActiveMining or AsicMiner:

ActiveMining
Total shares: 6 898 797
Shareholders:  700
Average share per owner: 9 855
Top 1% (7) shareholders:  642 022,  261 514,  243 573,  219 275,  177 280,  160 568,  154 360
Sum top 1% (7) : 1 858 592 (27% of total)

G.ASICMINER-PT
Total shares: 13 525
Shareholders:  396
Average share per owner: 34
Top 1% (4) shareholders: 1 345,  865,  740,  659
Sum top 1% (4) : 3 609 (27% of total)

Can someone please build a CDO cashflow waterfall spreadsheet with difficulty increase modeling? If so, then we can properly value this thing. (I am obviously not smart enough to do that)

Flat out modeling with difficulty seems to totally miss this 'credit enhancement' structure, which should be worth a LOT.

The shareholders getting paid 0.0016/share before private investors effectively acts as a thick credit enhancement on a CDO, right? Sorry, I am just trying to wrap my head around whether this is a good investment or not.

Sorry for my bad math. If private shares is 30% , you are somewhat getting something like extra protection with 7:3 ratio (ie. for every public share, you get extra ~0.43 share that helps to pay your principal back). then instead of buying at 0.0016, it's more like 0.0016/1.43 (initially before private investors get paid). that's close to 0.0012/share? that sounds like a steal to me. or am I smoking crack?

i don't think Icedrill has miners protection program (since it was not stated anywhere) but I think this 'credit enhancement" is way better than miners protection program. What's the point of hosting more hardware if hosting cost would not operationally break even?

Look longer term toward the cumalitive payout of dividends.  This should be a winner in that respect! If you're looking for quick flip or instant arbitrage In the next few months... Well thats debatable based on the information given.

Not exactly disagreeing with you about the weexchange process (haven't bothered myself), but from btct.co's site:
"This site is currently in beta. Nothing is verified. Everything is virtual. Do your homework. Watch out for scams. Be diligent."
Which I suppose there's something to be said about how they come across differently about a similar message.