Topic: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) - page 50. (Read 378708 times)

Just tell me where to tip.

This thread is almost more fun than reading the lawsuits being filled against those companies.

spot on, my friend.

You just forgot the part where "HF guys are so helpful , attentive and polite  and well-mannered and ...  where's the vomiting smiley? .... etc "

Woody Allen once said that in order for one piece to become art, over time it has to pass from tragedy to comedy or vice-versa. This NDA bullshit-common-sense-insult, fits the description entirely.

I partly disagree, Eisenhower34.

Although you are right that posts like "we have nothing new to say, everything is under NDA and we are working on X to provide you with Y" are useless, there are some things that the management could and should provide to us investors.
At the very least, a regular update of something like this —
"We currently have [integer] sierras hashing with the total hashpower of [number]. We are expecting [integer] more sierras by [date]. We have currently accumulated [number] bitcoins, amounting to [number] of BTC per share. We expect to, but not guarantee, to pay the first dividents on [date] when the revenue per share reaches [number] BTC. When our mining gains reach this number, we expect to have the 25% of the gains for future expansion of [number] BTC, which we plan to invest with [manufacturer] in the future, although our chosen manufacturer might change depending on the circumstances. We are working on an automated system to provide these details to shareholders in real-time, but until that happens we will make periodic updates in this thread."

I don't think that is too much to ask. I have invested, for my financial situation, a very significant amount of money in this operation. I don't think anyone has any delusions of having massive short-term returns from this, so I think most of us would want to at least have some clarity of what we can expect. Right now it is not clear at all — 1 BTC investment could turn out to return just 1 mBTC in the forseeable future, or HashFast might be giving us 100x hashpower for our delay for all we know. I fail to see how this silence could benefit anyone — investors or managers.

To be honest, i prefer the silence if I had to choose between silence, updates with "nothing new to tell" and people thanking him for these "nothing new to tell updates".

The only thing that could rescue this drowning mining coop is a solid compensation plan for the late delivery, but all you get on this front is "cannot tell you anything new, cause all is secret and nothing solid yet" (still the same song after a month ...)

And all you guys jumping hoops cause your happy when hes updating with a new pic of 4 "outdated" miners or write requests of "features" like trading this security or which mining pool to choose... We are drowning and you guys ask "Will my dead body look better in a pink or a rose gown?" WTF, Who cares? and if you say now "but I do care", then you are stupid! (took the last part out, cause it may sound too offensive, but thats my opinion.)

And I have to read all through this several pages long "crap" posts just in case that there was an "important" update...

This thread is getting silent. But currently, no news is bad news, right?

Because we aren't asking for it, doesn't mean you should not update us. Please keep us up-to-date with the progress you are making.

I'd say that I agree with you, and that it was made before B1 went public.  That aside, appeasing a single customer with false hopes and promises is a lot easier than appeasing 400 individual customers.

I'll just leave this here:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=4582.msg114934#msg114934

It should have been made before batch 1 went public/retail.

IIRC it was made well before B2 orders opened.

DeaDTerra, any updates on the public financial report?

In the main Hashfast thread are several people receiving shipping notifications for batch #2 orders. When was the Icedrill order made, before or after batch #2 orders opened?

Hi DeaDTerra, thanks again for taking the time to answer the groups questions.  Could you do us another favour?  The next time you talk to Willem (or whoever), could you kindly ask him WTF he/they have been doing for the last three months while we were all waiting for HF to deliver?  

I understand that those running the show don't want to rush things, that software needs tuning, that an automated dividend payout system and a method for "real-time" monitoring of the stats is in the works but not completed.  But really now, it's not as if the schedule was pushed ahead by 3 months causing a crunch of the projected timeline.  It was extended three months, so really, what is going on behind the scenes?  I get the feeling that absolutely nothing was done in preparation.  It's as if everyone sat around shrugging with this idea that there's nothing to do until a miner shows up.

Dude, we were sold a great story: hashing to begin in October-November. For that we funded the whole project & HashFast.
Now we are 3 months late, only starting to ramp up, having lost all of early advantage and income -- those 3 months would've given us ROI by now.

Why? Because of a shitty contract? Because of those lying weasels? Because of something else?

Someone's gotta pay.

Let's end this derailment.   Flash you are wrong.   Go pay $500 and ask a CA.  You know what that is correct?  In Canada there are LARGE differences between a Chartered Accountant and a CPA, CMA, CGA etc.  You need a CA.   
There is so much wrong with your theory, it frightens me.   Start a lottery then.   Did you NOTICE all the LAWS about who can "raffle" off cars etc?   ICEDRILL is NOT a registered non profit that has applied to the provincial and federal government to have an ongoing daily "lottery" that they will "win" that lottery and not pay taxes on their "prizes".
Actually in your example, the bitcoin protocol itself would need to be registered as the "lottery" and IceDrill would just be a participant.   Let me know when you find that registration.
God, no wonder there are so many federal agents using this forums with idiots like you spreading FUD that people do not need to pay taxes.   

False, large lotteries are run by the government, but there are many other lotteries that the government does not get revenue from.

Next "Canadian taxes can't possibly be good because we threw tea in Boston harbor" expert please.

I now know why my companies' audits with Revenue Canada and the IRS have been so easy, they are used to dealing with people that are absolutely insane in their theories for "why they did not pay tax".   Wow.    You realize those people at H and R Block are not accountants right?   Did you ever think why they might be available to work 6 weeks a year doing taxes for people?    Seems like experts like that would have full time jobs....

Not producing "winning" which comes under lotteries which aren't taxed, so value for capital gains is fair value at time of receipt, same as if you won a muscle car in a raffle and later sold it.

I think you may want to consult a CA in Canada.   That is not correct.   If you bought the coin from me and then resold it, yes, it would be a capital gain for you.   If you did that all day long, it is called income and is taxed as such.
If you are "producing" the coins your cost basis is zero so it is 100% revenue the day your pool awards you coins and you can deduct your expenses from that revenue and then you can pay tax on the difference.
Do not mistake tax treatment for something you are doing as a business vs. something you do personally a few times a year.   A great example is homebuilders (USA too).   You can flip up to six houses a year in the USA and still have them be capital gains.   More than that and you are doing it as a business and it is all income tax.
MTL is a regulatory license it has nothing to do with income tax.   That is like saying "canada does not require cab drivers to have a taxi license, so cab drivers in canada do not pay income tax".

Not choosing the MPP is one of the few things IceDrill got right. The MPP is worthless, since the only thing backing it is a fraudulent company. The MPP was marketed as a protection against hash power growth - but given the promised delivery dates and the wholesale pricing at that time IceDrill didn't need that kind of protection. In hindsight the MPP is simply another one of those "plays" by the company to lead you into a false sense of security and defraud you on another level. Customers who haven't understood that by now are beyond hope.

The p2pool is a protocol which allows participants to combine hashing power in a decentralized fashion and solves the granularity problem for bitcoin mining somewhat. However, the total hashing power in a p2pool still needs to be about 1% of the global hashing power for them to be competitive - another aspect is that the overhead puts you at a disadvantage w/r to centralized pools. Thus if you're the entity which adds 50% to the pool, you may as well not do it. It's smarter to gang up with a few other minor players and come up with a more centralized mining pool solution which is more efficient.

From what I can tell, IceDrill tried to position themselves as a partner to HashFast and as such they interacted with HashFast in a different manner than retail customers. Also, due to the size of the commitment, the fate of IceDrill and HashFast is more or less aligned, which gives IceDrill somewhat of a leverage (mutual assured destruction). So far the irrationality in the "partnership" originates from HashFast. Expect more details as this story unfolds, but as long as the source of the "irrationality" is not clear it is hard to make a prediction on whether the situation can be cured.

The tax question is something which relates to the company structure and to the location of where the bitcoins are actually generated. It should certainly be answered/engaged by IceDrill in a timely manner. It is my understanding that the hashing power can be located anywhere without making any commitments to a particular tax jurisdiction, because hashing is a computational service which doesn't do anything except finding a solution to a NP-complete problem.