Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process - page 17. (Read 292099 times)

Ukyo is just begging himself to be sued now.

I don't understand why he has said NOTHING in over 2 months now.

I've e-mailed him several times and he just stopped responding.

I'm willing to sign an NDA if it means he can share at least some of what is going on. Really, *anything* when it comes to the ukyo.loan funds.

Given that Ukyo still owes me about $150,000, it would definitely make sense for me to start talking to my lawyer.

Ukyo would have no option in that situation but to declare bankruptcy. He should at least be attempting to work with his creditors and coming up with some kind of plan to get at least some of his money back. He must realize we will not wait forever. I'm getting pretty pissed off.

Oh ok, that sounds a bit strange unless one of the two Weexchange companys is technically owned by the other, witch one were people that used Weexchange only to get BTC funds in and out of Bitfunder using, the Weexchange company in Usa or the one in Australia ?

I copied most of the timeline from one of SebastianJu's posts but apparently introduced some errors 

Timeline:

• 2013-10-08 Bitfunder closed for us-residents and verification needed
• 2013-10-17 Weexchange withdraw problems was first reported. Withdraws remained "processing" / "Could not connect to 2nd stage server" errors. Bitcoind kept crashing, according to Ukyo. Withdraws occasionally worked but the error appeared more often.
• 2013-11-14 Bitfunder closed
• 2013-11-12 Ukyo claims he still does manual withdraws from Weexchange funds though its probably the last time.
• 2013-11-?? Legal issue started around here, according to Ukyo.
• 2013-11-16 Ukyo removed the deposit address from Weexchange.
• 2013-11-?? Danny from NeoBee got involved in fixing the issue.
• 2013-12-17 Weexchange claim portal opens, allowing users to withdraw 6.175%.
• 2013-12-29 Weexchange's bitcoind client is affected by the "block 277596" issue.
• 2013-12-30 Ukyo opens the ASICMiner claim portal.
• 2014-01-22 ActiveMining's CEO starts selling Ukyo's personal ActiveMining shares to recover what he is owed.

As did pirate. Don't need to run, if you can keep your marks from taking any action by making vague useless public statements every several days. Just long enough for the indignation to dissipate, and let the ensuing Stockholm syndrome wash over everyone.

Hint: looks like you're defending him already.

Not so easy to run when you have a family.

There are actually 2 WeExchange companies. One in the US and one in Australia.

Those of you who we're not around for the pirateat40 implosion might not recognize what is going on here. Those of you who were should be feeling more than a twinge of unease in the pit of your stomach. Textbook scam delay tactic #653.

Or at least indistinguishable from such.

Thats a good summary of things, I think you got that a few date's wrong thou:

from Ukyo's post the 4 nov
"In connection with BitFunder’s shut-down, please note the following points, which supplement the points outlined in BitFunder’s October 8, and October 11, 2013 notices:
* As of November 14, 2013, no BitFunder user will be able to enter into any new positions or sell positions on the BitFunder website.
* On December 2, 2013, bitcoin balances in the accounts of all users will be transferred to their WeExchange accounts."

I think 8 Oct not 8 July was when us-citizens needed to get verified but they were still allowed to keep trading for a while after that if they got verified and the final trade stop for all users on Bitfunder was the 14 Nov not the 4 Nov.

If Sebastian only had funds stuck in Weexchange(or if he is mostly interested in what happened to the rest(5870? BTC) of the  ~6256?(386/0,0617) BTC in weexchange) and not in Ukyo loan, with Weexchange beeing registered(?) in Australia the logical would be to send the letter to the Weexchange's adress in Australia and not directly to Ukyo even if Ukyo that has handled most of Weexchanges business is in the Usa and it's Graet that is in Australia.
Or maby it's just because it's simpler to handle a process within the same country as he's using an Australian lawyer.

That mostly sums up the 68 previous pages.

@Seb: why send a letter to Oz and not the States?

Ukyo have been writing on IRC within the last hour:

Thanks, WeexUser, for that concise summary. Much appreciated.

There are many threads but this one is probably the best to follow.

Timeline: (fixed)

• 2013-10-08 Bitfunder closed for us-residents and verification needed
• 2013-10-17 Weexchange withdraw problems was first reported. Withdraws remained "processing" / "Could not connect to 2nd stage server" errors. Bitcoind kept crashing, according to Ukyo. Withdraws occasionally worked but the error appeared more often.
• 2013-11-14 Bitfunder closed
• 2013-11-12 Ukyo claims he still does manual withdraws from Weexchange funds though its probably the last time.
• 2013-11-?? Legal issue started around here, according to Ukyo.
• 2013-11-16 Ukyo removed the deposit address from Weexchange.
• 2013-11-?? Danny from NeoBee got involved in fixing the issue.
• 2013-12-17 Weexchange claim portal opens, allowing users to withdraw 6.175%.
• 2013-12-29 Weexchange's bitcoind client is affected by the "block 277596" issue.
• 2013-12-30 Ukyo opens the ASICMiner claim portal.
• 2014-01-22 ActiveMining's CEO starts selling Ukyo's personal ActiveMining shares to recover what he is owed.

SOSLOVE868 is currently talking to lawyers about a case against Ukyo.

The spreadsheet was created to figure out how much btc was stuck in weex. The spreadsheet is not of much use now because Ukyo said how much btc weex had available in December (the 6.17%) which makes us able to calculate how much is still stuck in weex. This number turned out to be much larger than what was accumulated in the spreadsheet.

Graet is the Director of Weexchange. He is probably needed, since Weex an Australian company and Ukyo (the owner) lives in the US.

Ukyo was active on IRC yesterday. AFAIK it had been weeks since his last message. Nothing more than a sign of life though, just a "hi" and some guidance to someone who needed a reset of his 2FA.

It wouldnt be a good thing to hire such a lawyer. They usually take a big chunk of anything that you would get back. So if at all one should pay the price for a lawyer simply and find out if you get something back. The lawyer would work for you anyway only when he debts are high.

I don't have funds personally at stake here, but I agree that a criminal investigation seems to be appropriate here.

As for a civil case, I wonder if there are lawyers who would take the case and only charge a fee if they win a decision in court?

Jeebus.. what a clusterfrick.

I just finished reading all 68 pages of this sorry rodeo. Took a couple of sittings.

Somehow, notice of this implosion flew completely under my radar. I'd heard stuff about bitfinder, and about Asicminer, and about... but nothing about WeExchange itself.

While it is not a lot, I had (have?) 2.5 BTC deposited at WeExchange.

So why would my not noticing this surprise me? Oh, I don't know. Maybe because non-fraudulent exchanges typically notify their depositors when their solvency is in jeopardy.

I understand that we do not know what has happened. However, the preponderance of evidence clearly shows the most likely case is that Ukyo has merely absconded with our funds. The only evidence to the contrary is empty assurances by unkown people that they 'know he didn't'. Well sorry to publicly contradict you, but lacking actual evidence, your unverifiable assurances amount to nothing larger than fly farts.

OK, perhaps there is a gag order in place. Let us posit this. However, in the US, the only gag orders where the target cannot divulge the existence of a gag order (at least to my knowledge) is an NSL. OK, let's posit there is an NSL in place. If so, do you really think DHS would allow the target of an NSL -- known to have access to $Millions -- to travel unchaperoned to Cyprus? Really? Can you say flight risk? Sure. I knew you could. Throw that red herring out.

So with that venting out of the way, is this the definitive thread on the topic?
If not, where is the best summation of events and status?
I'll chip in to sic a lawyer on his sorry ass - who's coordinating?
Why can I not even access my 6.175%? (I can log in, I can see my balance, can't get to it)
Is the google doc spreadsheet (linked above) of any use? If so, how do I add my loss?
Edit: when I signed up for WeExchange, the website seemed unambiguous that WeExchange was Graet. What is his role in this, and why is he silent in this thread?

Why would the fact that someone went to Dallas to talk to a lawyer lead you to presume that Ukyo is in the USA? B does not follow A in any stretch of logic.

I pressume Ukyo's still in Dallas, USA as SOSLOVE868 just traveled to Dallas from China a few days ago to talk to lawyer(s) there and possibly go further with a case against Ukyo.

Once again, I'm 99% sure that SEC and other agencies do not use gag orders like that. Especially when public funds are involved. If there is a gag order for this kind of thing, the business owner would be able to say that the SEC or whoever was involved, but they would not be able to divulge the details.  There would be NO CASE where a gag order would be given and a proprietor of a business would be allowed to accept deposits from the public with no chance of them getting them back, that would make the gov' agency culpable in the crime of thievery that has happened.

You are only looking at 'secret, can't talk about it gag orders' if an intelligence agency is involved or an undercover criminal investigation is going on, and this is not the case. Even if it is criminal investigation, the FBI or whatever would not give a gag order that would not allow the public to not know they were investigating -- the gag order would only prevent any details of coming out.


Regarding moving forward / progress, perhaps instead of a civil lawsuit it would be more efficacious to press criminal charges here.  As it stands now Ukyo took roughly 8000 bitcoins from the community, in either deposits that should have been protected or safe, or a loan, that he was defaulted on.  The missing money is $5 mill by today's rate.  For him to not comment on what happened, for (I even forget how long it has been now -- ) 3, 4 months, is beyond any reasonable consideration that he should be given.  

Do we know what country he is in?

As I pointed out in the other thread ...

A gag order that has been stated publicly to have been broken ... from the start by informing that bunch of crooks who were hoping to make a profit out of this situation
... so sounds like a load of rubbish that such a gag order even exists.