Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process - page 19. (Read 292138 times)

Ukyo hasen't exactly been detailed about what actually has happened, if funds got stolen or if he did use some of other peoples funds to invest in something that diden't work out as planned or if something other strange is preventing him from accessing the funds at the moment.
But if somehow funds actually got stolen from weexchange/bitfunder it would most likely have been on the BTC side and not on the USD/fiat side then i think.

So ... since with Weex, it was an exchange where the $ balance in the exchange can never get less than the balance of $ in every account ... who stole the $ out of Weex?

You see, if someone puts $ into Weex, and then buys BTC, those $ (less a fee) go to the other person.
Thus it's not possible for the balance of $ in the exchange to get below the account $ balance of all accounts ... unless someone was stealing the $ ...

So ... anyone got more bullshit to spread about Weex and their scam associates Neo & Bee?

Balance Stuck   53.28289435   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   3.50676123

Unfortunately I don't have the money for legal options, I'm quite poor.

Jon Montroll will get what is coming to him, I do not forget.  I also don't even care about money much, but just on principle, I can not let someone steal from me and get away without with experiencing repercussions. They might even be a long time coming but he has something coming for him. I don't live in the U.S but I have a great memory.

Besides taking it upon myself to try to wake people up around here to smell the coffee (that they have been taken advantage of), there is not much publicly more I can suggest. I just hope the bigger bag holders take him to the courts or press criminal charges, and then instead of Jon Montroll's bullshit, we can actually hear how (or why) the community lost over 5 million dollars of BTC entrusted to him, and instead of living comfortably off of stolen funds, Jon could try out poverty, such as he brought to his customers.  This vampire really fucked over a lot of people and justice should find him.  

@glendall 
You're right, what should we do next? I'll back you up

Something tells me that an American knowingly running an illegal business from US soil shouldn't count on being protected by the corporate shield.  But regardless, I'm not suggesting you should sue, merely that there is no scenario in which any of the people involved would advise you to sue.  That's all.

*lol* Multiple accounts are confusing right...

Theoretically i think youre right but ukyo not only owes privately but with a company too. The debtor's with ukyo loan could sue ukyo directly for the money. They have an advantage in sueing. But all weexchange debtor's have the problem that they only can sue when they sued weexchange first. Depending on if the company catches the problem or if ukyo made a legal error that makes him personally liable you have to sue then weexchange or ukyo in a civil case to seize funds.

Though i think ukyo wont have riches you can sue him for. The only hope is to find out where the coins went and get them back.

@stereotype:  Wait, NotLambchop is a sock?!   But then how come...  Oh god, this is all so new and confusing...

Little slip there, Crumbs?

^theMiracle is my alt account.

I can't find your previous post on this subject?

If I didn't make myself clear:

There is no plausible scenario in which *anyone trying to get money from Jon* would to tell you to sue.

Those planning to file a civil (tort) case against Jon would not tell you to sue him because you would be competing for the same (limited) funds.  The more people sue Jon, the less money each one will be able to get back, the messier the case, etc., etc.

Those looking for a solution outside of the legal system obviously don't want you to sue, but assuming that you'll somehow benefit from their efforts is unreasonable.  Backroom deals are seldom done to benefit the public.

Bananery had it right. Those guys lost many coins themselves, they know what happened and they think its not good to sue now. Ukyo in itself is no reason of course except you add him some credits for his past. But when other big debtors say the same it means ukyo has a right point there most probably. Thats a strong hint that there might be better options. Of course... that doesnt mean that i will accept ukyo telling me nothing since i could not decide if its a clever scammer technique or a real reason then.

I did not get any contact till now from someone who knows what happened that told me i should not sue. Only ff96 claimed its best to let a lawyer get in contact which hints that its a legal problem that wont be solve with sueing.

@glendall... The technical problem was the first problem and that is known. Its the crashing bitcoin-deamon. Then there was the second problem that ukyo claimed its of legal nature. There was a third little problem with a block that didnt confirm or something. As far as i see it the technical problems are solved, only the remaining problem is in the work now. It sounds to me that ukyo works together with others for that and that he had to wait for them to act. That hints a bit that its really a legal matter.

Anyway... i think i gave the last info yesterday to my lawyer and they prepare the letter of demand... (whatever they do...) I hope my spent money brings something back.

In case the coins are seized i cant believe that this is legal since the coins arent owned by weexchange but they belong directly to persons. They cant use the coins as if they are funds owned by weexchange. Though thats my personal opinion, nothing a lawyer said. Just speculation.

I was addressing SebastianJu, who feels that it does matter...

I have further pointed out that Danny, being a friend of Ukyo's, would be unlikely to suggest involving teh law.
Which pretty much nulled SebastianJu's argument.

Assuming that major debtors' interests are aligned with yours also deserves some dynamite money.
If they are trying to get money out of Jon (who does not have enough to pay back everyone), why in the hell would they want *you* butting in with *your* lawyers and *your* hand out?

No, it's about Danny and others who have large amounts on BTC stuck on weex not wanting to sue. Ukyo doesn't want to be sued which is obvious. Doesn't matter what he wants.

Those who have a lot of funds stuck don't want to sue, especially those who know what happened. If those guys are not suing, that means there is no point in suing.

Let me get this straight...  Ukyo (Jon) not wanting to be sued makes you think that you shouldn't sue him?  Would it surprise you to know that very few people would tell you that suing them is a good idea?  Would it surprise you even more that their friends (Danny) would also tell you that suing is unwise?

Frickin' Nobel-quality thinking here.

Fair enough points.

Personally I don't trust Ukyo at all, he doesn't seem trustworthy to myself. This why I don't put much stock in his technical problems reasons.  Again I just don't buy it: for what possible reason could he not even explain the nature of the technical problem to us?  What technical problem could take more than a month of full time to resolve (yes I know it is possible, but I don't think likely). Why would he not enlist the free help that offered by some members of the community to fix said technical problem?  

Ok so let's say it was a technical problem.  Why would Ukyo:

a) be aware of the technical problem that caused him to lose btc or be unable to withdraw their deposits

and then

b) why would he continue to accept deposits for over a month knowing that he had the problem and he was unable to let people withdraw?

That just does not add up. It took a lot of badgering for him to even post on WeExchange that he was having the technical difficulties.

Because he has given next no details on anything at all, I'm forced to do guesswork. But the the most likely scenario that I can establish without much question is that something illegal happened and he has not been forthright with his on the reasons why all 'of our coins are gone'.

It's all been gone over so I'll save everyone the boredom but I think the timing of his massive loan is also quite suspicious.  (I mean how could I not see it as suspicious, really. )

The technical problem was only the first problem. Then came the second problem he claims is of legal nature. So when ukyo, neobee and others, that know what happened believe its better to not sue when you want to get your coins back then there is a strong chance that this is right. And its better to know whats wrong before you break maybe the last chance for success.

It doesnt matter anyway if he has some more months time. If he failed he cant escape. Trendon Shavers couldnt too. Bitcoin is a global community so where should he hide?

So no, i dont see a reason to rush. But if ukyo dont gives any info ill think about that again. I mean if there are legal reasons then for sure my lawyer will get some info.

I respectfully suggest that you are not going to get any information outside out of court case though.

It's been many months and he has said nothing of substance about what happened, and has lied (remember that for the first 2 months or so he said this was a technical problem solely), so I don't think he'll really offer all of bag-holders unless he is in some sort of trouble. Right now he's probably just sipping margaritas in Tahiti laughing with how he got away with this. It's pretty easy to ignore pms and emails. Especially if you did something illegal and don't fear any repercussions from having done so.

I think getting money out of court case would be difficult but at least a) it'd be nice Ukyo had some financial hardship over this (like the hundreds he stole from) instead of presumably benefiting immensely     b) in a court case at least we'd finally hear non-bullshit from him    c) there is a very good chance it is looking like he did criminal things here, and he should get some justice for this.

I can only speak for myself but I'd be willing to give my share of BTC claimed to a court case and lawyers. Maybe all of his assets are only $500,000 out of the 5 million owed. But if more of us 'signed over' our 10% return (or whatever it is) of our lost money to go to the lawyers fees I'd much prefer that than nothing happening and the money being gone, which is likely what's going to happen with further inaction.

As I guy with a measly 1 btc in this though it is up to you bigger bag holders to decide what you are going to though, of course. I do recommend doing anything though, I think finally, now months later, people are finally starting to face up to the fact they are highly unlikely to get any money back from Ukyo. He currently has hardly anything to fear, and is living comfortably off of his thievery, so has little motivation to return his stolen proceeds.

In fact it seems he owes around 8000BTC. Thats 5 Million USD. I dont know what you think ukyo owns but i highly doubt its even 10% of that amount.
And thats not the only thing. You dont have a clue what happened. So its open if you can charge ukyo personally. Because only if he made something criminial you can hope to get his personal belongings. Its different for ukyo loan most probably, because it was a personal loan as far as i know. But before you can seize ukyo's private riches, which i doubt exist, you need to proof that he made something criminal. Otherwise its only a problem of the company weexchange, not of the ceo. I mean it would be cool when CEO's would have to pay for errors but you know thats not the case when CEO's fail. The same goes for politicians.

Thats why we need information first.