They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.
You really don't understand the economics of Bitcoin mining, do you...
Topic: Bitmain Announces the Antminer R4 and APW5 Power Supply, Designed for Silence - page 44. (Read 84827 times)
August 28, 2016, 01:46:52 PM
You really don't understand the economics of Bitcoin mining, do you...
August 28, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
@philipma1957 -
1. You are right about GPU mining being Bitmain's competition. But it's not something they are going to worry about. Takes a lot more effort and tech skill to cobble together and run Eth miners vs. plug and play (almost) Antminers.
2. Difficulty - if you look historically I think you will see that in the last 2-3 days of the 14 day cycle the total hashrate dips. I often wondered if the big farms earn more by turning their miners off on day 13-14, letting the difficulty drop, then cranking them up on day 1 of the new cycle. I am not a math major and won't attempt to figure this out. But I do think there is something to it, for no other reason than hashrate often dips prior to the diff change.
And by shutting down for a day or two I be they can get some wicked maintenance and upgrades done.
1. You are right about GPU mining being Bitmain's competition. But it's not something they are going to worry about. Takes a lot more effort and tech skill to cobble together and run Eth miners vs. plug and play (almost) Antminers.
2. Difficulty - if you look historically I think you will see that in the last 2-3 days of the 14 day cycle the total hashrate dips. I often wondered if the big farms earn more by turning their miners off on day 13-14, letting the difficulty drop, then cranking them up on day 1 of the new cycle. I am not a math major and won't attempt to figure this out. But I do think there is something to it, for no other reason than hashrate often dips prior to the diff change.
And by shutting down for a day or two I be they can get some wicked maintenance and upgrades done.
August 28, 2016, 02:40:51 PM
So about 24 hours to go.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.
Okay lets say there is 1000 hash power in the world of which 500 is yours. so you have 50% the hash power in the world.
lets say you add 500 more now you are at 1000 hash power but your % of the world is only 67%
500/1000 = ½ or 50.0%
1000/1500 = ⅔ or 66.7%
so if you were earning ½ the blocks each day say 72 blocks
you now earn ⅔ the blocks each day say 96 blocks
this is an extra 24 blocks but you double your power use to do this.
so only a moron does this on a big scale as he is mining against himself.
What the big scale guy does within the 14 day period is spike the rate and get a lot of blocks then back off and get less blocks.
He seeks to never jump the rate much but gets some real big block days within the network.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.
bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income
you would be right if bitmaintech was smaller the 10% of the mining gear but they are not.
It is just good business on their part to do this the way I think they do. Vs your idea that it is simple variance.
It spikes every diff period over and over and over with a consistent repetition and that my friend is not variance .
I understand the concept, but i tink theres a few issues, namely the example of 50%, and adding 50% more to the network. Bitmain controls somewhere in the 10-20% range, and probably pays a very small bulk electricty rate with a "minting cost" of <$350/BTC (considering hardware depreciation/resale). even if they reduced thier own btc/kwh efficiency by adding hashrate, there would probably still be a net gain to profitability.
Im sure there could be some strategic hashrate movements (perhaps to altcoins instead of simply offline) when the difficulty undegoes large adjustments, but 90%+ of the difficulty swings are purely variance.
August 28, 2016, 12:59:58 PM
So about 24 hours to go.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.
Okay lets say there is 1000 hash power in the world of which 500 is yours. so you have 50% the hash power in the world.
lets say you add 500 more now you are at 1000 hash power but your % of the world is only 67%
500/1000 = ½ or 50.0%
1000/1500 = ⅔ or 66.7%
so if you were earning ½ the blocks each day say 72 blocks
you now earn ⅔ the blocks each day say 96 blocks
this is an extra 24 blocks but you double your power use to do this.
so only a moron does this on a big scale as he is mining against himself.
What the big scale guy does within the 14 day period is spike the rate and get a lot of blocks then back off and get less blocks.
He seeks to never jump the rate much but gets some real big block days within the network.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.
bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income
you would be right if bitmaintech was smaller the 10% of the mining gear but they are not.
It is just good business on their part to do this the way I think they do. Vs your idea that it is simple variance.
It spikes every diff period over and over and over with a consistent repetition and that my friend is not variance .
August 28, 2016, 10:04:22 AM
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.
bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income
August 28, 2016, 09:37:28 AM
So about 24 hours to go.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.
August 28, 2016, 08:56:15 AM
So about 24 hours to go.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %
The red line is right about matched to last jump.
We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.
August 28, 2016, 05:20:43 AM
make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.
what electric rate do you have (curious) me at 14c kwh (11c kwh winter) it is not likely I will get one with more then 1 year ROI at this point. (if it is around 1.3k with psu)
remember I don't mine for ROI my power is kind of free but no power is free some one pays some how but i do pay the bill form time to time as needed and right now with all fees 11 Cents per kwh, it may or may not go up in Nov, my set rate expires . mine is 11 cents all year long but the power company all ways fines ways to screw us.
how can anyone base a true ROI on something that's not even priced yet, won't that depend on the cost of the miner , unless your excluding the price for now .
I'm willing to bet this will be priced at or around 1000 bucks USD .
Basically,miners nowadays buy a miner & mine to get some BTC & the cost of power,if you pay for it,is just a BTC conversion tactic
Much better than buying BTC on an exchange,no real fee's.But it does take awhile anymore to get all the BTC wrung out of your investment
August 28, 2016, 02:08:18 AM
make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.
what electric rate do you have (curious) me at 14c kwh (11c kwh winter) it is not likely I will get one with more then 1 year ROI at this point. (if it is around 1.3k with psu)
remember I don't mine for ROI my power is kind of free but no power is free some one pays some how but i do pay the bill form time to time as needed and right now with all fees 11 Cents per kwh, it may or may not go up in Nov, my set rate expires . mine is 11 cents all year long but the power company all ways fines ways to screw us.
how can anyone base a true ROI on something that's not even priced yet, won't that depend on the cost of the miner , unless your excluding the price for now .
I'm willing to bet this will be priced at or around 1000 bucks USD .
August 28, 2016, 02:00:56 AM
make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.
what electric rate do you have (curious) me at 14c kwh (11c kwh winter) it is not likely I will get one with more then 1 year ROI at this point. (if it is around 1.3k with psu)
August 28, 2016, 01:49:19 AM
make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.
I'll bet it sells for around 1k or a little less , so I'll stay with GPU's . yea agree that's someything to worry about ...
I'll bet it sells for around 1k or a little less , so I'll stay with GPU's . yea agree that's someything to worry about ...
August 27, 2016, 07:18:45 PM
Well the www.coindesk.com article below says that it will take 391 days to ROI for a unit with the included PSU. OUCH!
(of course as previously mentioned in a post you don't get one the BTC price is gonna go to $750 or $1000 ..that is how BTC and crypto work. (BTC: your merciless bitch) (tm)..ie missed boat action)
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-release-new-bitcoin-miner-bid-attract-hobbyists/
Then again winter is coming ...I could justify the 'toy' for the 'space heater' qualities....(that would be me in denial have 6000w in basement now with Titans...grasping at straws)
I mean where was this thing at this price BEFORE halving? (damn it)
Looking at the above..there is a reason I am only running scrypt miners......this unit...(if ROI above is correct) is not attractive in USA with ave electric price of 15c kwh. (me 14c kwh)
Well anyway its pretty. Truth be told IF they made it with a ONE year warranty I'd get one and just call it a 'toy' and hope for a price pump on BTC as my justification. BUT 90 days
less than ideal imho. But probably the way of the world now.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
Phil,
You have a write-up or pictures of your GPU setup?
Pm sent
August 27, 2016, 07:15:46 PM
Well the www.coindesk.com article below says that it will take 391 days to ROI for a unit with the included PSU. OUCH!
(of course as previously mentioned in a post you don't get one the BTC price is gonna go to $750 or $1000 ..that is how BTC and crypto work. (BTC: your merciless bitch) (tm)..ie missed boat action)
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-release-new-bitcoin-miner-bid-attract-hobbyists/
Then again winter is coming ...I could justify the 'toy' for the 'space heater' qualities....(that would be me in denial have 6000w in basement now with Titans...grasping at straws)
I mean where was this thing at this price BEFORE halving? (damn it)
Looking at the above..there is a reason I am only running scrypt miners......this unit...(if ROI above is correct) is not attractive in USA with ave electric price of 15c kwh. (me 14c kwh)
Well anyway its pretty. Truth be told IF they made it with a ONE year warranty I'd get one and just call it a 'toy' and hope for a price pump on BTC as my justification. BUT 90 days
less than ideal imho. But probably the way of the world now.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
Phil,
You have a write-up or pictures of your GPU setup?
Careful Phil,DO NOT put GPU mining pics in the "Pictures of your Mining Rigs" thread...Mikestang will get ck on your azz,he is the bitcointalk police in training
August 27, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
Well the www.coindesk.com article below says that it will take 391 days to ROI for a unit with the included PSU. OUCH!
(of course as previously mentioned in a post you don't get one the BTC price is gonna go to $750 or $1000 ..that is how BTC and crypto work. (BTC: your merciless bitch) (tm)..ie missed boat action)
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-release-new-bitcoin-miner-bid-attract-hobbyists/
Then again winter is coming ...I could justify the 'toy' for the 'space heater' qualities....(that would be me in denial have 6000w in basement now with Titans...grasping at straws)
I mean where was this thing at this price BEFORE halving? (damn it)
Looking at the above..there is a reason I am only running scrypt miners......this unit...(if ROI above is correct) is not attractive in USA with ave electric price of 15c kwh. (me 14c kwh)
Well anyway its pretty. Truth be told IF they made it with a ONE year warranty I'd get one and just call it a 'toy' and hope for a price pump on BTC as my justification. BUT 90 days
less than ideal imho. But probably the way of the world now.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
Phil,
You have a write-up or pictures of your GPU setup?
August 27, 2016, 06:41:29 PM
Very good news for them, who has cheap electricity and is going to mine at home but it would be good, if this miner ant antminer 9 would be announced together but yes, I know it's because marketing.
Do you have another antminer R series?
Do you have another antminer R series?
legendary
Activity: 1848
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My AR-15 ID's itself as a toaster. Want breakfast?
August 27, 2016, 06:20:35 PM
So they're moving backwards, 14, 12.9, 11.8, 8.6 TH/s. Will they take PayPal for this? :-)
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
I have cheap power at the solar array
I have expensive power in my house
so called summer rates
with 18 cent price in my house between extra ac and the summer rate hike. I earn 850 usd in eth coin after power 500 usd in a month.
So I paid off 8 gpus maybe nine gpus since april.
Asic mined BTC is in trouble. GPU mined ETH convert to BTC makes far more economic sense then buying an asic miner.
Bitmaintech's biggest competitor is the GPU pc.
Well Put. I think I may be personally done with ASIC's...
Only if they are free or trade... I wont take them anymore. My friend is lucky that I am still hosting his S7 at my house where I get free power. After 6 mo of solo minig with no luck, its been on altcoin or nicehash mining, and has only netted ~340USD in its lifetime. He was one of the unlucky people to buy a used one when bitmain started dropping their prices like a rock.... he paid $2100 when I could buy a brand new unit for just under $700.... Tis the only reason I still keep it online for him; also given the fact its a 50% split from free power.
August 27, 2016, 05:54:48 PM
So they're moving backwards, 14, 12.9, 11.8, 8.6 TH/s. Will they take PayPal for this? :-)
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
I have cheap power at the solar array
I have expensive power in my house
so called summer rates
with 18 cent price in my house between extra ac and the summer rate hike. I earn 850 usd in eth coin after power 500 usd in a month.
So I paid off 8 gpus maybe nine gpus since april.
Asic mined BTC is in trouble. GPU mined ETH convert to BTC makes far more economic sense then buying an asic miner.
Bitmaintech's biggest competitor is the GPU pc.
August 27, 2016, 10:39:33 AM
So they're moving backwards, 14, 12.9, 11.8, 8.6 TH/s. Will they take PayPal for this? :-)
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
LOL yeah the math is brutal.
August 27, 2016, 02:59:08 AM
hum, very interesting ....
August 27, 2016, 12:35:44 AM
Well the www.coindesk.com article below says that it will take 391 days to ROI for a unit with the included PSU. OUCH!
(of course as previously mentioned in a post you don't get one the BTC price is gonna go to $750 or $1000 ..that is how BTC and crypto work. (BTC: your merciless bitch) (tm)..ie missed boat action)
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-release-new-bitcoin-miner-bid-attract-hobbyists/
Then again winter is coming ...I could justify the 'toy' for the 'space heater' qualities....(that would be me in denial have 6000w in basement now with Titans...grasping at straws)
I mean where was this thing at this price BEFORE halving? (damn it)
Looking at the above..there is a reason I am only running scrypt miners......this unit...(if ROI above is correct) is not attractive in USA with ave electric price of 15c kwh. (me 14c kwh)
Well anyway its pretty. Truth be told IF they made it with a ONE year warranty I'd get one and just call it a 'toy' and hope for a price pump on BTC as my justification. BUT 90 days
less than ideal imho. But probably the way of the world now.
yeah it is why I just purchased more gpu's
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