Bitmain Antminer S6 and S7 Speculation - page 9.

philipma1957

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Quote from: sergio on July 02, 2015, 05:44:14 AM

Quote from: Minerjoe on March 31, 2015, 02:09:16 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on March 26, 2015, 04:32:08 PM

Quote from: Minerjoe on March 26, 2015, 04:30:46 PM

Any ETA on S6? At least speculative?

I'm still thinking mid to late April.

Well, with the current BTC price, I m really not sure how profitable for them is to develop new miners. The profit margin s really, really low.

Not really. In fact when the S5 was first released it was sold for about $300 USD, but shortly after Bitmain got news that spoondolies was out of the hardware bussiness they jacked up the price to $340, well as of now the S5 costs $360, growing difficultly and a growin price.

I am sure at $300 they were making a profit, so to say the profit magin is really low it is not accurate, doing basic math you can easily conclude that the profit margin is over 20%.

profit margin is really really low for indepent miners, not for the hardware vendors.

.

I agree with this part in bold.

I would argue that hardware builders have tighter margins then you think.
I would also argue that bitmaintech keeping price at 360 or more is not the issue.
I actually think they showed longer term thinking bty doing that.
If they sold gear dead cheap at 250 or so I think it would have lowered price of coins.
When they did the price war with sp-tech coins dropped under 200 usd around 180 in January 2015.

Our problem is exchange failures and lack of demand for btc by the general public.

sergio

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Quote from: Minerjoe on March 31, 2015, 02:09:16 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on March 26, 2015, 04:32:08 PM

Quote from: Minerjoe on March 26, 2015, 04:30:46 PM

Any ETA on S6? At least speculative?

I'm still thinking mid to late April.

Well, with the current BTC price, I m really not sure how profitable for them is to develop new miners. The profit margin s really, really low.

Not really. In fact when the S5 was first released it was sold for about $300 USD, but shortly after Bitmain got news that spoondolies was out of the hardware bussiness they jacked up the price to $340, well as of now the S5 costs $360, growing difficultly and a growin price.

I am sure at $300 they were making a profit, so to say the profit magin is really low it is not accurate, doing basic math you can easily conclude that the profit margin is over 20%.

profit margin is really really low for indepent miners, not for the hardware vendors.

.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

There has been more buzz on the s-7 so maybe it comes out in late July.

philipma1957

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Quote from: mavericklm on June 28, 2015, 05:59:13 PM

it would be interesting if miners producers have/will have a deal to sell at higher price, not like spondoolies vs bitmain, sp20 vs s5
they will upgrade, we will upgrade slower...
diff will go up slowly and they will have higher % of the network, and ~ constant % between themselves....

I think this is what they will do for the time being. It also is safer for them with the ½ ing coming up.

mavericklm

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it would be interesting if miners producers have/will have a deal to sell at higher price, not like spondoolies vs bitmain, sp20 vs s5
they will upgrade, we will upgrade slower...
diff will go up slowly and they will have higher % of the network, and ~ constant % between themselves....

philipma1957

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Quote from: tripppn on June 26, 2015, 07:37:20 PM

I have a real love/hate feeling about Bitmain's keep quiet till it's ready to ship way of doing things. I have to respect the fact that they don't do pre orders, at least no ones that are more then a couple weeks from shipping and they are always at least very close to shipping on time.

On the other hand I want to know what those guys are up to... Huh

The suspense is killer

well sfards has floated 1129 so they intentionally priced high and will self mine for a while. much like avalon did.

once again bitmaintech still has very little incentive to sell us s-6's or s-7's.

They will slowly replace all their s-5's with s-6's and s-7's and keep selling s-5's at a price just a bit too high too buy.

Why it is good business for them to do so.

Very slow diff growth works for them if they are upgrading s-5's to s-6 or s-7 gear.

Just follow what they have done since the s-3 came out.

tripppn

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I have a real love/hate feeling about Bitmain's keep quiet till it's ready to ship way of doing things. I have to respect the fact that they don't do pre orders, at least no ones that are more then a couple weeks from shipping and they are always at least very close to shipping on time.

On the other hand I want to know what those guys are up to... Huh

The suspense is killer

dmwardjr

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: unamis76 on June 25, 2015, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: gallery2000 on June 25, 2015, 12:15:20 PM

There will be no S6 or S7. Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

Don't believe gallery2000's hype.

I personally know of efforts by Bitmain to sell the new equipment coming out at a pretty reasonable price but once it earns your payment you give it back to them (you retain bonuses it earns) this may be the new model they want to start and possibly still selling large bulk to farms.

Group buys may begin to be the norm for home miners.

philipma1957

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: unamis76 on June 25, 2015, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: gallery2000 on June 25, 2015, 12:15:20 PM

There will be no S6 or S7. Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

Yeah I am not sure what BK is but I don't see how it could be Bankruptcy weren't they making bank? Like Hashnest is tons of profit and they hash at least like 25% of the network.

gallery2000 has had some wild threads and wild posts. he is not what I consider a reliable poster.

unamis76

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Quote from: gallery2000 on June 25, 2015, 12:15:20 PM

There will be no S6 or S7. Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

Bankruptcy? Can you please link that thread?

mavericklm

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wish s7 will have same cooling and same holes and screws so i can upgrade to c3!

gallery2000

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There will be no S6 or S7. Bitmain just declared BK on a chinese forum.

philipma1957

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think Bitmain is just holding their tech, no reason to sell the new product and raise difficulty when they can mine on it themselves and wait for competition to sell theirs first. Once a competitor puts out a new better than S5 miner than we will see the release of the new Bitmain products.

yeah this is very likely true. there is zero need to grow hash rate unless price jumps.

I feel once sfards pushes out gear the s-6 and or s-7 will come out to put it in place. until then not much change.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: sidehack on June 24, 2015, 05:17:51 AM

AMHash, or ASICMiner? Far as I know they're two different enterprises, if not exactly two different companies.

So are you suspecting that Bitmain's next gen chip is actually a repackaged BE300? Or that the BM1384 ripped it off? The BE300 was in engineering samples when the BM1384 was already being installed on miners, and also had more performance and a substantially different protocol. I guess it's possible that Bitmain might have taken hash core design from BE300 data and added on their own interface logic for data and comms, but I doubt that went into the BM1384 given the timing. The next chip, maybe, but then why would it take them eight months to pull it off?

Would be interesting to know for sure, but I would be surprised to find Bitmain swiped BE300 IP.

Sorry, you're right... edited AMHash to ASICMiner...

sidehack

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AMHash, or ASICMiner? Far as I know they're two different enterprises, if not exactly two different companies.

So are you suspecting that Bitmain's next gen chip is actually a repackaged BE300? Or that the BM1384 ripped it off? The BE300 was in engineering samples when the BM1384 was already being installed on miners, and also had more performance and a substantially different protocol. I guess it's possible that Bitmain might have taken hash core design from BE300 data and added on their own interface logic for data and comms, but I doubt that went into the BM1384 given the timing. The next chip, maybe, but then why would it take them eight months to pull it off?

Would be interesting to know for sure, but I would be surprised to find Bitmain swiped BE300 IP.

RealMalatesta

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In all this speculation about S6 and S7, I'd like to get some information from Bitmain first.

Since Friedcat has disappeared, rumours are in the air that Bitmain and/or persons who are deeply involved in Bitmain's management had been on the board of ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner.

Furthermore, the rumour goes that Bitmain had therefore firsthand access to specifications from ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner chips, i.e. that Bitmain was able to produce chips which were designed for ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner before ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner was able to produce them.

These rumours are serious, and so I think it would be vital to know if

a) Bitmain was on the ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner-board
b) any and which officer/emploee was on the ~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner-board
c) Bitmain and/or any of its officers/employees had thus access to any of the designs from Friedcat/~~AMhash~~ ASICMiner

IF any of these questions is answered with "Yes", I believe it may take some looong time until S6/S7 come out.

dmwardjr

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Quote from: sidehack on April 05, 2015, 03:13:44 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 02:54:45 AM

Quote from: sidehack on April 05, 2015, 12:51:35 AM

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself. I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do. I have not taken the time to research it very well. 0.21 watts a GH would be great. If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/antminer-s5-1155ghoverclock-potential-in-stock-0319gh-051wgh-902305

There is an efficiency chart in the first post of the thread about miners with that chip, which has been on the front page of the hardware forum for four months. That's what I calculate off of.

Sorry, I haven't taken time to do much research on that chip along with the math. Thanks for the link!

dmwardjr

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Quote from: notlist3d on April 05, 2015, 01:18:50 PM

Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 09:57:15 AM

Quote from: Rabinovitch on April 05, 2015, 04:25:20 AM

Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 02:50:35 AM

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of. How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there. Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished." Either case is not good. If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!! A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

With hardware companies doing producing in batches. What choice do they have it does not sell out?

In a perfect world they would leave it new in box after a small test. But with not selling them all I think it's understandable they run them. That way if they don't see them and have to put it in a cheaper batch they don't lose money.

I don't think there is a company that can take the hit on just storing boxes and boxes of miners after paying for them to be made.

I believe I would have to agree with you there. Which could also explain the price lowering maybe.

sidehack

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Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 02:54:45 AM

Quote from: sidehack on April 05, 2015, 12:51:35 AM

You know the BM1384 can do under 0.35W/GH, right? I worked over some numbers a month ago speculating S2 upgrade kits, with suitable chip density they could make a 3.6TH miner off a 1KW PSU with the same power density (and therefore same fan volume) as the S2 if they really felt like it. It's possible to get 0.21W/GH from 28nm if done right, and pretty easy to do with 22nm.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are others on bitcointalk.org who understand engineering and design about hardware and chips more so than myself. I was not quite sure what the BM1384 could do. I have not taken the time to research it very well. 0.21 watts a GH would be great. If this is the case, we might see Farm Wars back in business again and difficulty climbing again.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/antminer-s5-1155ghoverclock-potential-in-stock-0319gh-051wgh-902305

There is an efficiency chart in the first post of the thread about miners with that chip, which has been on the front page of the hardware forum for four months. That's what I calculate off of.

notlist3d

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Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 09:57:15 AM

Quote from: Rabinovitch on April 05, 2015, 04:25:20 AM

Quote from: dmwardjr on April 05, 2015, 02:50:35 AM

I have not seen nor heard of these rumors you speak of. How do you know the rigs received in Russia were used rigs?

First, inside many of S5 there was a lot of dust.

Second, if there were more or less large batches of S5s we should get the same versions of boards at the same time. Guys from bits.media told about v1.5, v1.7, v1.9 they received several days ago. IMHO hardware revisions should be sold according to the rule "first revision produced - first sold". So since all HW versions of hashing blades being sold these days, we can conclude that they all together were laying somewhere in Bitmain's data center and hashing (collecting the dust...), and now they sell it out by a "first HW version that came to hand" scheme.

I can see what you mean there. Either they were hashing or they could be "refurbished." Either case is not good. If one pays for a "new" unit, they want a "new" unit!!! A used or refurbished unit should be at a used or refurbished price.

With hardware companies doing producing in batches. What choice do they have it does not sell out?

In a perfect world they would leave it new in box after a small test. But with not selling them all I think it's understandable they run them. That way if they don't see them and have to put it in a cheaper batch they don't lose money.

I don't think there is a company that can take the hit on just storing boxes and boxes of miners after paying for them to be made.

Topic: Bitmain Antminer S6 and S7 Speculation - page 9. (Read 33553 times)